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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 15, 2024 18:24:11 GMT
Routes 139 could be withdrawn, with route 189 increased appropriately. The section from West Hampstead to Golders Green was only introduced for operational convenience. Given the Bakerloo Line in the area, already under-used, this would cover most links. Route 453 could be rerouted via Bond Street Station to maintain some current links. Alternatively, route 176 could be diverted to Oxford Circus and route 15 extended to Tottenham Court Road. The 139 does look vulnerable, the 189 could perhaps be rerouted via Mill Lane and the 32 rerouted via Quex Road and Abbey Road to keep the round the corner link if a stand can be found somewhere near Lords Cricket Ground? The 94 could perhaps be extended to Waterloo and the 189 rerouted to Piccadilly Circus? Alternatively TFL could just give the 139 more to do and withdraw the 189 between Quex Road and Marble Arch like in the consultation. I saw serval 189s the other day heading along Rossmore Road very lightly loaded and going back to the 90s and before that section was normally only covered by 1 route (159). Where to send it after Kilburn thou would be the question as I doubt another route to Kilburn Park is desired. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 15, 2024 18:36:39 GMT
The 139 does look vulnerable, the 189 could perhaps be rerouted via Mill Lane and the 32 rerouted via Quex Road and Abbey Road to keep the round the corner link if a stand can be found somewhere near Lords Cricket Ground? The 94 could perhaps be extended to Waterloo and the 189 rerouted to Piccadilly Circus? Alternatively TFL could just give the 139 more to do and withdraw the 189 between Quex Road and Marble Arch like in the consultation. I saw serval 189s the other day heading along Rossmore Road very lightly loaded and going back to the 90s and before that section was normally only covered by 1 route (159). Where to send it after Kilburn thou would be the question as I doubt another route to Kilburn Park is desired. I may have made hard work of the southern end of route 139 if so many people find it useful. I gather the link from Abbey Road to Marble Arch is really just for operational convenience. So, withdraw route 189 and divert route 139 to Brent Cross with a suitably increased frequency. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 15, 2024 18:39:56 GMT
The 139 does look vulnerable, the 189 could perhaps be rerouted via Mill Lane and the 32 rerouted via Quex Road and Abbey Road to keep the round the corner link if a stand can be found somewhere near Lords Cricket Ground? The 94 could perhaps be extended to Waterloo and the 189 rerouted to Piccadilly Circus? Alternatively TFL could just give the 139 more to do and withdraw the 189 between Quex Road and Marble Arch like in the consultation. I saw serval 189s the other day heading along Rossmore Road very lightly loaded and going back to the 90s and before that section was normally only covered by 1 route (159). Where to send it after Kilburn thou would be the question as I doubt another route to Kilburn Park is desired. I think it is difficult to justify both the 139 and 189 and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them gets axed. |
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Post by greg on Sept 15, 2024 22:59:27 GMT
Alternatively TFL could just give the 139 more to do and withdraw the 189 between Quex Road and Marble Arch like in the consultation. I saw serval 189s the other day heading along Rossmore Road very lightly loaded and going back to the 90s and before that section was normally only covered by 1 route (159). Where to send it after Kilburn thou would be the question as I doubt another route to Kilburn Park is desired. I may have made hard work of the southern end of route 139 if so many people find it useful. I gather the link from Abbey Road to Marble Arch is really just for operational convenience. So, withdraw route 189 and divert route 139 to Brent Cross with a suitably increased frequency. Brent Cross to Waterloo would be way too long, the 189 does hit some hotspots. Aswell as Waterloo-OXO. Perhaps Oxford Circus-Brent Cross as previously with the 94 extended to Waterloo instead. |
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Post by sdaniel on Sept 15, 2024 23:54:46 GMT
I may have made hard work of the southern end of route 139 if so many people find it useful. I gather the link from Abbey Road to Marble Arch is really just for operational convenience. So, withdraw route 189 and divert route 139 to Brent Cross with a suitably increased frequency. Brent Cross to Waterloo would be way too long, the 189 does hit some hotspots. Aswell as Waterloo-OXO. Perhaps Oxford Circus-Brent Cross as previously with the 94 extended to Waterloo instead. As much as I think withdrawing then 139 is a neutral idea because I see both positive sides and negative sides about it, maybe you could look at extending bus route 12 to West Hampstead to replace 139 and then curtail bus route 189 to Baker Street Station and extend it to Colindale. Then reroute 113 to Oxford Circus of course. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 16, 2024 1:16:18 GMT
Brent Cross to Waterloo would be way too long, the 189 does hit some hotspots. Aswell as Waterloo-OXO. Perhaps Oxford Circus-Brent Cross as previously with the 94 extended to Waterloo instead. As much as I think withdrawing then 139 is a neutral idea because I see both positive sides and negative sides about it, maybe you could look at extending bus route 12 to West Hampstead to replace 139 and then curtail bus route 189 to Baker Street Station and extend it to Colindale. Then reroute 113 to Oxford Circus of course. That would make the 12 too long and would also need a swap of vehicles as West End Green is unable to have LT's stand there from memory. Not local but I don't really see a need to merge the 139 & 189 at all as I don't see what the issue is. |
