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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 10:56:39 GMT
How far out do you have to go before an area is classed as "suburban"? By law inner London is the former London County Council area (except North Woolwich). So the suburbs would be anywhere that before 1965 was in Kent, Surrey, Middlesex, or Essex including Stratford and Tottenham. For statistics the government and the EU use a slightly different area that excludes the borough of Greenwich but includes the boroughs of Newham and Haringey so they see Stratford and Tottenham as inner London. But most people tend to use zones 1-3 as inner London, which includes places like Wimbledon and Ealing which are not in the official definitions. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Dec 2, 2013 2:09:46 GMT
I just heard that the 148 will have no conductors on the route. source
MODS MSG Note use of the word 'reportedly' therefore don't assume it is FACT yet. I am sure all will be revealed shortly..... RM5Chris Further to this, quoting Leon Daniels on another group: "We have experience of all-day opo on route 38 with the prototypes and now on route 148 we will measure how it is with the whole route so operated." If the 148 will be fully OPO LT, then it makes it the biggest waste of money ever in the history of London Buses IMHO Surely 27-odd ADHs (or even ADEs  ) would have cost significantly less than 27 of BoJo's toy buses |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 2, 2013 10:24:07 GMT
Further to this, quoting Leon Daniels on another group: "We have experience of all-day opo on route 38 with the prototypes and now on route 148 we will measure how it is with the whole route so operated." If the 148 will be fully OPO LT, then it makes it the biggest waste of money ever in the history of London Buses IMHO Surely 27-odd ADHs (or even ADEs ) would have cost significantly less than 27 of BoJo's toy buses (Sarcastic mode) But your not aloud to say that as that's apparently 'Boris Bashing' - we're not allowed to criticise those 'sacred' buses!!! |
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 2, 2013 11:11:41 GMT
Further to this, quoting Leon Daniels on another group: "We have experience of all-day opo on route 38 with the prototypes and now on route 148 we will measure how it is with the whole route so operated." If the 148 will be fully OPO LT, then it makes it the biggest waste of money ever in the history of London Buses IMHO Surely 27-odd ADHs (or even ADEs ) would have cost significantly less than 27 of BoJo's toy buses I think some of the then London Transport actions in the 1970s would (allowing for inflation) dwarf any waste that may come from NBfL (committing to nearly 2000 DMSs before seeing how they operate in London conditions, anyone? Or the awful AEC Merlins, scrapped after barely 5 years service in many cases?) Having said that, all day OPO operation on NBfL does rather negate the whole point of the vehicle IMO. I can live with Monday-Friday operation only - it proves the NBfL's versatility. But if we're having 100% OPO, we may as well have ordered hybrid Enviro 400Hs or similar... |
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Post by snowman on Dec 6, 2013 10:22:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 14:04:12 GMT
Read with disbelief about the 148 being OPO with NB4L.
Surely there must be some disquiet within TfL now about this ? I love the buses themselves , but I also love the enviro hybrids , which are much cheaper.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 15:01:02 GMT
If the 148 will be fully OPO LT, then it makes it the biggest waste of money ever in the history of London Buses IMHO Surely 27-odd ADHs (or even ADEs ) would have cost significantly less than 27 of BoJo's toy buses I think some of the then London Transport actions in the 1970s would (allowing for inflation) dwarf any waste that may come from NBfL (committing to nearly 2000 DMSs before seeing how they operate in London conditions, anyone? Or the awful AEC Merlins, scrapped after barely 5 years service in many cases?) Having said that, all day OPO operation on NBfL does rather negate the whole point of the vehicle IMO. I can live with Monday-Friday operation only - it proves the NBfL's versatility. But if we're having 100% OPO, we may as well have ordered hybrid Enviro 400Hs or similar... I do like the DM's, but I don't know why LT removed them during the 80's? But with the NBFL and its amazing technology it got, why can't TFL market the chassis and the components of the bus? All what it needs to do is sell the chassis and then its down to the manufacture to build a body on it. . I can live with Monday-Friday operation only - it proves the NBfL's versatility. But if we're having 100% OPO, we may as well have ordered hybrid Enviro 400Hs or similar... Indeed, have both doors used for entry and exit with card readers installed on handlebars. It would be generally the same as LTs in full OPO mode. Well the purpose of the NBFL is to have an open platform opened with a conductor. But thankfully technology makes it all part time to have a door on. But TFL is trying to get the operation cost of the NBFL more balanced and cheaper for the operators to operate the NBFL. Well with the open boarding, in some European countries, they have 3 doors. Why can't TFL consider trying out 3 doored single deckers which would be more suitable for the Red Arrow routes. I know they tried the TransBus Enviro200 which have doors at the front and right at the rear. But since TFL are going to trial out the 2 BYD buses on the Red Arrow routes, i doubt if they have rear doors to make it fully open boarding? |
