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Post by Jack on Dec 16, 2013 20:26:56 GMT
In an area (North Greenwich and Greenwich), where the passenger numbers PA hovers around the 3-4 million mark, the 0.77m for the 129 really does speak for itself. The 188 has average/below average loadings (and the 129 empty) 80% of the time I go on it, the whole "regular severe crowding on the 188 and therefore we need the 129" thing is just being played out by certain members! Extra journeys (similar to the 108's double decker night workings) between North Greenwich and Cutty Sark on the 188, depending on when the 129 is busiest, would sort this out and get rid of this useless route. "Played out by certain members"? It would be nice if we could have a debate on here that didn't descend into a female dogfest. I've made no such suggestion of severe crowding on the 188, but it is certainly a busy route. Anyway, isn't the 129 essentially "extra workings" between N Greenwich and Greenwich anyway, providing an otherwise unserved link from the Peninsula to Greenwich town centre? Moving capacity from one route to another doing the same thing, while breaking a local link is a pointless exercise. The reason the loadings are only a quarter of other routes is because the length is only a quarter of the other routes. Spread out loadings of 3-4m over a long route and the number of people per bus is fairly low. Spread it over a short route where people are likely to ride it end to end and it's fairly high. It would be interesting to construct a comparison of routes based on their passenger numbers proportional to their PVR as it's linked to frequency and route length. That would be fair to logical...it is much easier to sit behind a screen and complain about peoples opinions!   |
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Post by Connor on Dec 16, 2013 20:48:52 GMT
But why, that is the question? Would it be the end of the world if you took the 188 instead? I like the little tag team you and Ob have going on .....Why.....because I want to and it my choice what bus I get on Bigheaded much? If you CHOOSE to use the 129 over the 188, then the overcrowding on the issue, which is what the 'debate' is about, gets thrown out of the window. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 20:55:09 GMT
But why, that is the question? Would it be the end of the world if you took the 188 instead? I like the little tag team you and Ob have going on .....Why.....because I want to and it my choice what bus I get on There is no tag team going on  Maybe we just feel that the 129 is pointless but other members feel that 129 is useful. Everybody has their own opinion and it's perfectly fine if you take 129 over 188. |
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Post by Jack on Dec 16, 2013 20:57:11 GMT
I like the little tag team you and Ob have going on .....Why.....because I want to and it my choice what bus I get on Bigheaded much? If you CHOOSE to use the 129 over the 188, then the overcrowding on the issue, which is what the 'debate' is about, gets thrown out of the window. No need to patronise me guys! Not quite sure how picking to choose one route over another makes someone bigheaded but there we go! This is clearly going to keep going around in a pointless loop so as the dragons would say, "I'm out"! |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2013 21:09:12 GMT
ob1234 - And roughly what time did you board this journey that resulted in 8 people? I said during the Summer this year which is a very busy season. Also especially around a place like Greenwich. The phrase 'what time' refers to the time as in '1 o'clock' not season lol. |
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 16, 2013 21:16:18 GMT
I really don't know why this 129 discussion has got so out of hand.
@mredd has already hit the nail on the head by stating it is the only link from Millennium Village & Greenwich Pennilsula to Greenwich Town Centre. If it was not for the 129 passengers would have to take TWO Buses. The 188 on the other hand does not even serve the Village or even Peninsula, end of story. The 129 is not pointless to some people, there are far more less used services out there than the 129. Why does the 129 have to be a big issue with many? There is nothing wrong with the route. Let's Carry on this thread with another subject other than how a deluded opinion of the 129 is.
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 21:23:16 GMT
I said during the Summer this year which is a very busy season. Also especially around a place like Greenwich. The phrase 'what time' refers to the time as in '1 o'clock' not season lol. *embarrassed face*  I can't remember, I roughly think it was around 1pm. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Dec 16, 2013 21:25:10 GMT
I really don't know why this 129 discussion has got so out of hand. @mredd has already hit the nail on the head by stating it is the only link from Millennium Village & Greenwich Pennilsula to Greenwich Town Centre. If it was not for the 129 passengers would have to take TWO Buses. The 188 on the other hand does not even serve the Village or even Peninsula, end of story. The 129 is not pointless to some people, there are far more less used services out there than the 129. Why does the 129 have to be a big issue with many? There is nothing wrong with the route. Let's Carry on this thread with another subject other than how a deluded opinion of the 129 is. Well lets all agree to disagree as I said earlier on and move on. But I personally think that there is no need for the 129 IMO.
