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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 11:00:25 GMT
Route 445 - Clapham Junction to Lewisham via Lavender Hill, Cedars Road, Clapham Common, Clapham North, Stockwell, Brixton Police Station, Loughborough Junction, Camberwell Green, Peckham, Queens Road Station & New Cross. This would take over the 345 east of Brixton and creates an east to west link - something which South London lacks. Now for a wacky one ;D - Route 435 - Herne Hill to New Addington Tram Stop via Dulwich Road, Brixton Water Lane, Brixton Hill, Christchurch Road, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Crown Point, Streatham Common, Norbury, Thornton Heath Pond, Thornton Heath, Whitehorse Road, High Street Flyover, South Croydon, Lloyd Park & Addington Village. It does help other routes out but would need a big PVR I think your wacky route 435 could be a goer between Norbury and Herne Hill and from there I'd extend it via Milkwood Road and Coldharbour Lane to Camberwell Green, useful link to Kings College Hospital as well. MPD Darts about every 15mins should suffice? I'm afraid I don't think the section south of Norbury would be viable and do we really need another route from Croydon to Addington Village when the 466 hardly carries anybody? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 11:03:52 GMT
OK, so I've given this a little bit of thought; there's not much else to do on lates but think, especially over the past couple of nights - bloody hell it's been boring! But I digress..... I think it's been mentioned that one cannot simply introduce two new routes without it having an effect elsewhere. London's bus network is so comprehensive that there are very few places where you could introduce a new route without it impinging on another. To that end, where appropriate, I've also mentioned other, smaller, changes to routes in the surrounding area to that in which my new routes are introduced My first new route goes from Bromley Common Crown Lane (or Garage, not really sure yet, but we'll come to that) to Canada Water. From my own observations there are many people changing from my 208 to a 47 or 199 and visa versa in the morning and evening peaks respectively. I believe the demand is there for a route running from Bromley further into Central London. Running deep into Zone 1 is a non-starter nowadays so Canada Water seems a happy compromise. The route would follow the 208 to Lewisham and then the 47 to Canada Water in order to avoid the traffic hotspot that is Greenwich. This obviously has a knock-on effect on other routes Firstly, stand space needs to be found at Canada Water as I believe there are already a number of services terminating there. So, we would restore the 199 to Elephant & Castle as suggested already in this thread. Sadly I don't know enough about the Elephant to suggest a possible stand! I would also cut the 320 back to Bromley North to allow this new route to provide the support to the 208 between Lewisham & Bromley. This new route would need to be carefully timed so that it does not run together with the 208. I would suggest the same frequency of 12 minutes so that over the common section there is a bus every 6 minutes (as there used to be before the 320 was extended). This should help to spread the load and still ensure buses reach Catford with sufficent capacity available In regards to the southern terminus of the route I am still a little unsure. I think it would probably make more sense to terminate it at Bromley Garage and have the allocation based there with the 208 moving on up to Catford Garage. Alternatively, the new route could be based at Catford with the 208 remaining at Bromley although this might provide some space issues at The Crown particularly when the 208s are changing over on the stand as we do in the evenings and on weekends. Probably best all round if the 208 moves to Catford and Bromley gets the new route - assuming Stagecoach would win any tender! So to summarise: New Route - Bromley Garage - Bromley Common - Bromley - Downham - Catford - Lewisham - Deptford Bridge - Surrey Quays - Canada Water 199 - Extended to Elephant & Castle 320 - Curtailed to Bromley North 208 and new route timed to run every 6 minutes over common section between Lewisham & Bromley My second new route involves a route connecting Orpington and Eltham but I'm still working out a routing and the subsequent changes it might enforce on other routes Nice idea, but tampering with the 320 is a massively bad idea for 2 reasons - a) It's the main service to Biggin Hill from Bromley. The 246 is a much slower alternative and wouldn't cope with the extra loadings, and b) the residents of Biggin Hill were up in arms at the 320 being extended to Catford. They ended up with their MP on the case. If they lost their main service to Bromley hell would break loose I think he meant curtail the 320 at Bromley North from the south  I certainly think the Bromley area deserves a route going further north than Lewisham |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 11:08:47 GMT
