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Post by PGAT on May 7, 2024 14:48:50 GMT
I’ve had an idea. Instead of extending the SL5 to Sutton, divert the 119 away from the Colonnades and extend to Sutton in place of the 407. This would allow the Caterham leg to be cut to West Croydon and the 264 would be extended to the Colonnades freeing up stand space there
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Post by TB123 on May 7, 2024 14:57:15 GMT
I’ve had an idea. Instead of extending the SL5 to Sutton, divert the 119 away from the Colonnades and extend to Sutton in place of the 407. This would allow the Caterham leg to be cut to West Croydon and the 264 would be extended to the Colonnades freeing up stand space there I don't mind that idea, but: A - Fiveways and Purley Way would lose it's direct bus to East Croydon, a big local railhead B - wouldn't you be creating the same issues the 407 already has, a long trunk route crossing every artery? |
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Post by vjaska on May 7, 2024 15:00:07 GMT
I’ve had an idea. Instead of extending the SL5 to Sutton, divert the 119 away from the Colonnades and extend to Sutton in place of the 407. This would allow the Caterham leg to be cut to West Croydon and the 264 would be extended to the Colonnades freeing up stand space there The 119's max running time is already at 82 minutes so I can't see an diversion to Sutton being great for the reliability of the route. Something like the 403 would be better able to take an extension to Sutton in comparison. |
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Post by PGAT on May 7, 2024 15:05:07 GMT
I’ve had an idea. Instead of extending the SL5 to Sutton, divert the 119 away from the Colonnades and extend to Sutton in place of the 407. This would allow the Caterham leg to be cut to West Croydon and the 264 would be extended to the Colonnades freeing up stand space there I don't mind that idea, but: A - Fiveways and Purley Way would lose it's direct bus to East Croydon, a big local railhead B - wouldn't you be creating the same issues the 407 already has, a long trunk route crossing every artery? A - fair point, but only a couple of stops would miss out and it's in close proximity to Waddon station where the new 119 would go B - potentially, but at least it can be justified by more end-to-end journeys as well as providing the Croydon-Sutton corridor with a new 24 hour service |
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Post by TB123 on May 7, 2024 15:12:30 GMT
I don't mind that idea, but: A - Fiveways and Purley Way would lose it's direct bus to East Croydon, a big local railhead B - wouldn't you be creating the same issues the 407 already has, a long trunk route crossing every artery? A - fair point, but only a couple of stops would miss out and it's in close proximity to Waddon station where the new 119 would go B - potentially, but at least it can be justified by more end-to-end journeys as well as providing the Croydon-Sutton corridor with a new 24 hour service The 410 already offers a link from that side of Fiveways to East Croydon. I understand both your points, but I think it would end up being a downgrade overall. I personally feel the 407 should probably be split at West Croydon, becoming Croydon to Caterham - and the 403 should cover the Sutton section. The 154 going to 24/7 operation would be the best way of providing a Croydon-Sutton night service. I personally don't want to see the SL5 extended across to Sutton unless it is *in addition* to the SL7 and a Croydon-Sutton A232 stopping service of sorts, although I'd have less objections to the 410 being removed from this section if the SL5 was to be extended in an instance like this, as I do understand the value of a service linking the 3 biggest towns - perhaps it could run straight across via Wallington town centre avoiding Carshalton Village. |
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Post by SILENCED on May 7, 2024 15:20:07 GMT
I’ve had an idea. Instead of extending the SL5 to Sutton, divert the 119 away from the Colonnades and extend to Sutton in place of the 407. This would allow the Caterham leg to be cut to West Croydon and the 264 would be extended to the Colonnades freeing up stand space there I don't mind that idea, but: A - Fiveways and Purley Way would lose it's direct bus to East Croydon, a big local railhead B - wouldn't you be creating the same issues the 407 already has, a long trunk route crossing every artery? If the 119 was to be diverted, surely the 194 would be then natural replacement, as it was then original route out there, and share a reasonable amount of common routing to the 119 |
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Post by TB123 on May 7, 2024 15:21:29 GMT
I don't mind that idea, but: A - Fiveways and Purley Way would lose it's direct bus to East Croydon, a big local railhead B - wouldn't you be creating the same issues the 407 already has, a long trunk route crossing every artery? If the 119 was to be diverted, surely the 194 would be then natural replacement, as it was then original route out there, and share a reasonable amount of common routing to the 119 Indeed, that would not be too bad a replacement. |
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Post by SILENCED on May 7, 2024 15:31:16 GMT
If the 119 was to be diverted, surely the 194 would be then natural replacement, as it was then original route out there, and share a reasonable amount of common routing to the 119 Indeed, that would not be too bad a replacement. Overall, not a fan of chopping the SL7 ... would make the journeys I would do untenable, meaning SWT it would be. Also not a fan of the N154 idea. It serves weird parts of Sutton and Carshalton, missing out the main bits of Sutton, Carshalton and Wallington. If a route needs to be extended from Croydon to Sutton, 403 or 412 seem the obvious candidates. Alternatively the 198, with something else doing the London Road - Thornton Heath section. Personally I like the route the 410 takes, and wouldn't really want it touched, although I have regularly seen the idea touted on here. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 7, 2024 15:43:24 GMT
Fair enough in that case, although does bring up the case now as to why it's shown as a Stratford to Chingford route on the maps. I personally think that structure would make more sense - an SL 307 and an SL 97 - whatever happens, it'll be interesting to see Hopefully this time the consultation will be a bit longer and more time spent analysing the results to look into all the suggestions. It's a shame the Richmond to Wimbledon one can't be longer and continue to North Cheam to take pressure off the 93 and it would interchange with the SL7. Stops could be South Wimbledon, Morden Road Tram, Morden Stn, Morden South Stn, Woodstock, North Cheam Queen Victoria. |
