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Post by george on Dec 14, 2022 18:43:13 GMT
Yesterday there was two accidents on or nearby the 281 route. I was on a 418 from Kingston to Tolworth got as far as Surbiton Health Centre. I made it there before the bus. I heard about the one on Wood Street, but the diversion is quicker than the actual route so shouldn't affect the route much. Where was the other one? Traffic in Kingston was awful everywhere yesterday for some reason (presumably the train strike was part of the reason). Took over an hour to get from Cromwell Road Bus Station to New Malden on the X26. Accident on Kingston Road on the 406/418 route which certainly can't have helped the 281. |
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Post by paulo on Dec 14, 2022 21:03:51 GMT
Apparently only 20 out of around 70 chargers can be used otherwise it will cause a power outage at Fulwell Station which causes issues for network rail. Absolute chaos. I suspect that is only part of the story, doesn’t make a lot of sense that 70 chargers have been happily used for months, then suddenly 50 need to be turned off as someone down the road is still using electricity. My guess is an aging cable or transformer has failed in the area (probably due to high demand, causing the insulation to overheat and burn out), and power is coming from another substation, by cables which couldn’t cope with high loads. In which case it would be temporary until UK power replace the faulty part. There is another alternative, basically have a contract with a limit at the power Co discretion, some heavy industry has this in exchange for lower tariff. But unlike a factory, can’t really shut down for a few hours, and agreeing a contract where suddenly need to find dozens of diesel buses at short notice makes no sense to me. Twickenham is on part of the new London ring which was installed about 15 years ago, from memory the cables cross the river in a tunnel driven near Orleans Park, and run from the 132kv substation by old Kingston power station to the 132kv substation near the railway junction. There is a useful map (linked) , but although major overhead power lines are marked, doesn’t include some buried below the road. If you zoom in can see the substations marked by grey circles openinframap.org/#11.11/51.4144/-0.3928A fair chance that the installation at TF has caused this issue. Perhaps a test switch on overloaded the network? |
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Post by george on Dec 14, 2022 21:10:24 GMT
I honestly think that RATP should have made sure that the 371 still has a service tonight, it serves roads that aren't served by any other route so is a vital service. I would even go as far as saying that they could have taken some buses off the 33 as with that route there are more alternative routes passengers could use.
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Post by paulo on Dec 14, 2022 22:23:52 GMT
I honestly think that RATP should have made sure that the 371 still has a service tonight, it serves roads that aren't served by any other route so is a vital service. I would even go as far as saying that they could have taken some buses off the 33 as with that route there are more alternative routes passengers could use. 100% agree. Enough vehicles would have come out of service around 5-6pm even if it meant other garages helped out. Sign of the times we are in I’m afraid. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 14, 2022 22:25:04 GMT
Looks like the 371 has been suspended. Yes, the below is from TfL buses status. It’s times like this that make very wary of rushing out widespread electronic buses across London. There is NO SERVICE in operation on route 371 due to operational issues. Please use alternative routes to complete your journey. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to your journey. And also this Routes 65 71 85 and 281 are operating a reduced service to all destinations due to operational issues. Waiting times for buses will be longer than usual. Please allow extra time for your journey and use alternative routes if possible. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to your journey. I seem to recall a past TFL commissioner saying that for a full electric bus fleet, London would need four new power stations. I don't think the UK as a whole as had a new power station since then let alone London. Obviously energy can be imported but the inference was that sheer scale of the draw on the current network would put it under strain if every bus was needing to be charged up. |
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Post by yunus on Dec 14, 2022 23:01:11 GMT
