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Post by marlon101 on Jul 5, 2013 17:12:53 GMT
I got on LT9 today, at least this one was blowing out cold air, on both the top and bottom decks but it wasnt powerful enough to really make a difference. The conductor was nice though, he was wishing everyone a nice day when they left the bus via the rear platform, as well as being very cheery on the whole, so thumbs up to him. I reckon he's the chap I came across recently, always nice to see this! Its what conductors health & safety whatsits are really for!
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Post by guybowden on Jul 5, 2013 17:38:36 GMT
After riding from Victoria to Hampstead Heath today, (leaving Victoria at about midday) Only 2 niggles about this bus. 1. when you sit on the last seat on the nearside upper deck, there are no air vents to blow 'cool' air onto you so it got rather warm, although there was a nice little breeze when the bus picked up speed, which wasn't often as it took an hour and a half to get to Hampstead Heath. Second niggle is the seat cushions are too hard.
With regards to the air con, unless there are more/bigger vents and the fans blow out more air it will never keep the temperature cool enough to be comfortable because of the open platform at the back. Hot air rises so it enters the bus at the back, goes straight up the stairs and along the upper deck. With kitchen extraction you have to have a minimum of 85% of fresh air being blown in. (10 cubic meters a second extraction, means you need at lest 8.5 meters a second fresh air) When you enter a restaurant if the door is hard to open then 9 times out of 10 the kitchen ventilation system is not balanced correctly. A simple answer is to have more powerful fans fitted to increase the airflow and slightly larger vents.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 19:46:54 GMT
I got on LT9 today, at least this one was blowing out cold air, on both the top and bottom decks but it wasnt powerful enough to really make a difference. The conductor was nice though, he was wishing everyone a nice day when they left the bus via the rear platform, as well as being very cheery on the whole, so thumbs up to him. I was on LT9 today too and it's about the only one pumping out cold air albeit rather noisily. Returned on LT18, LT17, LT16 and LT15 (in that order!) - LT17 was turned short, LT16 broke down and LT15 just about limped to Victoria - and on none of those was the air con working. Drivers/conductors were telling pax that they had to complain to TfL not them! You do get a (slight) breeze in the seats directly at the top of the stairs however...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 22:29:19 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Jul 5, 2013 22:38:58 GMT
Why should Metroline suffer penalties when it's not there fault?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 22:44:41 GMT
Why should Metroline suffer penalties when it's not there fault? Because they are contracted to run NBFL's on the route. Because the heating and the mechanical problems on the NBFL which is TFL's property. But im sure the WVH's will come back as odd working so people can chill on them.
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2013 0:25:01 GMT
Why should Metroline suffer penalties when it's not there fault? Because they are contracted to run NBFL's on the route. Because the heating and the mechanical problems on the NBFL which is TFL's property. But im sure the WVH's will come back as odd working so people can chill on them. Firstly, there was only 5 VWHs for route 24, Metroline have plans for those VWHs and that is to send them to Willesden (AC) for route 52. Secondly, I doubt there will be any penalties for Metroline because non LT buses stray on the 24. Most garages mix the fleet on routes anyway.
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Post by ajw on Jul 6, 2013 1:34:20 GMT
Why would Metroline get fined for non availability of a bus they don't own? Afterall the Borisheaters are owned by TfL not Metroline. You do realise that the way the Borisheaters are contracted is different to all other normal London routes in relationship to vehicle ownership? If anything Metroline should get compensation from TfL for providing THEM buses that are not up to the job.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 6, 2013 9:13:03 GMT
Why should Metroline suffer penalties when it's not there fault? Because they are contracted to run NBFL's on the route. Because the heating and the mechanical problems on the NBFL which is TFL's property. But im sure the WVH's will come back as odd working so people can chill on them. You've been told before that there are only 5 VWH's and that they are going elsewhere! As you've said above, the air-con & mechanical problems are down to TfL as they own the wretched things so why does that mean Metroline should suffer penalties.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 6, 2013 10:45:42 GMT
Why should Metroline suffer penalties when it's not there fault? Because they are contracted to run NBFL's on the route. Because the heating and the mechanical problems on the NBFL which is TFL's property. But im sure the WVH's will come back as odd working so people can chill on them. If a bus driver turns up for work and there is no serviceable bus for him to drive he's not going to be penalised for not driving as it's not his property. He will still get paid as he has done his part with the task of turning up. Same logic in this case with Metroline regarding the LT's air con situation as they have not done anything to negate its operation. If, for example, the bus suffered a flat tire or ran out of diesel that would be down to the operator as that would be part of their routine maintenance.