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Post by cc2005 on Dec 8, 2013 15:03:07 GMT
Are we going to have different conductor operating times on each route?  38: OPO at all times 24: conductors 7am - 7pm Mondays to Saturdays. OPO evenings and sun 11: conductors 7am - 7pm all week. OPO evenings 9: conductors 7am - 7pm Mondays to Fridays. OPO evenings and weekends 390: conductors 6am - 6pm Mondays to Fridays. OPO evenings and weekends 148: OPO at all times |
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Post by westhamgeezer on Dec 8, 2013 19:47:53 GMT
Are we going to have different conductor operating times on each route? 38: OPO at all times 24: conductors 7am - 7pm Mondays to Saturdays. OPO evenings and sun 11: conductors 7am - 7pm all week. OPO evenings 9: conductors 7am - 7pm Mondays to Fridays. OPO evenings and weekends 390: conductors 6am - 6pm Mondays to Fridays. OPO evenings and weekends 148: OPO at all times 24 Is also OPO Saturdays. To be honest, I dont think it'll be long before they are all OPO |
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Post by ajw on Dec 8, 2013 20:18:13 GMT
But with the NBFL and its amazing technology it got, why can't TFL market the chassis and the components of the bus? All what it needs to do is sell the chassis and then its down to the manufacture to build a body on it. What amazing technology does it have that other hybrid buses don't? Also you may well find that TfL own the design of the body and the concept, but maybe not what is underneath. Well with the open boarding, in some European countries, they have 3 doors. Why can't TFL consider trying out 3 doored single deckers which would be more suitable for the Red Arrow routes. I know they tried the TransBus Enviro200 which have doors at the front and right at the rear. But since TFL are going to trial out the 2 BYD buses on the Red Arrow routes, i doubt if they have rear doors to make it fully open boarding? They used to have 3 door single deckers that were more than suitable for red arrows, they were called articulated buses. Removed for no reason, on these routes in particular for none other than petty politics. |
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Post by ajw on Dec 8, 2013 20:20:00 GMT
24 Is also OPO Saturdays. To be honest, I dont think it'll be long before they are all OPO Think you are right, the whole thing has been pretty pointless from the beginning and it was obvious to blind freddy what would happen. Cost always wins, except of course when added cost keeps a politician in power. |
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 8, 2013 21:52:42 GMT
Still, at least there will be gangs of revenue staff hanging about, ready to pounce on the free buses from time to time? #werebackwherewestarted #freebus #moneypit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 10:24:19 GMT
Still, at least there will be gangs of revenue staff hanging about, ready to pounce on the free buses from time to time? #werebackwherewestarted #freebus #moneypit This is crazy.............remove conductors and spend the money saved on revenue staff?  |
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Post by westhamgeezer on Dec 9, 2013 11:50:23 GMT
Crazy indeed. Why not let the conductors do a "proper" job and collect, or at least check fares. Speed up the boarding times, reduce evasion, give them something to actually do. To my observations, being a "customer assistant" looks like a mind-numbingly boring job, even when passengers need assistance, I've noticed they go to the driver rather than the CA. I did have one ride on a 24 where the driver was actually pulling up with the rear of the bus at the stop and encoraging people to get on at the back. Actually made a great difference to the journey speed. Also there is the nonsense (I believe I am correct in saying this) that the doors cannot be opened individually. This creates problems whereby if a passenger is running for the bus (in OPO mode) then the driver is reluctant to let them on as opening all the doors again increases the dwell time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 13:15:21 GMT
Crazy indeed. Why not let the conductors do a "proper" job and collect, or at least check fares. Speed up the boarding times, reduce evasion, give them something to actually do. To my observations, being a "customer assistant" looks like a mind-numbingly boring job, even when passengers need assistance, I've noticed they go to the driver rather than the CA. I did have one ride on a 24 where the driver was actually pulling up with the rear of the bus at the stop and encoraging people to get on at the back. Actually made a great difference to the journey speed. Also there is the nonsense (I believe I am correct in saying this) that the doors cannot be opened individually. This creates problems whereby if a passenger is running for the bus (in OPO mode) then the driver is reluctant to let them on as opening all the doors again increases the dwell time. I've seen a few drivers do that, pull up at stops in such a way as to encourage people to board at the rear. Yes I've looked in the cab and there is just one door open button and three individual door close buttons, quite what the thinking behind that was I don't know? |
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) would have cost significantly less than 27 of BoJo's toy buses
