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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 19, 2014 9:26:23 GMT
So...hottest day of the year yesterday - ideal day to go NBfL riding Summary of rides - LT90, route 9. Aldwych to Trafalgar Square. Like an oven. Air cooling spewing out hot air. Bad LT8, route 24. Pimlico to Leicester Square. Can't put finger on it, but this newly Euro 6 converted bus sounds subtly different. Cool inside, and a nice ride. LT59, route 11. St. Paul's to Liverpool Street. OK. A bit warm, but no warmer than many other buses. So clearly the cooling issue not entirely solved...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 17:58:39 GMT
Last night i traveled on DNH39115 all windows closed it was lovely and cool. Next came LT91 hot as hell. I had travelled on LT48 earlier and that wasn't much better. I also went on VH5 some windows were open but it was still cool. The cooling system on the DNH and VH was far superior to the LT's even though they have opening windows. I like the NBfL but that is not good enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 18:42:45 GMT
We entered the phase where officialdom are denying its still a problem long ago. Put simply it wont be sorted if they refuse to even admit it exists.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 19, 2014 18:46:41 GMT
I caught a Gemini 2 WVL on the 36 today and had to sit right at the back upstairs as it was well loaded. It was lovely and cool back there despite being above the engine. Shows the system can work on some vehicles.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2014 20:41:33 GMT
I rode 13017 on the 53 and it was pleasantly cool - in stark contrast to LT129 on the 148 which was still hot and had that stupid loud motor that always gives me a headache.
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 19, 2014 20:54:43 GMT
I rode 13017 on the 53 and it was pleasantly cool - in stark contrast to LT129 on the 148 which was still hot and had that stupid loud motor that always gives me a headache. What I find odd is Gemini 2s & 3s have great Aircon systems and the New Failmaster is the complete opposite, all built by Wrightbus.
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Post by rmz19 on Jul 19, 2014 21:39:01 GMT
I make sure I avoid all NB4Ls like a plague during Summer, I never recalled being on a cool NB4L during Summer this year or the previous.
All the other recent bus types in London have reliable Air Con/Air Cooling systems that actually work in the heat, all having their own extents in cooling, but working nonetheless. There is the odd faulty one, but these faults would have been developed unlike the NB4Ls which were faulty to begin with.
I just want to clarify, do they all have issues with their Air Con/Air Cooling systems or do some actually work?
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Post by wrights on Jul 19, 2014 21:59:29 GMT
I finish my work every night around 2400,I avoid 148's BBQ LT directly to elephant castle, I 'd like to spend some more journey time to change bus, I dont think how when I get in 148 LT in sunny day time...'pork belly in griller'?!
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2014 22:45:26 GMT
I make sure I avoid all NB4Ls like a plague during Summer, I never recalled being on a cool NB4L during Summer this year or the previous. All the other recent bus types in London have reliable Air Con/Air Cooling systems that actually work in the heat, all having their own extents in cooling, but working nonetheless. There is the odd faulty one, but these faults would have been developed unlike the NB4Ls which were faulty to begin with. I just want to clarify, do they all have issues with their Air Con/Air Cooling systems or do some actually work? Apparently, a few work but I've certainly not been on any LT that has the air cooling working
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 23:31:44 GMT
Its insane that one has to reply on rumour and word of mouth rather than officialdom to know the truth. It has been explicitly stated that the problems have been fixed - why keep up the lie? How and who will be held to account for it?
