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Post by DT 11 on Dec 15, 2013 23:04:27 GMT
Out of interest, how often do you actually use the U7? If the U7 went the direct way (already served by other routes from Uxbridge) then the route would have no purpose! I have been on the U7 many times packed to the door so not sure how that can be seen as a useless service! I shouldn't have called the U7 useless but I fail to see how such a route which is used a lot is half-hourly with a PVR of 4! If the route is used a lot by people then the route should be at least every 15 minutes rather than 30 especially if it passes an estate served by only one route. I have only used the U7 once end to end   and it criss-crosses the main roads a lot. What does "half hourly service" and a PVR of 4 have to do with a route being pointless? A low PVR and Low frequency does not necessarily mean that a route is pointless.... Shouldn't it be more about usage... R7 uses 1 bus and is quite well used. It is most of the time driver by the same driver which most of the passengers know by name, now drives the route under Stagecoach. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Dec 16, 2013 1:25:51 GMT
I shouldn't have called the U7 useless but I fail to see how such a route which is used a lot is half-hourly with a PVR of 4! If the route is used a lot by people then the route should be at least every 15 minutes rather than 30 especially if it passes an estate served by only one route. I have only used the U7 once end to end and it criss-crosses the main roads a lot. What does "half hourly service" and a PVR of 4 have to do with a route being pointless? A low PVR and Low frequency does not necessarily mean that a route is pointless.... Shouldn't it be more about usage... R7 uses 1 bus and is quite well used. It is most of the time driver by the same driver which most of the passengers know by name, now drives the route under Stagecoach. There's no better example than the X26, which despite being the longest route in London has a PVR of 9 and runs half hourly. Yet it is almost always packed (especially at peak times) The 129 is more of a 'round the corner link' rather than a 'mainline' route, which are the only route linking two areas (e.g. 111). Indeed I was on a 180 last week and the 129 was stopping at every stop. This one, and the couple I saw running to Greenwich were all Es. Had it been extended to Peckham, then it would've been more of useful route (and would've made double deck operation more suitable) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 5:44:02 GMT
I really don't understand why the x26 isn't double decked or increased in frequency....
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Post by snoggle on Dec 16, 2013 11:06:42 GMT
Out of the 8 bus routes that serve North Greenwich, in terms of passenger numbers, where does the 129 come in? It comes last out of the 8 but it is the shortest and least frequent service out of those 8 routes although there are 11 routes if you include the night variants. The others are long trunk services which have are always going to have more patronage. They have also been in operation for far longer so will have a good base level of patronage along their length. None of this serves to undermine the usefulness of the 129. 1. 188 8m pax pa 2. 472 7m pax pa 3. 422 5.2m pax pa 4. 161 4.5m pax pa 5. 486 4.1m pax pa 6. 108 3.5m pax pa 7. 132 2.9m pax pa 8. 129 0.77m pax pa 9. N188 0.175 pax pa 10. N108 0.124 pax pa 11. N472 0.054 pax pa |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 16:02:02 GMT
It seems like the 129 is being called pointless by people that have never had to rely on it to get to places, or probably even used it much. If you lived around Greenwich I doubt you'd be calling it pointless... I live 15 mins away from Greenwich and I still find it pointless. I think we all have to agree to disagree on this one because IMO, I just don't see the need for it when it doesn't have a link for itself and overlaps other routes eg. 188, 422, 108/132/161/472/486. For me between Greenwich and North Greenwich, I haven't seen the 188 overcrowded and the route is my main link to get to somewhere like North Greenwich from my house. Most people tend to rely on the Jubilee Line from North Greenwich when going to somewhere in the city rather than taking 188. So I personally don't see the need for it. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2013 19:11:51 GMT
It seems like the 129 is being called pointless by people that have never had to rely on it to get to places, or probably even used it much. If you lived around Greenwich I doubt you'd be calling it pointless... I live 15 mins away from Greenwich and I still find it pointless. I think we all have to agree to disagree on this one because IMO, I just don't see the need for it when it doesn't have a link for itself and overlaps other routes eg. 188, 422, 108/132/161/472/486. For me between Greenwich and North Greenwich, I haven't seen the 188 overcrowded and the route is my main link to get to somewhere like North Greenwich from my house. Most people tend to rely on the Jubilee Line from North Greenwich when going to somewhere in the city rather than taking 188. So I personally don't see the need for it. I'm not sure what 188 you board - I used it during peak hours between Greenwich & North Greenwich on many occasions and it led me to avoid it in the end due to its overcrowding and me actually having to let buses go so I started taking the 129 instead where I can actually board the bus. And that was during the time when it ran with the troublesome Electrocitys under Travel London. |