What would be the point of an express route via route 50 when the 109 is quicker Route 50 is the fastest route into Croydon from Streatham. It normally beats the 109 by a few minutes, it's also faster than the 60 and 250, hence why it would be the best choice.  But not when Palace are at home  Yes probably not a lot of difference either way at other times, most people probably just get whatever bus comes first. I still think the 109/159 would be better for an express route though, also wider roads making passing other buses a lot easier. |
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Post by jay38a on Jan 3, 2013 12:31:57 GMT
I think he meant curtail the 320 at Bromley North from the south I certainly think the Bromley area deserves a route going further north than Lewisham Yes, we established that - look further down the thread. It's a shame that 199 to Bromley North thing didn't happen, imagine it was partly because Bromley North is not ideal for shoppers, and partly because that would be one hell of a route. The traffic of Greenwich wouldn't help either, so I agree that via the 47 is a more sensible option. Extending the 47 would give Bromley a link to Zone 1 but it would make it an very long route and would be very unreliable, saying that the 47 did used to reach TB prior to 1985 with extensions to Farnborough but of course traffic conditions then were totally different to now. |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 3, 2013 13:42:05 GMT
New route 456
Wandsworth (East Hill), Southfields, Haydon's Road Station, Queens Road, Wimbledon, Merton Park, Wimbledon Chase, Raynes Park, Shannon Corner, New Malden, A3 to Tolworth Broadway
12-15 minutes day, 20 minutes evening/sundays
LWB single deckers or SWB double decker
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 17:37:25 GMT
I think he meant curtail the 320 at Bromley North from the south I certainly think the Bromley area deserves a route going further north than Lewisham Yes, we established that - look further down the thread. It's a shame that 199 to Bromley North thing didn't happen, imagine it was partly because Bromley North is not ideal for shoppers, and partly because that would be one hell of a route. The traffic of Greenwich wouldn't help either, so I agree that via the 47 is a more sensible option. It was because there was insufficient stand space at Bromley North and extending it to Bromley Common was seen as not viable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 17:39:35 GMT
Yes, we established that - look further down the thread. It's a shame that 199 to Bromley North thing didn't happen, imagine it was partly because Bromley North is not ideal for shoppers, and partly because that would be one hell of a route. The traffic of Greenwich wouldn't help either, so I agree that via the 47 is a more sensible option. Extending the 47 would give Bromley a link to Zone 1 but it would make it an very long route and would be very unreliable, saying that the 47 did used to reach TB prior to 1985 with extensions to Farnborough but of course traffic conditions then were totally different to now. Making it a long route doesn't mean it would be very unreliable, there are far more bus lanes nowadays. |
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Post by Paul on Jan 4, 2013 14:26:23 GMT
