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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 30, 2012 11:07:57 GMT
421 : Eltham (Southend Crescent) - Waterloo via Lee Green, Lewisham, New Cross, Old Kent Road and Elephant and Castle. Would relieve some of the pressure on route 321, as well as providing a link to zone 1 from Eltham, and between Lewisham and Elephant. 459 : Thamesmead Town Centre - Bluewater via Bentham Road, Abbey Wood, New Road, Upper Belvedere, Brook Street, Northumberland Heath, Barnehurst, Crayford, Dartford and Darenth Valley Hospital. New links from areas not yet linked to Darenth Valley Hospital and Bluewater. I like both these ideas enormously, but would an extension of the 428 not be a more cost effective way of achieving what you're trying to do with the 459? You mean 428 on from Erith via Bexley Road, Carlton Road, Brook Street then on to Thamesmead? Seems just as good. I would guess TfL already do this to a point, but I do agree, that would be interesting. |
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Post by beaver14uk on Dec 30, 2012 11:13:11 GMT
The 428 was looked at being extended to Upper Belvedere or Thamesmead at one point. I like both these ideas enormously, but would an extension of the 428 not be a more cost effective way of achieving what you're trying to do with the 459? You mean 428 on from Erith via Bexley Road, Carlton Road, Brook Street then on to Thamesmead? Seems just as good. I would guess TfL already do this to a point, but I do agree, that would be interesting. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 30, 2012 11:29:57 GMT
Linking Lewisham and Elephant seems a particularly key development from this thread. I think it was a link which once existed in the form of route 1, which was then cut back to Canada Water without any real sort of replacement. The 1 could be extended down to Lewisham rather than the 199 to Elephant, but with the caution that the 1 already has overcrowding. The frequency would need to be increased as well as the route extended to cope with new through journeys. The most recent route to provide the link was the 199, it was cut back to Canada Water with the Jubilee line changes of 1999, changes that also extended the 1 to Canada Water from Surrey Quays. That means any southeastward extension of route 1 will either mean a double run via Surrey Quays or withdrawal from Canada Water, both of which would I feel be unpopular. |
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Post by VPL630 on Dec 30, 2012 12:27:06 GMT
I propose the following: 1. Route 169 should be scrapped! 2. Route 179 should extend to Becontree Heath via Route 150 3. Route 169 should be renumbered 150 and extend to Chigwell Row via Clayhall! Route 179: Chingford Station - Woodford Wells - South Woodford - Gants Hill - Ilford - South Park - Goodmayes - Becontree Heath. Route 150: Chigwell Row - Hainault - Clayhall - Barkingside - Newbury Park - Ilford - Ilford Lane - Barking Yes, Yes, Yes |
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Post by IanF on Dec 30, 2012 14:38:09 GMT
The 428 was looked at being extended to Upper Belvedere or Thamesmead at one point. You mean 428 on from Erith via Bexley Road, Carlton Road, Brook Street then on to Thamesmead? Seems just as good. I would guess TfL already do this to a point, but I do agree, that would be interesting. To Thamesmead via Yarnton Way would get my vote as it would save me changing buses to go to Bluewater it would need to be double decked though as it would prove to be very popular. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 20:18:39 GMT
My Route 369 looks like this:  |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 30, 2012 20:25:16 GMT
50 is already quite a long route end to end and whilst extending it to Vauxhall does create new links and is only up the road, it could make the route unreliable. The 118 proposal is a good idea. Your 249 extension misses out an important section - the 35 & 37 corridor which needs an extra route to help it out as both routes get packed to rafters. I know 'PVL371' mentions the 345 but that route is also busy along there. Also, the bus stop that the 249 serves at Clapham Common is only a minutes walk from the station - hardly missing it out. From what I can remember, stand space at St. George's Hospital is pretty full with the three routes that currently terminate there plus Blackshaw Road is a bottleneck for traffic - I've spent ages sitting on a bus there in traffic countless times. However, you might be able to solve that problem if you reversed the loop. Your 417 proposal sounds good but you miss out Clapham Junction - one of the most important places along the route. A simple N19 extension to Streatham Hill Telford Avenue would solve that problem. Apologies, I'm hard to please as many already know ;D  The 319 is only route from Clapham Junction to Streatham/ Streatham Hill and is extremely slow most of the time due to traffic pretty much along the whole route. A faster route into Streatham would be much appreciated, this is where our 417 extension would come in handy! Clapham Common is important area, but Clapham Junction is even more important area, what with all the shops, bus routes and the rail station. Why should the extended 417 call at CC when its already well served (by the 50, 137 and 249 to Streatham, the 35, 37 and 345 to Clapham Junction)? The 417 is the quickest route from Clapham Common to Crystal Palace & Leigham Court Road. Many people use these two links including school kids so to re-route it away from Clapham Common would make many people's journeys much longer. It also has been doing that link for a good number of years as the 137A & before that, the 137. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 30, 2012 20:36:43 GMT
To reply to your long post 'someone'
Regarding the 249 - A lot of interchanges involve crossing a road so I don't think people do really care that the 249 only stops a minute away and interchange via a main road is required.