MODS MSG Lets all move along please. Sometimes there is no rationale behind a choice - when travelling to Palmers Green I would prefer a 329 rather than a 121 or 29...I don't why, I just did! RM5Chris |
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Post by Connor on Dec 16, 2013 21:37:59 GMT
If it was not for the 129 passengers would have to take TWO Buses. Keeping a short route running to save people from the MASSIVE task of changing onto another bus? Please! Like I said before, wheres the proof to show this link is actually used/needed? Is it important to the majority of 129 users/choosers? there are far more less used services out there than the 129. Kinda silly to compare the passenger numbers of the 129 to passenger numbers on 'less used services out there' (by that you mean suburbs), NOT to passenger numbers of other day bus routes in Greenwich and North Greenwich. Other lesser used services say the 464, serve some pretty unique areas with no other easy means of transport, this isn't the case with the 129 and is therefore irrelevant. YAWN!!! |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 16, 2013 21:46:57 GMT
In an area (North Greenwich and Greenwich), where the passenger numbers PA hovers around the 3-4 million mark, the 0.77m for the 129 really does speak for itself. The 188 has average/below average loadings (and the 129 empty) 80% of the time I go on it, the whole "regular severe crowding on the 188 and therefore we need the 129" thing is just being played out by certain members! Extra journeys (similar to the 108's double decker night workings) between North Greenwich and Cutty Sark on the 188, depending on when the 129 is busiest, would sort this out and get rid of this useless route. I answered your previous question about the ranking of the 129 in good faith. I did NOT provide any numbers for bus routes in Greenwich itself - can you say which routes you've included in your calculation and how you define "Greenwich" in order to arrive at your 3-4m pax per annum number? Can you also say what an "average" loading is on the 188? Where do you observe these "averages"? It's also worth making the obvious point that annual ridership stats are for entire routes and ALL of the other routes serving North Greenwich serve other Boroughs where there will be patronage. The 129 (AFAIK) ONLY serves the Borough of Greenwich and doesn't wander elsewhere. Unless you have access to ridership data at Borough level then I am struggling to see how you derived your Greenwich Borough ridership average. I look forward to seeing your detailed workings and analysis to support your averages and calculations. It is completely daft, IMO of course, to try to use your observations on the 188 to rubbish the 129 route. I think we got the message 20 posts ago that you don't "like" the 129. Fine. Should I launch a campaign to say how much I hate route 50 by taking some random observations at Stockwell station and going for a few rides on it? I'd love to see your reaction to that campaign.  Nearly 800,000 journeys for a short route which serves an area still subject to considerable potential development is perfectly reasonable to me. I have set out across a number of posts a load of reasons why picking on a single aspect of a bus route is an unwise way to assess it. If other group members opt to use the 129 then that's their business. It really does not add to nor detract from the validity of the route. To suggest people are "playing out" a thing about a route is daft. They just have a different opinion surely? I have no great feelings for the 129 one way or the other. I've used it a few times and can see its purpose. I've seen it full and nearly empty. Oddly enough exactly the same applies to my journeys on the 188 in the same part of town! |
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 16, 2013 22:16:59 GMT
If it was not for the 129 passengers would have to take TWO Buses. Keeping a short route running to save people from the MASSIVE task of changing onto another bus? Please! Like I said before, wheres the proof to show this link is actually used/needed? Is it important to the majority of 129 users/choosers? there are far more less used services out there than the 129. Kinda silly to compare the passenger numbers of the 129 to passenger numbers on 'less used services out there' (by that you mean suburbs), NOT to passenger numbers of other day bus routes in Greenwich and North Greenwich. Other lesser used services say the 464, serve some pretty unique areas with no other easy means of transport, this isn't the case with the 129 and is therefore irrelevant. I'm done.  One day you will learn. Your not from the Greenwich area so will obviously know nothing about the route lol. Nothing wrong with the 464 either. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2013 22:27:16 GMT
The phrase 'what time' refers to the time as in '1 o'clock' not season lol. *embarrassed face* I can't remember, I roughly think it was around 1pm. Ahh, see that's not peak time so understandably you would get routes that might be a little quiet at that time, particularly at lunchtime. Thanks for clarifying. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 16, 2013 23:49:26 GMT
If it was not for the 129 passengers would have to take TWO Buses. Keeping a short route running to save people from the MASSIVE task of changing onto another bus? Please! Like I said before, wheres the proof to show this link is actually used/needed? Is it important to the majority of 129 users/choosers? there are far more less used services out there than the 129. Kinda silly to compare the passenger numbers of the 129 to passenger numbers on 'less used services out there' (by that you mean suburbs), NOT to passenger numbers of other day bus routes in Greenwich and North Greenwich. Other lesser used services say the 464, serve some pretty unique areas with no other easy means of transport, this isn't the case with the 129 and is therefore irrelevant. I'm done. You're done? Think how the rest of us feel! Well I'm going to start my "route 50 and all the vehicles on it, especially the older ones, is useless" campaign. It will deploy the same elegant and flawless logic and reasoning that you have deployed in your "I hate the 129 and will not listen to any arguments that disagree with me" campaign. This is going to be fun.   |
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Post by Steve09 on Dec 17, 2013 1:26:23 GMT
At the end of the day a topic like this is always going to be controversial as it's based on everyones opinions. Theres no statistics that can measure how 'useless a route is.. "This route is more useless than that route which you say isn't as useless as my route yah yah yah"
Anyway, I don't see 129 as useless. From my observations, even during the off peak it often carries half decent loads - It would benefit from an extension though I must say. I would say the endless parade of buses that you get on some Central London roads such as Oxford Street that are generally empty for a large part of the day are more useless - but thats only my opinion!
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Post by joefrombow on Dec 17, 2013 6:39:30 GMT
How about Extending the 488 via the 108 routing to North Greenwich then via the 129 routing to Cutty Sark ?? this way you would have extra capacity on the 108 between Bow & North Greenwich and the cost wouldn't really be much as you would just combine the PVR's of the two routes maybe add an extra bus during the peaks ,the frequencies on both routes are basically the same 5 buses an hour Mon-Sat daytimes and 3 Evenings and Sundays ?
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Maybe we just feel that the 129 is pointless but other members feel that 129 is useful. Everybody has their own opinion and it's perfectly fine if you take 129 over 188.
I can't remember, I roughly think it was around 1pm.