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Post by sdaniel on Sept 16, 2024 11:41:24 GMT
As much as I think withdrawing then 139 is a neutral idea because I see both positive sides and negative sides about it, maybe you could look at extending bus route 12 to West Hampstead to replace 139 and then curtail bus route 189 to Baker Street Station and extend it to Colindale. Then reroute 113 to Oxford Circus of course. That would make the 12 too long and would also need a swap of vehicles as West End Green is unable to have LT's stand there from memory. Not local but I don't really see a need to merge the 139 & 189 at all as I don't see what the issue is. Fair enough that Dulwich is too far from Golders Green and you have a point that there is no need to merge 139/189 as some links will be broken. But I’ve always thought and suggested that 139 should be extended further down south which is why maybe merging it with another route would be a good idea but certainly not with the 189. Maybe looking back at the Central London Bus Consultation when TFL wanted to merge routes 12/148, they could possibly do this: 12: Camberwell Green - Golders Green (withdrawn between Trafalgar Square & Waterloo, extended to Camberwell and diverted via Westminster, Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle) 94: Acton Green - Waterloo (extended to Waterloo via 139) 139: Withdrawn (renumbered as 12, replaced by 12 & 49) 148: Shepherds Bush Green - Dulwich Library (extended to Dulwich) Camberwell isn’t far from Waterloo so this might be able to work out and 94 extension would be nice. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 16, 2024 11:44:45 GMT
That would make the 12 too long and would also need a swap of vehicles as West End Green is unable to have LT's stand there from memory. Not local but I don't really see a need to merge the 139 & 189 at all as I don't see what the issue is. Fair enough that Dulwich is too far from Golders Green and you have a point that there is no need to merge 139/189 as some links will be broken. But I’ve always thought and suggested that 139 should be extended further down south which is why maybe merging it with another route would be a good idea but certainly not with the 189. Maybe looking back at the Central London Bus Consultation when TFL wanted to merge routes 12/148, they could possibly do this: 12: Camberwell Green - Golders Green (withdrawn between Trafalgar Square & Waterloo, extended to Camberwell and diverted via Westminster, Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle) 49: Acton Green - Waterloo (extended to Waterloo via 139) 139: Withdrawn (renumbered as 12) 148: Shepherds Bush Green - Dulwich Library (extended to Dulwich) Camberwell isn’t far from Waterloo so this might be able to work out and 49 extension would be nice. Apologies but I still think your proposal is far too long for the 12 (and now the 148 too)and I’m still not convinced anything needs changing either. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 16, 2024 12:19:53 GMT
That would make the 12 too long and would also need a swap of vehicles as West End Green is unable to have LT's stand there from memory. Not local but I don't really see a need to merge the 139 & 189 at all as I don't see what the issue is. Fair enough that Dulwich is too far from Golders Green and you have a point that there is no need to merge 139/189 as some links will be broken. But I’ve always thought and suggested that 139 should be extended further down south which is why maybe merging it with another route would be a good idea but certainly not with the 189. Maybe looking back at the Central London Bus Consultation when TFL wanted to merge routes 12/148, they could possibly do this: 12: Camberwell Green - Golders Green (withdrawn between Trafalgar Square & Waterloo, extended to Camberwell and diverted via Westminster, Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle) 94: Acton Green - Waterloo (extended to Waterloo via 139) 139: Withdrawn (renumbered as 12, replaced by 12 & 49) 148: Shepherds Bush Green - Dulwich Library (extended to Dulwich) Camberwell isn’t far from Waterloo so this might be able to work out and 94 extension would be nice. If any rationalisation occurs to the 189 the most likely option TFL would consider would be cutting it back to Baker Street with the 2 or 74 cut to Marble Arch to make space. I can't see the 139 changing at all and I don't think TFL would go there trying to change the 12 again |
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Post by M1104 on Sept 16, 2024 12:40:29 GMT
44 - Extend beyond Tooting Station to Mitcham, frequency adjusted accordingly
270 - withdrawn
414 - Cut back from Marble Arch to South Kensington and extend beyond Putney Bridge to Tooting Station, frequency adjusted accordingly
EDIT: or flipping over the latter two
270 - cut back from Mitcham to Tooting, extend beyond Putney Bridge to South Kensington
414 - withdrawn (as is TfL's plan)
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Post by TB123 on Sept 16, 2024 13:03:51 GMT
44 - Extend beyond Tooting Station to Mitcham, frequency adjusted accordingly 270 - withdrawn 414 - Cut back from Marble Arch to South Kensington and extend beyond Putney Bridge to Tooting Station, frequency adjusted accordingly Now this is a proposal I quite like. With the 220 cycle time getting ever longer (over 3 hours) plus the prospect of an extension to Old Oak Common in time I do wonder whether there may be the prospect of shuffling the 220 and 270 in time - perhaps something like Hammersmith-Mitcham and Putney Garage-Old Oak Common with the 265 being diverted to Wandsworth |
