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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 19, 2024 8:00:51 GMT
This development makes routes SL5 & SL7 tenders even more intriguing to view. Firstly, if route SL5 becomes a Bromley - Sutton route then TFL have to make sure that becomes a double decker route. Secondly, on the operating aspect of these routes, If Go-Ahead retain route SL7 they should operate it from Sutton (A) garage by swapping route 154 into Croydon (C) garage. The extended route SL5 is definitely going to attract bids from big 3 South London operators I would assume.
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Post by danorak on Apr 19, 2024 8:03:23 GMT
Chances are that's a misprint on a hastily cobbled together map but it would be good to have that clarified.
Generally in favour of these with the usual caveats about better priority and good consultation to refine the proposals: the first batch were much improved by the process.
Some of the routes illustrate the limitations of the branding but I guess we're stuck with it!
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 19, 2024 8:08:51 GMT
I really like the Ealing-Kingston express route, Streatham to Eltham route express route, North Greenwich to Thamesmead express route, Wimbledon to Richmond express route proposals. Those 4 are the strongest ones from the whole Superloop 2 scheme. I like the Streatham to Eltham one too although just personally I think a more direct link from Streatham to Peckham would be useful. P13 goes round the houses. Maybe Streatham-Tulse Hill-Peckham-Lewisham then onto Eltham? Although the map doesn't state this location clearly I think the Streatham - Eltham route will go through Catford instead of Lewisham. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2024 8:17:06 GMT
Map featured. Who else has noticed that SL5/SL7 change at the bottom? 👀 Ominous. I guess that would then guarantee the SL7 to be electrified, as I think the electric options out there don't have enough range for the current SL7? I also wonder if the chance of Arriva retaining the SL5 would be slim, as I can't quite see Arriva stretching into Sutton? Arriva had the 407 for years and if the SL5 did become Sutton to Bromley then Arriva would be in a good place mid route. If its not a type then I think it might be a good thing. The SL7 would max be around 90 mins Sutton to Heathrow which is more manageable but I'd like to see a couple more stops added. The SL5 to Sutton being shorter could make more stops between Sutton and Croydon; Windsor Castle, Beddington Plough and maybe Waddon. Also I think the cross Croydon links may prove popular. Would also solve 2 Croydon stand space issues. I'm assuming it would approach Croydon from Sutton via the 407 to West Croydon then East Croydon on its way to Bromley. I wonder if this will be the nudge to get the 164 to Belmont with the Station used by the SL5. SL7 maybe at the bus garage. |
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 19, 2024 8:29:58 GMT
The proposed Superloop 2 routes, all subject to consultation, are: Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich ‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane Cue pages and pages of: - It should go here - It shouldn't go there - It should have just one more stop (cue 100 different suggestions, which if all implemented mean there is no longer a Superloop) - Comprehensive redesigns of the existing Superloop routes despite them being established and successful - Lots of "well I wouldn't do it like that" - Lots of "it's-all-an-election-bribe-does-Khan-take-us-for-idiots" This is true but it's a Bus Forum wouldn't expect anything else |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 19, 2024 8:31:49 GMT
I guess that would then guarantee the SL7 to be electrified, as I think the electric options out there don't have enough range for the current SL7? I also wonder if the chance of Arriva retaining the SL5 would be slim, as I can't quite see Arriva stretching into Sutton? Arriva had the 407 for years and if the SL5 did become Sutton to Bromley then Arriva would be in a good place mid route. If its not a type then I think it might be a good thing. The SL7 would max be around 90 mins Sutton to Heathrow which is more manageable but I'd like to see a couple more stops added. The SL5 to Sutton being shorter could make more stops between Sutton and Croydon; Windsor Castle, Beddington Plough and maybe Waddon. Also I think the cross Croydon links may prove popular. Would also solve 2 Croydon stand space issues. I'm assuming it would approach Croydon from Sutton via the 407 to West Croydon then East Croydon on its way to Bromley. I wonder if this will be the nudge to get the 164 to Belmont with the Station used by the SL5. SL7 maybe at the bus garage. There isn’t any space at the bus garage in Sutton for another route to stand. Given that the 627 is the only other route to use the Sutton police station stop and only in the morning the SL5/SL7 could both stand there. Worst case the Sutton Park Road stop used by the 151/213/413 could be converted to a stand for the SL5. |
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 19, 2024 8:32:50 GMT
I really like the Ealing-Kingston express route, Streatham to Eltham route express route, North Greenwich to Thamesmead express route, Wimbledon to Richmond express route proposals. Those 4 are the strongest ones from the whole Superloop 2 scheme. Having had another look the Barnet-Stratford seems to have a break in the loops at Chingford albeit the same colour so maybe this is two routes if so I think the Chingford to Stratford one would definitely be well used , I also think the North Greenwich to Thamesmead one is a very good idea and well needed . |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 19, 2024 8:42:26 GMT
I really like the Ealing-Kingston express route, Streatham to Eltham route express route, North Greenwich to Thamesmead express route, Wimbledon to Richmond express route proposals. Those 4 are the strongest ones from the whole Superloop 2 scheme. Having had another look the Barnet-Stratford seems to have a break in the loops at Chingford albeit the same colour so maybe this is two routes if so I think the Chingford to Stratford one would definitely be well used , I also think the North Greenwich to Thamesmead one is a very good idea and well needed . I would imagine it would be 2 routes. It would be rather inconvenient to have the route double run to serve Chingford Station. Stratford buses are always rammed though, whether it’s the 69,97,158 or 257 so this will definitely help out. |
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Post by WH241 on Apr 19, 2024 8:51:52 GMT
The proposed Superloop 2 routes, all subject to consultation, are: Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich ‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane Let's talk East London Barnet to Stratford ? Who would travel on such a long winded route ? A X97 Chingford to Stratford yes I could see that being well used but the Barnet to Chingford section ? Leytonstone to "South Havering" I'm assuming Rainham a X66 , Why would this be needed when the 66 runs the length of the A12 anyway and is pretty much Express ? I feel like he has someone looking on the fantasy thread on here , I can't really talk for the other parts of London but bar the "X97" which I could see being well used the rest for East London anyway looks like pie in the sky . Why not look at the busiest routes and have a Express along those lines such as a "X5" or "X25" regardless of Liz Line Newham is one of the most populated parts of England these routes would be a lot more welcome than a X66 along a already quickish route . The 66 might used the A12 but I think it’s painful slow. Even driving along the A12 is a nightmare with lots of slow 2 lane sections. |
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Post by WH241 on Apr 19, 2024 8:57:22 GMT
Is there any way of merging the two Superloop threads? Just a suggestion!