Yes, the below is from TfL buses status. It’s times like this that make very wary of rushing out widespread electronic buses across London. There is NO SERVICE in operation on route 371 due to operational issues. Please use alternative routes to complete your journey. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to your journey. And also this Routes 65 71 85 and 281 are operating a reduced service to all destinations due to operational issues. Waiting times for buses will be longer than usual. Please allow extra time for your journey and use alternative routes if possible. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to your journey. I seem to recall a past TFL commissioner saying that for a full electric bus fleet, London would need four new power stations. I don't think the UK as a whole as had a new power station since then let alone London. Obviously energy can be imported but the inference was that sheer scale of the draw on the current network would put it under strain if every bus was needing to be charged up. Personally I do not know what to predict. Of course towards the end of this and next decade when EVs increase, improvements can be made. Maybe (correct if I am wrong) the Hybrid approach may have been better for the foreseeable? Whilst classed as Ultra Low Emission, the engine chargers the battery as driven. As I've said before all new tech's have faults so hoping it will be soon resolved. Not just London, but the UK & Europe seem very keen on full Electric buses so I guess there is something they could know which we don't. |
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Post by redbus on Dec 14, 2022 23:21:58 GMT
Apparently only 20 out of around 70 chargers can be used otherwise it will cause a power outage at Fulwell Station which causes issues for network rail. Absolute chaos. I suspect that is only part of the story, doesn’t make a lot of sense that 70 chargers have been happily used for months, then suddenly 50 need to be turned off as someone down the road is still using electricity. My guess is an aging cable or transformer has failed in the area (probably due to high demand, causing the insulation to overheat and burn out), and power is coming from another substation, by cables which couldn’t cope with high loads. In which case it would be temporary until UK power replace the faulty part. There is another alternative, basically have a contract with a limit at the power Co discretion, some heavy industry has this in exchange for lower tariff. But unlike a factory, can’t really shut down for a few hours, and agreeing a contract where suddenly need to find dozens of diesel buses at short notice makes no sense to me. Twickenham is on part of the new London ring which was installed about 15 years ago, from memory the cables cross the river in a tunnel driven near Orleans Park, and run from the 132kv substation by old Kingston power station to the 132kv substation near the railway junction. There is a useful map (linked) , but although major overhead power lines are marked, doesn’t include some buried below the road. If you zoom in can see the substations marked by grey circles openinframap.org/#11.11/51.4144/-0.3928I would have thought that with bus charging taking place overnight, bus companies could get some sort of contract with an electricity supplier for cheap overnight electricity. |
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Post by DE20106 on Dec 14, 2022 23:25:31 GMT
I seem to recall a past TFL commissioner saying that for a full electric bus fleet, London would need four new power stations. I don't think the UK as a whole as had a new power station since then let alone London. Obviously energy can be imported but the inference was that sheer scale of the draw on the current network would put it under strain if every bus was needing to be charged up. Personally I do not know what to predict. Of course towards the end of this and next decade when EVs increase, improvements can be made. Maybe (correct if I am wrong) the Hybrid approach may have been better for the foreseeable? Whilst classed as Ultra Low Emission, the engine chargers the battery as driven. As I've said before all new tech's have faults so hoping it will be soon resolved. Not just London, but the UK & Europe seem very keen on full Electric buses so I guess there is something they could know which we don't. I couldn’t agree more, TfL were far too quick to ditch hybrid buses. They are incredibly clean vehicles so it wouldn’t have made much difference to the air quality imo to have more of these than electric. I really think the 2034 target is too ambitious. It should really have been be 2040, get the electric infrastructure in place to actually run reliably, wire the garages up a little bit before anticipating needing electrics for that garage. Just so you haven’t got diesels running around nearly a year into an electric contract, and gradually phase in EVs when the tech is more reliable, that would have been a far better way to go imo. It’s far too gung ho. |
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Post by sleckdeck on Dec 14, 2022 23:28:58 GMT
Surely it would make sense for RATP to reduce a few buses from V and X’s route to put on the 65/281/33?
Abellio and network rails strike is causing a terrible service on the 65 as customers travelling from Chiswick/Brentford to Twickenham/Teddington are all crowding the 65 and 281. These routes absolutely need support right now.
Surely any SPs that have just gone off lease can return to WK or FW to release buses to the 65?
