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Post by M1104 on Jan 19, 2022 11:59:12 GMT
I think this whole LTs will have to come of road is utter rubbish. E58-61 up until recently (or maybe still) are running round in an un refurbished state dating from 2007 and the 432 uses buses from 2010 that haven't been done. The northern line used 1959 trains up till the late 90s with original seat maquette so I really think the LTs can do a few more years without having any work done. Many buses have indeed escaped refurbishments for one reason or another, however the LT's refurbishment is/was to involve a bit of an extensive upgrade of the hybrid system of which doesn't appear to be as long term reliable as Volvo and ADL variants of similar age. The LTs as a result may not start departing straightaway but may not hang around nearly as long as other bus types have been able to do.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 19, 2022 12:52:52 GMT
To be fair E58-61 didn’t need to be refurbished as I don’t think they have been officially allocated to any routes since they left A and have merely filled some gaps. But my point is they didn't fall apart or were dangerous to operate and I doubt passengers had any issues riding them. The thing is there is a big difference between buses an operator owns that head off to Hants & Dorset for a refresh and buses TfL not only own but has a more specialised contract for refurbs which probably includes more heavier work. If there a cost that could be saved by withdrawing them as contracts pop up, especially at a time when the numbers of buses are being reduced, then they’ll probably look into earlier withdrawals. No one said they will fall apart or be dangerous to operate. The older E’s mentioned that are not refurbished do look very tired and I wonder what impression that gives passengers
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 19, 2022 15:54:15 GMT
Thou based on the an estimated cost of £400,000 for a new electric bus to replace all 1008 LTs rather then refurb them would cost £403,000,000. The £31m estimated refurb cost spread over the next few years as each bus get to around 8 years old is probably still better value for money.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 19, 2022 16:22:20 GMT
Thou based on the an estimated cost of £400,000 for a new electric bus to replace all 1008 LTs rather then refurb them would cost £403,000,000. The £31m estimated refurb cost spread over the next few years as each bus get to around 8 years old is probably still better value for money. On the surface yes, but factor in the bulk order discount and that amount could be 25-30% cheaper. It’s like airline ordering, the larger order you place the cheaper it gets.
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Post by M1104 on Jan 19, 2022 16:24:11 GMT
Thou based on the an estimated cost of £400,000 for a new electric bus to replace all 1008 LTs rather then refurb them would cost £403,000,000. The £31m estimated refurb cost spread over the next few years as each bus get to around 8 years old is probably still better value for money. An alternative to getting new electric buses is to extend the use of existing hybrids¹ and/or convert some existing buses to zero emission, now that there's at least one firm that specialises in such ventures. www.sustainable-bus.com/news/kleanbus-repowering-lucy-parkin/¹ - Go Ahead's MHVs that went to Manchester being such ideal examples had they not yet departed
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 19, 2022 16:31:35 GMT
Thou based on the an estimated cost of £400,000 for a new electric bus to replace all 1008 LTs rather then refurb them would cost £403,000,000. The £31m estimated refurb cost spread over the next few years as each bus get to around 8 years old is probably still better value for money. On the surface yes, but factor in the bulk order discount and that amount could be 25-30% cheaper. It’s like airline ordering, the larger order you place the cheaper it gets. If you look at bus builders account, you will see profit margins are 10-12% for the better ones. So discounts of that size will not happen
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 19, 2022 16:49:09 GMT
On the surface yes, but factor in the bulk order discount and that amount could be 25-30% cheaper. It’s like airline ordering, the larger order you place the cheaper it gets. If you look at bus builders account, you will see profit margins are 10-12% for the better ones. So discounts of that size will not happen They would probably still make a similar profit margin on a bulk discount as ordering parts from suppliers for a 1000 buses would also incur bulk discounts on that side.