My second new route involves a route connecting Orpington and Eltham but I'm still working out a routing and the subsequent changes it might enforce on other routes Maybe just send the 126 to Orpington via the 358 and cut the 358 back to Bromley South? Then maybe extend the 358 beyond Crystal Palace to create another cross-Crystal Palace service? That would make the 126 rather loopy and the connection between Orpington and Eltham wouldn't exactly be direct! I'm also loathe to mess around with the 358 - it seems to work as it is. Possibly the only thing I would do is to add a handful of journies at night and make it a 24hr route For the Orpington/Eltham connection I was thinking more along the lines of using the A20 and providing the area around Flamingo Park (and a new nightclub I believe I saw last time I drove along the A20) with a direct bus rather than needing to cross the A20 having used a 321. Possibly something along the lines of Orpington - Sevenoaks Way - Crittalls Corner - A20 - Mottingham Station - Eltham and then possibly on to North Greenwich. That one still might need some work though I think paul is more suggesting the 320 goes back to how it was before Biggin Hill to Bromley North only. That's exactly what Paul was suggesting My personal opinion is that extending the 320 to Catford hasn't worked and that we are carrying far more people on the 208 than we should be. For example, last week I had a Saturday duty on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Monday and on my first two trips back from Lewisham a 320 appeared behind me at the top of Bromley Hill and while I was loaded he was sailing through practically empty. And this happened on all four days! Either the 320 is ridiculously timed or Metrobus drivers don't want to do any work and are leaving Catford late so we clear the road. This has turned into a bit of a rant hasn't it? I'll get back to the topic in hand...... My other problem here is that a route from Canada Water to Bromley would be rather long. My thoughts on the matter are the best idea is a direct and quick link to the London Overground ELL, which provides a quicker and more direct link to Canada Water. Sitting on the 227 or 358 for 30-45 minutes for Crystal Palace is less than ideal and it's no wonder it's considered easier to change at Lewisham Long in terms of distance or time? Because in terms of distance Bromley Garage to Canada Water via my proposed routing is about the same length as the 208 is in doing Orpington to Lewisham and in terms of time, it's rather rudimentary but adding together the time taken for the 208 to do The Crown to Lewisham and then the time taken for the 47 to do Lewisham to Canada Water (plus 3 minutes for the Crown to TB) gives a peak hour journey time of 71 minutes compared to the 208s full journey time of 73 minutes A quick direct link to the Overground is the intention. Like I say, a lot of people change between a 208 and either a 47 or 199 in the peaks. It's only assumption that says they are using Canada Water but it seems a fairly safe one and these people are set on using a direct bus route to do so, so why not provide one? This idea occurred to me as well. It might also take a little pressure off the 227 which can only be a good thing. I would have thought Forest Hill would make a better terminus and I believe there's already an unused stand in the area. I still think that people would rather a direct bus link into Canada Water though. Whilst we might know it's 'shorter' to go via Beckenham and Sydenham the perception would be that's it's going around the houses. It also means those on Bromley Hill and in Downham don't benefit from the direct bus link to the Overground either at Canada Water or Sydenham; they would still have to change |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 21:50:55 GMT
Route 400
Heathrow T5 - Ealing , via
Cargo , T4, Bedfont Green , via 116 to Hounslow Bus station, then London Road , Syon Lane , Windmill Lane, Ealing Hospital , West Ealing , Ealing Broadway.
Single decks , x 12 mins Mon-sat daytime, x 15 mins evenings and Sundays.
London United - HH
(Associated change to 116 )
116 - extended from Ashford Hospital - Stanies , reduced in frequency to x 20 mins daily , x 30 mins evening
Route 218
Kingston - Stanies - replacing the Abellio routes, via Portsmouth Road, Esher, Hersham, Walton & Laleham. Summer Sats & Suns extended to Thorpe Park.
Single decks - x 15 mins Mon-Sat daytime, x 30 mins evenings and Sundays ( except Summer Sundays increased to x 20 mins )
London United - TV
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 22:04:28 GMT
I would also make the 638 school route more of a daily service , from Orpington to Anerley Station via Sevenoaks Way, Sidcup By Pass, Perry STreet, Chislehurst , Mottingham Road , Grove Park Road, Chinbrook Road, Downham Way, Bromley Road , Southend lane, Sydenham Road , Kent House Road , Theisger Road , Green Lane, High Street Penge , Oakfield Road to terminate at Anerley Station.