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 14, 2022 23:39:28 GMT
Surely it would make sense for RATP to reduce a few buses from V and X’s route to put on the 65/281/33? Abellio and network rails strike is causing a terrible service on the 65 as customers travelling from Chiswick/Brentford to Twickenham/Teddington are all crowding the 65 and 281. These routes absolutely need support right now. Surely any SPs that have just gone off lease can return to WK or FW to release buses to the 65? It’s probably better to minimise contractual losses from one route rather involving multiple routes. It would better for TfL to introduce an emergency timetable but that would understandably take a few days to prepare. As for the withdrawn SPs, if they are already sold and awaiting collection by their new owners RATP would be unlikely to reactivate them. If not sold it may take a day or two to get them ready for service. |
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Post by COBO on Dec 14, 2022 23:51:53 GMT
Surely it would make sense for RATP to reduce a few buses from V and X’s route to put on the 65/281/33? Abellio and network rails strike is causing a terrible service on the 65 as customers travelling from Chiswick/Brentford to Twickenham/Teddington are all crowding the 65 and 281. These routes absolutely need support right now. Surely any SPs that have just gone off lease can return to WK or FW to release buses to the 65? How would X and V do that? Won’t V and X need them? |
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Post by sleckdeck on Dec 14, 2022 23:52:33 GMT
Surely it would make sense for RATP to reduce a few buses from V and X’s route to put on the 65/281/33? Abellio and network rails strike is causing a terrible service on the 65 as customers travelling from Chiswick/Brentford to Twickenham/Teddington are all crowding the 65 and 281. These routes absolutely need support right now. Surely any SPs that have just gone off lease can return to WK or FW to release buses to the 65? It’s probably better to minimise contractual losses from one route rather involving multiple routes. It would better for TfL to introduce an emergency timetable but that would understandably take a few days to prepare. As for the withdrawn SPs, if they are already sold and awaiting collection by their new owners RATP would be unlikely to reactivate them. If not sold it may take a day or two to get them ready for service. I mean spares from garages like AV can be taken, as I believe some SPs at AV are spare and some SPs are still at NC. Hopefully RATP can gather some SPs, otherwise they can try loaning out VWH’s from Metroline from AH? A few are spare. |
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Post by sleckdeck on Dec 14, 2022 23:59:31 GMT
Surely it would make sense for RATP to reduce a few buses from V and X’s route to put on the 65/281/33? Abellio and network rails strike is causing a terrible service on the 65 as customers travelling from Chiswick/Brentford to Twickenham/Teddington are all crowding the 65 and 281. These routes absolutely need support right now. Surely any SPs that have just gone off lease can return to WK or FW to release buses to the 65? How would X and V do that? Won’t V and X need them? Yes but I’m suggesting FW take a few buses from each route from X and V as abellio’s strike/Network rail is severely impacting services on the 65/281 as the routes have become extra busy as a result. For example, taking a couple buses off the 23 shouldn’t do too many issues as the route does not get very busy, same with routes like the 28 and 452. Obviously it is impractical, however the 65 is a route that is really suffering from a lack of support right now. |
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Post by dlroper on Dec 15, 2022 0:02:19 GMT
Extreme cold does have an impact on electric vehicle charging. Takes longer basically. And can reduce range. Not sure why Network Rail need power today they’re on strike. there's still trains running and critical systems for signalling etc will still need power NR has its own 33kV HV power network to supply the traction substations & derived 415v/650v signalling supplies there from. Local substations are at Twickenham, Teddington, Fulwell & Upper Halliford (normally) fed from the National Grid at Wimbledon ISTR but my days of having memorised the 33kV feeder network are fadingggggggggggggg. Fulwell station will have a 415v supply locally from UKPNS and the point heating at junctions is also usually fed thus too. |
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Post by COBO on Dec 15, 2022 0:23:22 GMT
It’s probably better to minimise contractual losses from one route rather involving multiple routes. It would better for TfL to introduce an emergency timetable but that would understandably take a few days to prepare. As for the withdrawn SPs, if they are already sold and awaiting collection by their new owners RATP would be unlikely to reactivate them. If not sold it may take a day or two to get them ready for service. I mean spares from garages like AV can be taken, as I believe some SPs at AV are spare and some SPs are still at NC. Hopefully RATP can gather some SPs, otherwise they can try loaning out VWH’s from Metroline from AH? A few are spare. Does AH have any spare VWHS? |
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