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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:19:04 GMT
Hybrid power is obtained by capturing energy lost during braking and deceleration. A moving bus has energy, a stationary bus none (ok not technically correct but good for this example). Energy can never be destroyed, it just gets converted from one form to another. Hybrids capture some of the lost energy lost under breaking and acceleration and store it as electrical energy. This energy is then used to assist acceleration rather than being totally reliant on diesel power. Hybrids are not plugged in each night. Even though they are not plugged in each night. They do get plugged in to get refueled don't they? Even if they DO require electricity, electricity can and is also produced by natural gas,biomass, nuclear, solar, wind, hydroelectricity, geo-thermal, and other renewable energy sources. On the other hand, diesel can only come from crude oil and oil only comes from... oil. Also, plastic can't be made from amy of these. I'm not saying these are perfect. Of course, they all have problems. However, the issue of global warming is the biggest problem and needs addressing first.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2014 23:10:30 GMT
Just because Hybrids are Environmentally friendly does not mean people has to like them. People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. Sorry but what right do you have to tell me to like hybrids? I will always prefer diesels over hybrids and if you don't like it, then tough. If you and others want to like hybrids, then that's entirely up to you and other people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:15:38 GMT
People are selfish, ignorant and are destroying the planet. Not many people care about it. I think people ought to start liking hybrids. Do you know what temperature rise ended the last ice age? Around 1C. Sorry but what right do you have to tell me to like hybrids? I will always prefer diesels over hybrids and if you don't like it, then tough. If you and others want to like hybrids, then that's entirely up to you and other people. If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. PS:I said 'ought' which doesn't mean 'have'. EDIT: It's a bit like saying 'I don't like Arabs and I never will, so you can't tell me to help the Palestinians and Syrian civilians.' You're right, I can't, but I still have a right to ask you to help them.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2014 23:20:32 GMT
Sorry but what right do you have to tell me to like hybrids? I will always prefer diesels over hybrids and if you don't like it, then tough. If you and others want to like hybrids, then that's entirely up to you and other people. If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. I think your taking this a bit too far - the topic was a poll on who preferred diesel buses and who preferred hybrids not on whether we need hybrids or not. Everyone is entitled to their opinions whether they like diesels or hybrids - you don't see me telling people they need to ditch their good opinion of hybrids. So like I said, what right do you have to tell me how I think?
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 23:24:52 GMT
Sorry but what right do you have to tell me to like hybrids? I will always prefer diesels over hybrids and if you don't like it, then tough. If you and others want to like hybrids, then that's entirely up to you and other people. If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. So because people prefer diesel means that they don't care about the environment and they are selfish. What a load of tosh! I was going to say something ruder but I won't. Listen here I and I Repeat I do not like Hybrids. I do not have nor nobody else has to like Hybrids I prefer diesels because they have character and it's my choice. I do not have to like hybrids. You can make me like hybrids. There is no law for not liking Hybrids. I will carry on not liking Hybrids. If you don't like it then tough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:29:43 GMT
If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. I think your taking this a bit too far - the topic was a poll on who preferred diesel buses and who preferred hybrids not on whether we need hybrids or not. Everyone is entitled to their opinions whether they like diesels or hybrids - you don't see me telling people they need to ditch their good opinion of hybrids. So like I said, what right do you have to tell me how I think? Originally all I said was that people were missing the main point. Then I said people should like hybrids because they're eco-friendly. I never said people have to like them. People began questioning the importance of being eco-friendly and I answered accordingly. I'm not enforcing anything- I'm just raising awareness about an important issue in our community.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 9, 2014 23:29:54 GMT
It's a poll and presumably just for fun. It's not compulsory to vote - I haven't done so as I don't really have a view about diesels vs hybrids. I'm not a bus noise and vibrations freakoid . If you were an eco-warrior I'd suggest you wouldn't be dreaming about electric cars. You'd be dreaming of no cars and lots of people walking and cycling with the rest on public transport. The real poll would be for people to rank their preferred forms of transport in London - bus, cycle, walking, trams, trolleybus, metro, trains, cars, taxis. However this is essentially a bus group so people are naturally going to be more interested in those. That's true. In my idea of a perfect world, it'd be similar to that. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. What you said above is never going to happen. It's also a matter of practicality. Cycling also has it's downsides, and walking 2 hours to work and school and other places isn't even worth thinking about. Besides, when I eventually do get a car, I'm going to use the bus most of time- I don't like travelling by car at all, because I feel so small, puny and insignificant compared to the upper deck. So two benefits. Why buy a car at all if you are going to use the bus most of the time? All the money you would spend on insurance/MOT/tax/general maintenance could instead be used on an annual bus/train pass. Save yourself money as well as the Earth's environment. Also bare in mind that a number of fully diesel powered buses are being experimented with hybrid flywheels, which are apparently showing affective results in reducing emissions.