Regarding the 417 - I think you find most people actually do want to go to Clapham Junction as it's a big interchange hub. People from Streatham Hill-Crystal Palace would then be denied this link and would have to make a lengthy walk to the station & the ASDA superstore which is on a hill.
Regarding the N19 - I'm sure other night routes like the N11 & N89 are longer but I think the extension over the 319 of a N19 is a good idea.
Regarding the 255 - Indeed the Balham extension is the best outcome if it does happen - in the meantime, my extension is another possiblity though it would mean trying to justify running the 57 to Brixton whichis very difficult for me to do. I do like the the idea of switching the 255 & 315 routeings around if the Balham extension went ahead - most 315 users change at St. Leonard's Church from Norwood anyway.
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Post by Paul on Jan 2, 2013 14:10:47 GMT
OK, so I've given this a little bit of thought; there's not much else to do on lates but think, especially over the past couple of nights - bloody hell it's been boring! But I digress.....
I think it's been mentioned that one cannot simply introduce two new routes without it having an effect elsewhere. London's bus network is so comprehensive that there are very few places where you could introduce a new route without it impinging on another. To that end, where appropriate, I've also mentioned other, smaller, changes to routes in the surrounding area to that in which my new routes are introduced
My first new route goes from Bromley Common Crown Lane (or Garage, not really sure yet, but we'll come to that) to Canada Water. From my own observations there are many people changing from my 208 to a 47 or 199 and visa versa in the morning and evening peaks respectively. I believe the demand is there for a route running from Bromley further into Central London. Running deep into Zone 1 is a non-starter nowadays so Canada Water seems a happy compromise. The route would follow the 208 to Lewisham and then the 47 to Canada Water in order to avoid the traffic hotspot that is Greenwich. This obviously has a knock-on effect on other routes
Firstly, stand space needs to be found at Canada Water as I believe there are already a number of services terminating there. So, we would restore the 199 to Elephant & Castle as suggested already in this thread. Sadly I don't know enough about the Elephant to suggest a possible stand!
I would also cut the 320 back to Bromley North to allow this new route to provide the support to the 208 between Lewisham & Bromley. This new route would need to be carefully timed so that it does not run together with the 208. I would suggest the same frequency of 12 minutes so that over the common section there is a bus every 6 minutes (as there used to be before the 320 was extended). This should help to spread the load and still ensure buses reach Catford with sufficent capacity available
In regards to the southern terminus of the route I am still a little unsure. I think it would probably make more sense to terminate it at Bromley Garage and have the allocation based there with the 208 moving on up to Catford Garage. Alternatively, the new route could be based at Catford with the 208 remaining at Bromley although this might provide some space issues at The Crown particularly when the 208s are changing over on the stand as we do in the evenings and on weekends. Probably best all round if the 208 moves to Catford and Bromley gets the new route - assuming Stagecoach would win any tender!