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Post by sleckdeck on Jan 19, 2022 22:48:16 GMT
Thou based on the an estimated cost of £400,000 for a new electric bus to replace all 1008 LTs rather then refurb them would cost £403,000,000. The £31m estimated refurb cost spread over the next few years as each bus get to around 8 years old is probably still better value for money. An alternative to getting new electric buses is to extend the use of existing hybrids¹ and/or convert some existing buses to zero emission, now that there's at least one firm that specialises in such ventures. www.sustainable-bus.com/news/kleanbus-repowering-lucy-parkin/¹ - Go Ahead's MHVs that went to Manchester being such ideal examples had they not yet departed Converting the 220’s ADE’s to ADHs would be a smart idea. If desperation is arising, then RATP can cherry pick the best SPs and convert them from N23OUD’s to B5LH.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2022 0:55:51 GMT
An alternative to getting new electric buses is to extend the use of existing hybrids¹ and/or convert some existing buses to zero emission, now that there's at least one firm that specialises in such ventures. www.sustainable-bus.com/news/kleanbus-repowering-lucy-parkin/¹ - Go Ahead's MHVs that went to Manchester being such ideal examples had they not yet departed Converting the 220’s ADE’s to ADHs would be a smart idea. If desperation is arising, then RATP can cherry pick the best SPs and convert them from N23OUD’s to B5LH. Very unlikely to happen - the last two schemes of converting buses in the UK (Vantage & Magtec) were both highly unsuccessful with almost all vehicles either proving to be very unreliable or catching fire. It is likely cheaper to order new electrics that have a proven reliability record than convert vehicles that could then have all sorts of issues further down the line. I also don't think it's anywhere near as easy as simply turning a N230UD into a B5LH especially when it's an electric conversion so a B5LH wouldn't even happen as that's a hybrid chassis.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 22, 2022 6:40:35 GMT
LT’s will most likely have to live their contracts out. I can imagine if the LTs will have to leave then the 111’s SPs will return for the time being to support other routes contracts. The H32 and H98 will definitely be in hot waters if the LTs are needed elsewhere. It also doesn’t surprise me the LTs have caused such a financial strain on TFL, they lost £43m every year from the back door. Now that the boarding issue has been ‘resolved’ it makes the idea of these buses pointless. Shame tbh Out of interest the 159 contract ends in December, it's LTs having entered service from day one of contract (as opposed to mid-contract conversions on routes like the 59 and 259). You have just made me realise something. Strictly speaking this belongs in the Trivial but Unique thread but I shall mention it here anyway. Route 359 is now the only route ending with 59 not to use LTs.
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Post by COBO on Jan 23, 2022 22:13:28 GMT
It’s kind of a coincidence that there’s news that the LTs might be withdrawn the same time Boris parties during lockdown has been exposed.. Or maybe I”m reading into too much into that. 😂
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 24, 2022 9:19:09 GMT
I been seeing that about the New routemaster been withdrawn when they 1st came they did have the same problems with the Bendy Buses as people don't pay on is the reason why the bendy buses 10 years ago
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Post by greenboy on Jan 24, 2022 9:37:35 GMT
I been seeing that about the New routemaster been withdrawn when they 1st came they did have the same problems with the Bendy Buses as people don't pay on is the reason why the bendy buses 10 years ago Initially there was a conductor/customer assistant on the back to ensure everyone paid. Any type of bus with open boarding is going to encourage fare evasion.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 24, 2022 9:49:27 GMT
I been seeing that about the New routemaster been withdrawn when they 1st came they did have the same problems with the Bendy Buses as people don't pay on is the reason why the bendy buses 10 years ago Initially there was a conductor/customer assistant on the back to ensure everyone paid. Any type of bus with open boarding is going to encourage fare evasion. They weren’t there to ensure payments were made and they didn’t check tickets. Their role was to ensure everyone entered and exited the rear platform safely and to provide information to passengers.
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 25, 2022 16:23:49 GMT
Today I see a new routemaster blinded for the 632 and running on the routes as other ones just a black bored one it but it turn of before I could see the number I wounded if one went on the 643
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