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Post by vjaska on Jun 30, 2013 20:54:50 GMT
But if money is being spent to have window opennings installed for the NBFL then how can it be a waste? Surely having opening windows will counteract the air conditioning. I hate this problem on all buses, where the air con is on but the windows open. The coolest buses I have been on have A) a working air conditioner and B) Closed Windows. They should just fix the air con on the NB4L's. Not sure what buses you've been on that have working air conditioners in London, majority are quite rubbish at keeping people cool from my own experiences - maybe I'm very unlucky . Omnidekka's seem to be good if you sit in the right spot - I recommend the front upstairs on the right hand side.
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Post by smiler52 on Jun 30, 2013 21:06:38 GMT
Surely having opening windows will counteract the air conditioning. I hate this problem on all buses, where the air con is on but the windows open. The coolest buses I have been on have A) a working air conditioner and B) Closed Windows. They should just fix the air con on the NB4L's. Not sure what buses you've been on that have working air conditioners in London, majority are quite rubbish at keeping people cool from my own experiences - maybe I'm very unlucky . Omnidekka's seem to be good if you sit in the right spot - I recommend the front upstairs on the right hand side. I find the a/c or force air on the b9tl and b5lh good
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 21:22:04 GMT
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Post by T.R. on Jun 30, 2013 21:24:19 GMT
Omnicities are okay depending on where you sit. Back to the NBfL, I had a ride on the 24 yesterday, and to be honest I've been on the rant bandwagon too
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Post by Connor on Jun 30, 2013 22:39:23 GMT
Not sure what buses you've been on that have working air conditioners in London, majority are quite rubbish at keeping people cool from my own experiences - maybe I'm very unlucky . Omnidekka's seem to be good if you sit in the right spot - I recommend the front upstairs on the right hand side. I find the a/c or force air on the b9tl and b5lh good +1 I find the Go Ahead's Gemini 2/ Gemini 2 Hybrids have the best air con of any London buses.
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Post by VPL630 on Jul 1, 2013 9:56:31 GMT
Explain to me this, how comes air con works in china, singapore and other places and on like all of there buses but yet we over here can't even get it Wright with one type of bus
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 1, 2013 10:01:03 GMT
Explain to me this, how comes air con works in china, singapore and other places and on like all of there buses but yet we over here can't even get it Wright with one type of bus There's an old saying: "Buy cheap buy twice."
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Post by snoggle on Jul 1, 2013 10:39:52 GMT
Explain to me this, how comes air con works in china, singapore and other places and on like all of there buses but yet we over here can't even get it Wright with one type of bus Well Hong Kong and Singapore have decades of experience of having air conditioning on their vehicles. They have very beefy air con systems that create fridge like conditions in the buses - much appreciated when it is dripping hot outside. I am not convinced that the NB4L has air conditioning. I think it has some sort of enhanced "air cooling" system which is not the same thing at all. I think the NB4L is too heavy courtesy of batteries, second staircase and engine to actually have full air con as in the Far East. The open platform creates an "opening" which will hamper the effective working of proper air con. There are no hybrid buses in Singapore and Hong Kong which I think points to the problem - my guess is that the extra weight of a hybrid and full air con kit cannot be carried on a two or three axle double decker as things currently stand. I also suspect that the small engines on hybrids could not move a fully loaded 12m bus *and* provide power for the air con system. If the batteries were to provide assistance then you'd probably need more batteries thus increasing weight and possibly reducing passenger capacity. This is the opposite of what the bus cos in the Far East need. Hong Kong also has very strict axle loading regulations. Does anyone imagine that KMB, SBS Transit, HK Citybus / NWFB or SMRT are going to buy NB4Ls when they cannot run in London with adequate ventilation? It is worth bearing in mind that Metroline is owned by a Singapore company that owns SBS Transit - the majority bus company in Singapore! Therefore they have access to first hand info about what is going on with the NB4L. Alexander Dennis and Wrightbus, of course, have built thousands of Alexander, Enviro and Gemini bodied double deckers for HK and Singapore with lovely chilly *working* air conditioning. The problem is that the NB4L is not designed by a bus company. It is designed by a "designer" with a focus on the aesthetics rather than function. What's worse is that it is far too late to put things right in any fundamental sense. We know that Alexander Dennis and Volvo / Wright are working on lighter vehicles to reduce fuel consumption. I suspect a side effect of putting bus design "on a diet" is that an air con hybrid bus might become achieveable for Far East export markets but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by ajw on Jul 1, 2013 10:53:40 GMT
But if money is being spent to have window opennings installed for the NBFL then how can it be a waste? I think the windows are partly structural (in the sence that they add stiffness) to the bodyshell. Adding opening windows will mean strengthening the frames and that will add weight (well above the centre of gravity). Its already overweight so capacity had to be reduced from 87 to 80. More realistically got to sort out the a/c, it works on the buses Wrightbus build for Hong Kong so it suggests either a gassing problem or inferior compressors etc were used on this model. Does the Borismaster have real refrigerate aircon like, as you mention is used in Hong Kong or is forced ventilation like most of the so called air-conditioned buses in London?