So to summarise:
New Route - Bromley Garage - Bromley Common - Bromley - Downham - Catford - Lewisham - Deptford Bridge - Surrey Quays - Canada Water
199 - Extended to Elephant & Castle
320 - Curtailed to Bromley North
208 and new route timed to run every 6 minutes over common section between Lewisham & Bromley
My second new route involves a route connecting Orpington and Eltham but I'm still working out a routing and the subsequent changes it might enforce on other routes
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 14:20:44 GMT
Route 550- a limited stop route combining route 50 & 137. Runs between Croydon Flyover- Oxford Circus, offering an easier way into Central London. Operated by Arriva with DLA's, VLA's and DW's (MK1 only), every 14 minutes. Calls at:
Croydon Library, Park Street, Whitgift Centre, Talbot Road, Thornton Heath Stn, Braemar Avenue, Norbury Station, Streatham Station, St Leonard's Church, Streatham Hill Station, Atkins Road, Clapham Common Old Town, Wandsworth Road/Silverthorne Road, Battersea Park Station, Sloane Square, Hyde Park Corner Stn, Dorchester Hotel, Brook Street and Oxford Circus, Holles Street.What would be the point of an express route via route 50 when the 109 is quicker  An express service via the 159 and 109 would surely be a better option? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 14:39:17 GMT
What would be the point of an express route via route 50 when the 109 is quicker Route 50 is the fastest route into Croydon from Streatham. It normally beats the 109 by a few minutes, it's also faster than the 60 and 250, hence why it would be the best choice.  |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 2, 2013 15:48:13 GMT
What would be the point of an express route via route 50 when the 109 is quicker Route 50 is the fastest route into Croydon from Streatham. It normally beats the 109 by a few minutes, it's also faster than the 60 and 250, hence why it would be the best choice. I can vouch for this as I used the 50 to Croydon when going to college and I found it quicker than the 109 or 250. That said, I would still run your express route via the 109. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 16:05:31 GMT
That said, I would still run your express route via the 109. Because the 109 serves Brixton Hill and the 50 doesn't? ;D |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 2, 2013 17:06:11 GMT
My second new route involves a route connecting Orpington and Eltham but I'm still working out a routing and the subsequent changes it might enforce on other routes Maybe just send the 126 to Orpington via the 358 and cut the 358 back to Bromley South? Then maybe extend the 358 beyond Crystal Palace to create another cross-Crystal Palace service? |
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Post by jay38a on Jan 2, 2013 17:19:35 GMT
OK, so I've given this a little bit of thought; there's not much else to do on lates but think, especially over the past couple of nights - bloody hell it's been boring! But I digress..... I think it's been mentioned that one cannot simply introduce two new routes without it having an effect elsewhere. London's bus network is so comprehensive that there are very few places where you could introduce a new route without it impinging on another. To that end, where appropriate, I've also mentioned other, smaller, changes to routes in the surrounding area to that in which my new routes are introduced My first new route goes from Bromley Common Crown Lane (or Garage, not really sure yet, but we'll come to that) to Canada Water. From my own observations there are many people changing from my 208 to a 47 or 199 and visa versa in the morning and evening peaks respectively. I believe the demand is there for a route running from Bromley further into Central London. Running deep into Zone 1 is a non-starter nowadays so Canada Water seems a happy compromise. The route would follow the 208 to Lewisham and then the 47 to Canada Water in order to avoid the traffic hotspot that is Greenwich. This obviously has a knock-on effect on other routes Firstly, stand space needs to be found at Canada Water as I believe there are already a number of services terminating there. So, we would restore the 199 to Elephant & Castle as suggested already in this thread. Sadly I don't know enough about the Elephant to suggest a possible stand! I would also cut the 320 back to Bromley North to allow this new route to provide the support to the 208 between Lewisham & Bromley. This new route would need to be carefully timed so that it does not run together with the 208. I would suggest the same frequency of 12 minutes so that over the common section there is a bus every 6 minutes (as there used to be before the 320 was extended). This should help to spread the load and still ensure buses reach Catford with sufficent capacity available In regards to the southern terminus of the route I am still a little unsure. I think it would probably make more sense to terminate it at Bromley Garage and have the allocation based there with the 208 moving on up to Catford Garage. Alternatively, the new route could be based at Catford with the 208 remaining at Bromley although this might provide some space issues at The Crown particularly when the 208s are changing over on the stand as we do in the evenings and on weekends. Probably best all round if the 208 moves to Catford and Bromley gets the new route - assuming Stagecoach would win any tender! So to summarise: New Route - Bromley Garage - Bromley Common - Bromley - Downham - Catford - Lewisham - Deptford Bridge - Surrey Quays - Canada Water 199 - Extended to Elephant & Castle 320 - Curtailed to Bromley North 208 and new route timed to run every 6 minutes over common section between Lewisham & Bromley My second new route involves a route connecting Orpington and Eltham but I'm still working out a routing and the subsequent changes it might enforce on other routes Nice idea, but tampering with the 320 is a massively bad idea for 2 reasons - a) It's the main service to Biggin Hill from Bromley. The 246 is a much slower alternative and wouldn't cope with the extra loadings, and b) the residents of Biggin Hill were up in arms at the 320 being extended to Catford. They ended up with their MP on the case. If they lost their main service to Bromley hell would break loose I think paul is more suggesting the 320 goes back to how it was before Biggin Hill to Bromley North only. |
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