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Post by ajw on Jul 20, 2014 1:30:05 GMT
I rode 13017 on the 53 and it was pleasantly cool - in stark contrast to LT129 on the 148 which was still hot and had that stupid loud motor that always gives me a headache. What I find odd is Gemini 2s & 3s have great Aircon systems and the New Failmaster is the complete opposite, all built by Wrightbus. It is because on those buses in London it is forced air ventilation, which is why they have opening windows. The result is windows open, air forced in, hot stale air is removed bus, feels cooler. Clearly the NB4L is refrigerative hence why no opening windows, but clearly an undersized unit for the bus. Probably not helped by the open platform. So IMO it is a total design flaw but maybe not much Wrightbus can do as they would be using TfL specifications.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 20, 2014 1:31:28 GMT
I caught a Gemini 2 WVL on the 36 today and had to sit right at the back upstairs as it was well loaded. It was lovely and cool back there despite being above the engine. Shows the system can work on some vehicles. The back upstairs on those buses is the best spot in the summer Nice air con, and a cool breeze.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jul 20, 2014 10:00:00 GMT
What I find odd is Gemini 2s & 3s have great Aircon systems and the New Failmaster is the complete opposite, all built by Wrightbus. It is because on those buses in London it is forced air ventilation, which is why they have opening windows. The result is windows open, air forced in, hot stale air is removed bus, feels cooler. Clearly the NB4L is refrigerative hence why no opening windows, but clearly an undersized unit for the bus. Probably not helped by the open platform. So IMO it is a total design flaw but maybe not much Wrightbus can do as they would be using TfL specifications. I dont quite get what you are saying. Your saying windows have to be open for the air cooling system to work. This is true for buses without cooling systems like the the tridents that I have to survive in. The air outside is cooler than inside. Based on my experience this is not true for buses with cooling systems. The coolest buses that I have been on have had all windows closed. Why would you want the cool air generated inside the bus to go outside? If the bus is cooler then people will generally give out less heat as well. I agree that the NB4L are suffering from design flaws rather than it not having opening windows causing issue.
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Post by ajw on Jul 20, 2014 10:12:49 GMT
I dont quite get what you are saying. Your saying windows have to be open for the air cooling system to work. This is true for buses without cooling systems like the the tridents that I have to survive in. The air outside is cooler than inside. Based on my experience this is not true for buses with cooling systems. The coolest buses that I have been on have had all windows closed. Why would you want the cool air generated inside the bus to go outside? If the bus is cooler then people will generally give out less heat as well. I agree that the NB4L are suffering from design flaws rather than it not having opening windows causing issue. No I didn't say windows had to be open for an air cooling system to work. I said they had to be open on forced air ventilation systems I made a clear differentiation between the two types of air cooling systems installed on London buses, vis forced air ventilation and refrigerative. Most if not all the non NB4L double deckers in London with 'air cooling systems' have a forced air ventilation system, though many on here constantly refer to these as air-conditioning, when it is not, it does nothing to condition the air, it just moves the air. These work on the principle of removing hot stale air by forcing new outside air in thus reducing the ambient temperature. This also gives those close enough to the outlets movement of air over the skin which causes evaporation which aids ones feeling of coldness, like standing in front of a fan. To work properly it needs all windows open to vent the stale air. If windows are shut then some, near the source of the unit, ie the back seat as many here say is good will be the only ones getting any cooling and it will be through evaporation, whereas if the windows were open that person may not have as much cooling effect but overall the bus will be more comfortable for all. Getting OT a litte my house at home in Aus has a variation of forced air called evaporative cooling, it works by drawing air in from outside through pads that are soaked in water, it then uses the forced air principle to expel the stale air out of the house. In climates that are not humid (inland Canberra being one) it works great, though in more humid climates such as London (average of 90%) the air contains enough water to not need the water pads, hence what is installed on many buses in London. The other type is refrigerative air-conditioning which works on a closed loop system so requires all windows shut. By the looks of it NB4L has a small refigerative system on the top deck only. To cool a bus the size of NB4L properly would require a system with airconditiong pack BIGGER than the pod like the one in the bus below. Note half the unit is actually inside the bus, not really practical on a decker. Where deckers do have full sized refigerative systems they are normally in front of or above the engine bay and take up at least one row of seats. Not something TfL would be happy with. i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/Busabout/SydneyBuses2457STCustomCoachesCB80bodiedScaniaK280UBonOlympicBoulevardatSydneyOlympicPark.jpg
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2014 10:55:55 GMT
I caught a Gemini 2 WVL on the 36 today and had to sit right at the back upstairs as it was well loaded. It was lovely and cool back there despite being above the engine. Shows the system can work on some vehicles. The back upstairs on those buses is the best spot in the summer Nice air con, and a cool breeze. After riding a 134 VW last Saturday, I absolutely agree. An underrated vehicle for air cooling is the 900 series Metrobus Omnidekkas - upstairs is quite cool especially at the rear or if you sit in front of the staircase on the right hand side.
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