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Post by ajw on Jul 1, 2013 10:57:06 GMT
Surely having opening windows will counteract the air conditioning. I hate this problem on all buses, where the air con is on but the windows open. The coolest buses I have been on have A) a working air conditioner and B) Closed Windows. They should just fix the air con on the NB4L's. Not sure what buses you've been on that have working air conditioners in London, majority are quite rubbish at keeping people cool from my own experiences - maybe I'm very unlucky . Omnidekka's seem to be good if you sit in the right spot - I recommend the front upstairs on the right hand side. That would be because most if not all London buses that have 'air con' have forced air ventilation, not refrigerative air-conditioning. Forced air ventilation is just a fan that helps move the warm stale air out of the bus, hence why those buses also have opening windows. If that air cannot get out the bus will warm up and the ventilation becomes useless. For refrigerative systems the vehicle needs to be sealed and the air is cooled by removing heat.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 1, 2013 11:38:04 GMT
Explain to me this, how comes air con works in china, singapore and other places and on like all of there buses but yet we over here can't even get it Wright with one type of bus There's an old saying: "Buy cheap buy twice." or as Wrightbus told Boris and Leon 'buy one, get one free!'
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 1, 2013 13:06:10 GMT
There's an old saying: "Buy cheap buy twice." or as Wrightbus told Boris and Leon 'buy one, get one free!' On a serious note, does anyone know of any previous Wrightbus which had A/C fitted as a specification item? Surely the sub contracted supplier would have had inputs during the R&D stage? I'm wondering more and more that this bus was built in N.I. for political reasons. Was at Victoria Coach Station Saturday waiting for my grandson, notice that virtually all the National coaches that arrived were Caetano manufactured. I asked my grandson, who'd travelled from Plymouth, "What was the air conditioning like?" He said "OK it worked."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 14:33:25 GMT
I have not been on a NBfL, but suspect it is not the same as HK air con as there is not a third axle. I think the windows are partly structural (in the sence that they add stiffness) to the bodyshell. Adding opening windows will mean strengthening the frames and that will add weight (well above the centre of gravity). Its already overweight so capacity had to be reduced from 87 to 80. More realistically got to sort out the a/c, it works on the buses Wrightbus build for Hong Kong so it suggests either a gassing problem or inferior compressors etc were used on this model. Does the Borismaster have real refrigerate aircon like, as you mention is used in Hong Kong or is forced ventilation like most of the so called air-conditioned buses in London?
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 1, 2013 14:46:12 GMT
or as Wrightbus told Boris and Leon 'buy one, get one free!' On a serious note, does anyone know of any previous Wrightbus which had A/C fitted as a specification item? Surely the sub contracted supplier would have had inputs during the R&D stage got the contract signed off so they can shift 600 'Factory Second' units at a knockdown price to keep costs low? I'm wondering more and more that this bus was built in N.I. for political reasons. FTFY I think Wright have been in NI for as long as I remember, the Renaults that used to be on the E3 had NI plates, and that was back in 1990. TBH they're not bad, I think anything as intricate and complex as a bus will have teething problems (babies who are teething have high temperatures, ironically ) Hopefully BoJo will iron this out before the lot for the 11 hit our streets... The Scum said we're due a hot July and August, so hopefully this will be dealt with pronto... As for the political reasons, perhaps DW411 is a political prisoner She was taken from the mainland and never seen again
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 1, 2013 15:13:51 GMT
On a serious note, does anyone know of any previous Wrightbus which had A/C fitted as a specification item? Surely the sub contracted supplier would have had inputs during the R&D stage got the contract signed off so they can shift 600 'Factory Second' units at a knockdown price to keep costs low? I'm wondering more and more that this bus was built in N.I. for political reasons. FTFY I think Wright have been in NI for as long as I remember, the Renaults that used to be on the E3 had NI plates, and that was back in 1990. TBH they're not bad, I think anything as intricate and complex as a bus will have teething problems (babies who are teething have high temperatures, ironically ) Hopefully BoJo will iron this out before the lot for the 11 hit our streets... The Scum said we're due a hot July and August, so hopefully this will be dealt with pronto... As for the political reasons, perhaps DW411 is a political prisoner She was taken from the mainland and never seen again According to Wikipedia, the company was founded in 1946 rebodying lorries. Maybe DW411 is running 'round NI deliverying coal?
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