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Post by londonbuses on Apr 19, 2024 9:08:30 GMT
I'll comment on the new routes later, but looking at the SL5/SL7 change, it won't be popular but it does seem well thought out (providing the SL5 is decked!) - it is probably a necessary change, both for reliability purposes and to allow the SL7 to use electric buses. Croydon to Kingston is faster via Clapham Junction or Wimbledon, so losing the direct bus link is not the end of the world.
I would imagine both the SL5 and SL7 will terminate at Sutton Station (with the 164 extended down to Belmont as planned), which is ideal as it allows the SL7 to connect to the trains to West Croydon (which are faster than the existing SL7), and allows it to still serve its existing stops at the Police Station and the Post Office. There is enough stand space for the SL5, SL7 and 470 so that won't be an issue, and the changes should solve the stand issues in Croydon and maybe allow the 407 split to go ahead.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2024 9:12:28 GMT
I'll comment on the new routes later, but looking at the SL5/SL7 change, it won't be popular but it does seem well thought out (providing the SL5 is decked!) - it is probably a necessary change, both for reliability purposes and to allow the SL7 to use electric buses. Croydon to Kingston is faster via Clapham Junction or Wimbledon, so losing the direct bus link is not the end of the world. I would imagine both the SL5 and SL7 will terminate at Sutton Station (with the 164 extended down to Belmont as planned), which is ideal as it allows the SL7 to connect to the trains to West Croydon (which are faster than the existing SL7), and allows it to still serve its existing stops at the Police Station and the Post Office. There is enough stand space for the SL5, SL7 and 470 so that won't be an issue, and the changes should solve the stand issues in Croydon and maybe allow the 407 split to go ahead. The 470 if need be could even use that old Sutton Court Road stand the 151 used to use as being only every 30 mins with Didi SDs it could easily fit and not block the road. |
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Post by borneobus on Apr 19, 2024 9:21:41 GMT
I'll comment on the new routes later, but looking at the SL5/SL7 change, it won't be popular but it does seem well thought out (providing the SL5 is decked!) - it is probably a necessary change, both for reliability purposes and to allow the SL7 to use electric buses. Croydon to Kingston is faster via Clapham Junction or Wimbledon, so losing the direct bus link is not the end of the world. I would imagine both the SL5 and SL7 will terminate at Sutton Station (with the 164 extended down to Belmont as planned), which is ideal as it allows the SL7 to connect to the trains to West Croydon (which are faster than the existing SL7), and allows it to still serve its existing stops at the Police Station and the Post Office. There is enough stand space for the SL5, SL7 and 470 so that won't be an issue, and the changes should solve the stand issues in Croydon and maybe allow the 407 split to go ahead. Good point "It is probably a necessary change, both for reliability purposes and to allow the SL7 to use electric buses"I like the rationale of using Sutton Station as SL5/SL7 terminating point but my memories of Sutton Station is that there's not much bus stand space at the station itself allied with a lot of routes serving the station. Is there enough space or are you advocating parking on stand away from Sutton Station? |
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Apr 19, 2024 9:29:42 GMT
I really like the Ealing-Kingston express route, Streatham to Eltham route express route, North Greenwich to Thamesmead express route, Wimbledon to Richmond express route proposals. Those 4 are the strongest ones from the whole Superloop 2 scheme. That Hendon to Ealing one is incredibly strong too. Those 112s are rammed whenever I see them! I'd lay money that would be an instant success My buses are always rammed in the peaks and sometimes I have to drive off as I can't let anymore passengers on but I definitely welcome an express route for the 112 which I saw coming and that goes to show how far the route has come. However on the proposed map it appears that Stonebridge Park doesn't show up and I definitely think it should stop as it's very busy as when I stop there a lot of passengers get on and off but maybe that'll appear. Other than that I like all the other ideas. |
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Post by Unorm on Apr 19, 2024 9:35:15 GMT
Tulse Hill stop on SL6  but still in it's peak-hour line diagram  So far positive of the new routes I see, even if there may be three routes from Streatham to Tulse Hill whilst people coming in via/from West Norwood tend to foresake the low frequency of 315 in favour of a combined 8 bph 201/P13 switching at Tulse Hill, but hey both routes tend to be well used between the two places. Wouldn't suggest the new Superloop go via West Norwood but it'd both avoid the low bridge on Thurlow Park Road and create more links... and a Streatham-West Norwood route that is high frequency... maybe not require an improvised connection between SL6 and SL(number) |
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but still in it's peak-hour line diagram 