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Post by abellion on Sept 16, 2024 14:58:05 GMT
44 - Extend beyond Tooting Station to Mitcham, frequency adjusted accordingly 270 - withdrawn 414 - Cut back from Marble Arch to South Kensington and extend beyond Putney Bridge to Tooting Station, frequency adjusted accordingly Now this is a proposal I quite like. With the 220 cycle time getting ever longer (over 3 hours) plus the prospect of an extension to Old Oak Common in time I do wonder whether there may be the prospect of shuffling the 220 and 270 in time - perhaps something like Hammersmith-Mitcham and Putney Garage-Old Oak Common with the 265 being diverted to Wandsworth The overcrowding is getting out of hand on Garratt Lane with people getting left behind and the 220/270 duo are a total nightmare so I agree that something needs to be done. That being said the 270 is struggling way too much with its current route let alone with an extension to Hammersmith, and extending the 44 anywhere is a bad idea also because it’s already very busy and slow throughout its entire route with high passenger density figures. The 265 to Wandsworth was actually a success IIRC and would be better than the borderline useless 485, but a route stopping on the bridge going to Wandsworth would be more useful because curtailed 220s will not reach Brewhouse Lane and have a big effect on the 270, definitely part of why the 485 is verging on useless as it offers no support there. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 16, 2024 16:34:13 GMT
44 - Extend beyond Tooting Station to Mitcham, frequency adjusted accordingly 270 - withdrawn 414 - Cut back from Marble Arch to South Kensington and extend beyond Putney Bridge to Tooting Station, frequency adjusted accordingly Now this is a proposal I quite like. With the 220 cycle time getting ever longer (over 3 hours) plus the prospect of an extension to Old Oak Common in time I do wonder whether there may be the prospect of shuffling the 220 and 270 in time - perhaps something like Hammersmith-Mitcham and Putney Garage-Old Oak Common with the 265 being diverted to Wandsworth I would suggest to maybe cut the 220 back to Hammersmith, operating as present to Scrubs Lane, then through Old Oak Common to Willesden Junction junction and back to Harlesden, continuing to terminate at Craven Park - with the option to maybe extend further to Wembley. Then extend the 72 from Hammersmith to Wandsworth (and converted to DDs), replacing the rest of the 220. And send the 283 to Hammersmith Bridge North Side if needed. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 16, 2024 16:46:33 GMT
Fair enough that Dulwich is too far from Golders Green and you have a point that there is no need to merge 139/189 as some links will be broken. But I’ve always thought and suggested that 139 should be extended further down south which is why maybe merging it with another route would be a good idea but certainly not with the 189. Maybe looking back at the Central London Bus Consultation when TFL wanted to merge routes 12/148, they could possibly do this: 12: Camberwell Green - Golders Green (withdrawn between Trafalgar Square & Waterloo, extended to Camberwell and diverted via Westminster, Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle) 94: Acton Green - Waterloo (extended to Waterloo via 139) 139: Withdrawn (renumbered as 12, replaced by 12 & 49) 148: Shepherds Bush Green - Dulwich Library (extended to Dulwich) Camberwell isn’t far from Waterloo so this might be able to work out and 94 extension would be nice. If any rationalisation occurs to the 189 the most likely option TFL would consider would be cutting it back to Baker Street with the 2 or 74 cut to Marble Arch to make space. I can't see the 139 changing at all and I don't think TFL would go there trying to change the 12 again The 139 provides some useful links and should definitely be kept - not everywhere between Golders Green and Baker Street has easy access to a tube station. I think one more minor change that could work well for the 139 would be to divert between Lisson Grove and Oxford Circus, to continue further down Lisson Grove to serve Marylebone Station, then via the 453. The 453 could then be cut back to Oxford Circus, with the 139's frequency being better suited to this section to Marylebone. And would also increase demand on the 189, as this would be the only route from Abbey Road to the area around Selfridges. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 16, 2024 17:00:31 GMT
I may have made hard work of the southern end of route 139 if so many people find it useful. I gather the link from Abbey Road to Marble Arch is really just for operational convenience. So, withdraw route 189 and divert route 139 to Brent Cross with a suitably increased frequency. Brent Cross to Waterloo would be way too long, the 189 does hit some hotspots. Aswell as Waterloo-OXO. Perhaps Oxford Circus-Brent Cross as previously with the 94 extended to Waterloo instead. Or perhaps the 189 could extend from Marble Arch to Victoria, then send the 6 to Waterloo via Oxford Circus? The 6 currently parallels most of the 36's links between Queens Park and Victoria, while the 189 would restore some of the former 16's links up to Kilburn and Cricklewood. Or keep the 139 to Waterloo - then cut the 6 to Marble Arch (or Oxford Circus), extending at the other end instead to provide some new links. Could a swap with the 187 maybe work, with the 187 shortened to operate between Willesden Bus Garage and Finchley Road, then the 6 diverting at Kensal Rise to Park Royal? I assume DDs can fit here, as WJ's DDs are blinded for the 187 (could convert this revised 187 to DDs too). And might also help relieve part of the 18 between Harlesden and Edgware Road. |
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