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Post by snowman on Jul 6, 2013 11:40:36 GMT
Because they are contracted to run NBFL's on the route. Because the heating and the mechanical problems on the NBFL which is TFL's property. But im sure the WVH's will come back as odd working so people can chill on them. If a bus driver turns up for work and there is no serviceable bus for him to drive he's not going to be penalised for not driving as it's not his property. He will still get paid as he has done his part with the task of turning up. Same logic in this case with Metroline regarding the LT's air con situation as they have not done anything to negate its operation. If, for example, the bus suffered a flat tire or ran out of diesel that would be down to the operator as that would be part of their routine maintenance. I think you are underestimating maintenance. If TfL specify a bus should have a certain fitment then it is expected to be maintained in operational order. This debate was used about 10 years ago with wheelchair ramps, garages didn't maintain them, Press got hold of a story that a number of buses in a row wouldn't take a wheelchair passenger, big stink about it, TfL then rules that it must be proved to work before leaving the garage. If A/c is fitted should also be kept serviceable. The opposite is unacceptable as cant really say didn't bother to replace a headlight bulb or brake pad as it has others on the bus. Are you suggesting Metroline not doing full maintenance on all compulsory parts is ok, (even if a passenger gets heatstroke due to a/c failure)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2013 12:55:51 GMT
I understand Metroline is operating the 24 with TFL's property. (The NBFL's)
Yes the route is contracted in a different way which is Metroline operating the NBFL's which are TFL's property. I would imagine if they operate normal buses (Metrolines property) along the route 24 because the contract is to operate the 24's with TFL's property. Then any problems which is the air conditioner, it is TFL's problem to deal with it.
But are the Citaros on the Red Arrow routes are TFL's property? Or the contract requires Go Ahead Group to buy the buses which TFL's require?
Its complicated to operate buses which are from TFL's property.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 6, 2013 13:53:24 GMT
I understand Metroline is operating the 24 with TFL's property. (The NBFL's) Yes the route is contracted in a different way which is Metroline operating the NBFL's which are TFL's property. I would imagine if they operate normal buses (Metrolines property) along the route 24 because the contract is to operate the 24's with TFL's property. Then any problems which is the air conditioner, it is TFL's problem to deal with it. But are the Citaros on the Red Arrow routes are TFL's property? Or the contract requires Go Ahead Group to buy the buses which TFL's require? Its complicated to operate buses which are from TFL's property. The Citaro's were either leased or bought by Go - Ahead (I remember seeing an ex-London one in Norwich at a VOSA site I was working at) to fulfill the contract at that time.
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Post by londonbusboy on Jul 6, 2013 14:03:01 GMT
Should have lockable opening windows so when the air con breaks rather than taking it out of service the windows can be unlocked and continue running until the air con is fixed.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2013 15:10:20 GMT
If a bus driver turns up for work and there is no serviceable bus for him to drive he's not going to be penalised for not driving as it's not his property. He will still get paid as he has done his part with the task of turning up. Same logic in this case with Metroline regarding the LT's air con situation as they have not done anything to negate its operation. If, for example, the bus suffered a flat tire or ran out of diesel that would be down to the operator as that would be part of their routine maintenance. I think you are underestimating maintenance. If TfL specify a bus should have a certain fitment then it is expected to be maintained in operational order. This debate was used about 10 years ago with wheelchair ramps, garages didn't maintain them, Press got hold of a story that a number of buses in a row wouldn't take a wheelchair passenger, big stink about it, TfL then rules that it must be proved to work before leaving the garage. If A/c is fitted should also be kept serviceable. The opposite is unacceptable as cant really say didn't bother to replace a headlight bulb or brake pad as it has others on the bus. Are you suggesting Metroline not doing full maintenance on all compulsory parts is ok, (even if a passenger gets heatstroke due to a/c failure) I think there are several linked issues here. Firstly were the buses delivered and commissioned to a fit state in full working order? Secondly the buses must surely still be under warranty so it is possible that Metroline are only allowed to do certain maintenance activities with others being the responsibility of Wrightbus (or TfL). Thirdly I have yet to see or hear any detail as to precisely what the responsibilities are with respect to TfL, Metroline and Wrightbus. There MUST be a detailed allocation of responsibilities given the different ownership model for these buses. I do not think anyone is suggesting it is in any way acceptable for Metroline to neglect their maintenance responsibilities. The question is more "what are they responsible for?" If I was Metroline I would never have signed myself up to be the "patsy" who takes the blame for things I have no responisbility for - like a vehicle design which is inadequate or shoddy vehicle manufacture / pre delivery checks! Mike Weston of TfL has apparently said there is "a simple fix" to cure the heat problems on the bus and that they'll all be modified this weekend. This rather begs the question, given a float of 5 buses over the M-F PVR, as to why this "simple fix" has not been done previously. Only a few buses are in service at night so there is surely time to effect this "simple fix" overnight at the garage? They could even do some buses during the day if they wished. The whole thing has been badly managed from a reputational point of view with TfL seemingly allowing the issue to run out of control in the media and TfL making erroneous statements which they've only half corrected in order to avoid massive embarrassment being heaped on the shoulders of certain individuals. Given the entire fleet of prototypes were hoiked off the road last Summer because internal temperatures were dangerously high no one can claim that they could not have seen this overheating problem coming. I'm just glad I do not have to use the 24 on a regular basis.
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