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Post by COBO on Jul 9, 2014 23:30:22 GMT
Sorry but what right do you have to tell me to like hybrids? I will always prefer diesels over hybrids and if you don't like it, then tough. If you and others want to like hybrids, then that's entirely up to you and other people. If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. PS:I said 'ought' which doesn't mean 'have'. EDIT: It's a bit like saying 'I don't like Arabs and I never will, so you can't tell me to help the Palestinians and Syrian civilians.' You're right, I can't, but I still have a right to ask you to help them. Your selfish for not respecting other peoples opinions. You are over exaggerating things you can't compare not liking Arabs with not liking Hybrids that a little silly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:32:55 GMT
If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. So because people prefer diesel means that they don't care about the environment and they are selfish. What a load of tosh! I was going to say something ruder but I won't. Listen here I and I Repeat I do not like Hybrids. I do not have nor nobody else has to like Hybrids I prefer diesels because they have character and it's my choice. I do not have to like hybrids. You can make me like hybrids. There is no law for not liking Hybrids. I will carry on not liking Hybrids. If you don't like it then tough. I never said anyone has to like them. The reason I mentioned it was that everyone who preferred hybrids was giving reasons such as they're quieter, or cheaper. It certainly seemed like no one cared about the environment because no one was mentioning it. Originally I was just trying to create awareness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:43:39 GMT
If I believe my and my (future) children's future is getting destroyed by the minute then I have a right to try and prevent it. It's like I said, people don't give a thing about the environment, they refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of them. I'm not going to let other people's selfishness ruin my future and life. PS:I said 'ought' which doesn't mean 'have'. EDIT: It's a bit like saying 'I don't like Arabs and I never will, so you can't tell me to help the Palestinians and Syrian civilians.' You're right, I can't, but I still have a right to ask you to help them. Your selfish for not respecting other peoples opinions. You are over exaggerating things you can't compare not liking Arabs with not liking Hybrids that a little silly. Ok, the Arab part is a bit over the top. But I was just giving an example. And about other people's opinions, it was someone else who started by saying what evidence is there of global warming, how are hybrids better for the environment, what right do I have to say people have to like hybrids, even though I NEVER SAID THAT. But I accept I've been over-reacting, I guess it comes from being an eco-warrior, seeing loads of energy being wasted at school and outside and not being able to do anything about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:49:45 GMT
That's true. In my idea of a perfect world, it'd be similar to that. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. What you said above is never going to happen. It's also a matter of practicality. Cycling also has it's downsides, and walking 2 hours to work and school and other places isn't even worth thinking about. Besides, when I eventually do get a car, I'm going to use the bus most of time- I don't like travelling by car at all, because I feel so small, puny and insignificant compared to the upper deck. So two benefits. Why buy a car at all if you are going to use the bus most of the time? All the money you would spend on insurance/MOT/tax/general maintenance could instead be used on an annual bus/train pass. Save yourself money as well as the Earth's environment. Also bare in mind that a number of fully diesel powered buses are being experimented with hybrid flywheels, which are apparently showing affective results in reducing emissions. Again, it's a matter of practicality. Sometimes you need a car. For example when you go shopping to shops like Sainsbury's and Tesco. You carry a lot usually at those times. Taking a bus or train isn't really practical at all.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 9, 2014 23:58:17 GMT
Why buy a car at all if you are going to use the bus most of the time? All the money you would spend on insurance/MOT/tax/general maintenance could instead be used on an annual bus/train pass. Save yourself money as well as the Earth's environment. Also bare in mind that a number of fully diesel powered buses are being experimented with hybrid flywheels, which are apparently showing affective results in reducing emissions. Again, it's a matter of practicality. Sometimes you need a car. For example when you go shopping to shops like Sainsbury's and Tesco. You carry a lot usually at those times. Taking a bus or train isn't really practical at all. Fair enough, though in that example Internet shopping is available.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 0:27:34 GMT
Reading through the last two pages, I've realised that this whole debate is because of the different interpretations of the word 'ought'. I understand it as meaning should. Others took it to mean 'have', and these two are different. For example, if I said you should give charity, that's actually a good thing but if I said you have to, that would be wrong.
I've taken the initiative to come up with the following conclusion because I partly started the debate. I hope everyone accepts this and that after this, there will be no more debating.
1)Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 2)Hybrid buses are better for the environment. 3)No one HAS to like hybrid buses. 4)Diesel buses also have their benefits. 5)There are factors concerning hybrids and diesels other than the impact on the environment and they are all important. 6)However, global warming is very real and something needs to be done about it.
Now, I've been awake for 17 hours now which means I'm nearly dead. If I've missed anything please tell me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 0:30:38 GMT
To be fair, my opinion wasn't respected very much either, but like I said, let's let it go. We're not 8-year olds.
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Post by Volvo on Jul 10, 2014 22:10:41 GMT
TBH with all this environmental stuff I don't get too fixated into it. Reasons being
They say petrol engines are harming the environment because of c02 levels, so buy a diesel as it emits less c02. That leads to another problem they say diesel is actually not good for the environment either infact worse apparently as they say it causes cancer and emits alot of nitrous oxide but from 2017 petrol engines will be better again. Buy a electric car? oh that has its environmental effects to starting right at the factory.
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