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Post by PGAT on May 7, 2024 15:50:46 GMT
Indeed, that would not be too bad a replacement. Overall, not a fan of chopping the SL7 ... would make the journeys I would do untenable, meaning SWT it would be. Also not a fan of the N154 idea. It serves weird parts of Sutton and Carshalton, missing out the main bits of Sutton, Carshalton and Wallington. If a route needs to be extended from Croydon to Sutton, 403 or 412 seem the obvious candidates. Alternatively the 198, with something else doing the London Road - Thornton Heath section. Personally I like the route the 410 takes, and wouldn't really want it touched, although I have regularly seen the idea touted on here. I largely agree with what you are saying although isn't the rationale of splitting the 407 partly because end-to-end journeys are very poorly used? Obviously reliability is a key element here as well but surely it would be wise to create handy new links as well. The 403 and 412 for sure go through quieter roads with better reliability but that also means an extension adds nothing to the table |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 7, 2024 15:53:35 GMT
Indeed, that would not be too bad a replacement. Overall, not a fan of chopping the SL7 ... would make the journeys I would do untenable, meaning SWT it would be. Also not a fan of the N154 idea. It serves weird parts of Sutton and Carshalton, missing out the main bits of Sutton, Carshalton and Wallington. If a route needs to be extended from Croydon to Sutton, 403 or 412 seem the obvious candidates. Alternatively the 198, with something else doing the London Road - Thornton Heath section. Personally I like the route the 410 takes, and wouldn't really want it touched, although I have regularly seen the idea touted on here. I agree about the N154. To me the area would suit a totally different route at night that doesn't necessarily mirror a day route. Maybe now the N155 is less frequent it could run along St Helier Ave, through Sutton, along Carshalton Road, High Street, Parkgate Road and terminate at Wallington Shotfield. Alternatively do it in reverse like the N44 used to starting at Sutton then to Rosehill then onto Morden. Could do an N554 or N557 like the N550/551 and soon N518. |
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Post by SILENCED on May 7, 2024 15:55:01 GMT
Overall, not a fan of chopping the SL7 ... would make the journeys I would do untenable, meaning SWT it would be. Also not a fan of the N154 idea. It serves weird parts of Sutton and Carshalton, missing out the main bits of Sutton, Carshalton and Wallington. If a route needs to be extended from Croydon to Sutton, 403 or 412 seem the obvious candidates. Alternatively the 198, with something else doing the London Road - Thornton Heath section. Personally I like the route the 410 takes, and wouldn't really want it touched, although I have regularly seen the idea touted on here. I largely agree with what you are saying although isn't the rationale of splitting the 407 partly because end-to-end journeys are very poorly used? Obviously reliability is a key element here as well but surely it would be wise to create handy new links as well. The 403 and 412 for sure go through quieter roads with better reliability but that also means an extension adds nothing to the table I don't disagree with you, it is just where will these routes terminate in Croydon without any other alterations? |
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Post by PGAT on May 7, 2024 16:09:25 GMT
I largely agree with what you are saying although isn't the rationale of splitting the 407 partly because end-to-end journeys are very poorly used? Obviously reliability is a key element here as well but surely it would be wise to create handy new links as well. The 403 and 412 for sure go through quieter roads with better reliability but that also means an extension adds nothing to the table I don't disagree with you, it is just where will these routes terminate in Croydon without any other alterations? Alright this is probably a dead end then, let's shift gears to night buses. I definitely agree that N154 is not the way to go, I believe it had a weeknight service pre-covid but I'm not sure if that was well used. The route it takes is quite cumbersome, and the backstreets of Roundshaw, Carshalton Beeches and Benhilton frustratingly take the title of being 24/7 while their respective Wallington, Carshalton and Sutton high streets miss out. Meanwhile the 157 is more direct and actually goes through the high streets, serves a hospital and takes the more direct route to Morden. I also think the SL7 is a good alternative provided it doesn't get cut back |
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Post by routew15 on May 7, 2024 16:57:32 GMT
That would definitely be a better place to split the routes - but again, there is no stand space at Enfield as well, so at least one route would have to be moved out of Little Park Gardens, as Enfield Chase can only have 2 buses standing there, and the old W10 stand on Cecil Road would not be able to fit both express routes. If the route could use parts of the A406 and A12, it might help the reliability of the route if it is to be operated as one long route, although reliability during peak times can become extremely bad during peak times. I wonder if the Stratford portion could run to Chase Farm and the Harrow portion to the retail park as a way of getting around the stand issues and opening up some other links I feel the 317 would be a more likely candidate to send the Chase Farm if anything for the Stratford to Enfield route to be accommodated |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 122
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Post by ZiyQ on May 7, 2024 17:52:21 GMT
I wonder if the Stratford portion could run to Chase Farm and the Harrow portion to the retail park as a way of getting around the stand issues and opening up some other links I feel the 317 would be a more likely candidate to send the Chase Farm if anything for the Stratford to Enfield route to be accommodated Sending another route to Chase Farm might not create many new useful links, due to the 317 running along the dual carriageway A10 along most of its route and the (slightly) circuitous routing required to reach Chase Farm. Also with its 20-minute frequency, the 317 at most takes up one bus of stand space at any time, so stand space might be a problem if the Stratford to Enfield route is to be any more frequent than every 20 minutes. There are three possible routings that a 317 extension could take (the 313, W8 or 191/W8), although I'm not sure if the low bridge on Holtwhite's Hill is high enough to accommodate double deck Electroliners. It might be better to extend the 192 in that direction (provided it is cut somewhere on the Southern end). |
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