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Post by Connor on Dec 16, 2013 19:41:09 GMT
In an area (North Greenwich and Greenwich), where the passenger numbers PA hovers around the 3-4 million mark, the 0.77m for the 129 really does speak for itself. The 188 has average/below average loadings (and the 129 empty) 80% of the time I go on it, the whole "regular severe crowding on the 188 and therefore we need the 129" thing is just being played out by certain members! Extra journeys (similar to the 108's double decker night workings) between North Greenwich and Cutty Sark on the 188, depending on when the 129 is busiest, would sort this out and get rid of this useless route. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 19:52:32 GMT
I live 15 mins away from Greenwich and I still find it pointless. I think we all have to agree to disagree on this one because IMO, I just don't see the need for it when it doesn't have a link for itself and overlaps other routes eg. 188, 422, 108/132/161/472/486. For me between Greenwich and North Greenwich, I haven't seen the 188 overcrowded and the route is my main link to get to somewhere like North Greenwich from my house. Most people tend to rely on the Jubilee Line from North Greenwich when going to somewhere in the city rather than taking 188. So I personally don't see the need for it. I'm not sure what 188 you board - I used it during peak hours between Greenwich & North Greenwich on many occasions and it led me to avoid it in the end due to its overcrowding and me actually having to let buses go so I started taking the 129 instead where I can actually board the bus. And that was during the time when it ran with the troublesome Electrocitys under Travel London. I board the same 188 that has been and currently run under Travel London & Abellio since the introduction of 129 (the Greenwich version)  |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 19:56:57 GMT
In an area (North Greenwich and Greenwich), where the passenger numbers PA hovers around the 3-4 million mark, the 0.77m for the 129 really does speak for itself. The 188 has average/below average loadings (and the 129 empty) 80% of the time I go on it, the whole "regular severe crowding on the 188 and therefore we need the 129" thing is just being played out by certain members! Extra journeys (similar to the 108's double decker night workings) between North Greenwich and Cutty Sark on the 188, depending on when the 129 is busiest, would sort this out and get rid of this useless route. I absolutely agree. People take the 129 from Greenwich for 129's sake because it's there. Maybe some people urgently need to get to North Greenwich and can't wait for a 188 so they take 129. I have been on the 129 during the Summer this year end to end and only 8 people went on the bus (including me) from start to end. As well as that I have also used the route a few times and it isn't crowded. What should be done is that 188's frequency and PVR should be increased also during peak times and 129 withdrawn. There are already 5 bus links from North Greenwich for people to get to places like the Odeon Cinema and Sainsbury's and also the 108 and 422 to East Greenwich. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2013 19:59:22 GMT
ob1234 - And roughly what time did you board this journey that resulted in 8 people?
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 20:01:42 GMT
ob1234 - And roughly what time did you board this journey that resulted in 8 people? I said during the Summer this year which is a very busy season. Also especially around a place like Greenwich. |
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Post by Jack on Dec 16, 2013 20:13:13 GMT
As a greenwich uni student, I always pick the 129 over the 188 to get to North Greenwich......
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Post by Connor on Dec 16, 2013 20:15:08 GMT
As a greenwich uni student, I always pick the 129 over the 188 to get to North Greenwich...... But why, that is the question? Would it be the end of the world if you took the 188 instead? |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 20:21:55 GMT
As a greenwich uni student, I always pick the 129 over the 188 to get to North Greenwich...... But why, that is the question? Would it be the end of the world if you took the 188 instead? Exactly, the 188 goes straight on from Tunnel Avenue and after the Tunnel Avenue roundabout and there's no traffic there unless there's an event at the O2. The 129 goes the long way and the traffic lights at the turning into North Greenwich Station is long aswell. Also Greenwich Peninsula has traffic aswell which is worse than Tunnel Avenue as that has a bus lane. |
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Post by Jack on Dec 16, 2013 20:23:25 GMT
As a greenwich uni student, I always pick the 129 over the 188 to get to North Greenwich...... But why, that is the question? Would it be the end of the world if you took the 188 instead? I like the little tag team you and Ob have going on  .....Why.....because I want to and it my choice what bus I get on |
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and it criss-crosses the main roads a lot.
.....Why.....because I want to and it my choice what bus I get on