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Post by jay38a on Jan 4, 2013 22:15:09 GMT
Route 218 Kingston - Stanies - replacing the Abellio routes, via Portsmouth Road, Esher, Hersham, Walton & Laleham. Summer Sats & Suns extended to Thorpe Park. Single decks - x 15 mins Mon-Sat daytime, x 30 mins evenings and Sundays ( except Summer Sundays increased to x 20 mins ) London United - TV TfL did have a route that used to serve Thorpe Park (it was either the 216 or 203, cant remember which one), but it was withdrawn because commercial operators kicked up a fuss, so that part would be a no go. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 4, 2013 22:23:40 GMT
I would also make the 638 school route more of a daily service , from Orpington to Anerley Station via Sevenoaks Way, Sidcup By Pass, Perry STreet, Chislehurst , Mottingham Road , Grove Park Road, Chinbrook Road, Downham Way, Bromley Road , Southend lane, Sydenham Road , Kent House Road , Theisger Road , Green Lane, High Street Penge , Oakfield Road to terminate at Anerley Station. Kent House Road has a low bridge so the 638 would have to downgrade to single deckers plus the terminus at Anerley isn't that big and already houses the 249 & 432. |
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Post by Paul on Jan 4, 2013 22:45:04 GMT
I would also make the 638 school route more of a daily service , from Orpington to Anerley Station via Sevenoaks Way, Sidcup By Pass, Perry STreet, Chislehurst , Mottingham Road , Grove Park Road, Chinbrook Road, Downham Way, Bromley Road , Southend lane, Sydenham Road , Kent House Road , Theisger Road , Green Lane, High Street Penge , Oakfield Road to terminate at Anerley Station. Kent House Road has a low bridge so the 638 would have to downgrade to single deckers plus the terminus at Anerley isn't that big and already houses the 249 & 432. They would already be single deckers by the time they get to Kent House Road since the low bridge on Southend Lane would have taken care of the upper deck! ;D And with regards the Anerley terminus, haven't we already decided the 432 is being extended to Elmers End? Actually, I think basing a route on the 638 is a bit of a non-starter. If Grove Park Road warranted an all-day service I'm sure TfL would already have provided one. I don't think there's been an all-day service along there in years, although I do vaguely remember going to work with my dad on a 126 and serving Grove Park Road before it was diverted along Dunkery Road (just checked and thankfully londonbuses.co.uk bears me out!). Other parts of the proposed route are already sufficiently served with buses. I think the only plus point - and it's a big one to be fair - is that it helps to connect Downham with the Overground. Hmmmmmm, where have we heard that one before? ;D ~ EDIT ~ Further investigation shows that the proposed routing by rgd976 doesn't include the part of Kent House Road that has the low bridge. The route would still need single deckers due to the low bridge at Southend Lane though |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 5, 2013 3:55:47 GMT
Kent House Road has a low bridge so the 638 would have to downgrade to single deckers plus the terminus at Anerley isn't that big and already houses the 249 & 432. They would already be single deckers by the time they get to Kent House Road since the low bridge on Southend Lane would have taken care of the upper deck! ;D And with regards the Anerley terminus, haven't we already decided the 432 is being extended to Elmers End? Actually, I think basing a route on the 638 is a bit of a non-starter. If Grove Park Road warranted an all-day service I'm sure TfL would already have provided one. I don't think there's been an all-day service along there in years, although I do vaguely remember going to work with my dad on a 126 and serving Grove Park Road before it was diverted along Dunkery Road (just checked and thankfully londonbuses.co.uk bears me out!). Other parts of the proposed route are already sufficiently served with buses. I think the only plus point - and it's a big one to be fair - is that it helps to connect Downham with the Overground. Hmmmmmm, where have we heard that one before? ;D ~ EDIT ~ Further investigation shows that the proposed routing by rgd976 doesn't include the part of Kent House Road that has the low bridge. The route would still need single deckers due to the low bridge at Southend Lane though Forgot all about Southend Lane & it's notorious low bridge.  In my plans, the 417 would be extended from Crystal Palace to Anerley to make a bit of space at Palace ;D |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 5, 2013 3:58:59 GMT
Someone was discussing extending the 358 beyond Palace. That route is unsuitable but I like the idea so was thinking an extension of the 227 could work instead. The only problem is how far past Palace would you extend it.
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