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Post by busoccultation on May 27, 2017 13:22:25 GMT
snoggle , I kindly request the 2016/17 figures for the Night Tube routes if you have them available in your usual Excel format   And I'd like to take a start a discussion as to what weekend night routes if any people would nominate for full 24/7 operation. I nominate the 123 as it constantly surpasses the 17 journeys per bus threshhold* every time I use it. Heck, it's the reason why I hike to Wood Green just to have some company on the bus ride home via Ilford. The 145 floats around 14-15 passengers on average, so weekend 24 status is the right call. I would assume the 486 does better than the 132 but need to go to NG and wait it out to have visual confirmation of loadings; as well as revisit the 154 which had very handome loadings when the Night Tube wasn't operational the time I rode it!! *For any members that don't know, 17 is the magical number of passengers a bus needs to have for the bus service to not run at a loss; or breakeven point as the fancy business lingo goes. Here is the usage of Weekend Night Tube routes from TfL's latest spreadsheet data: Route - Usage - Average usage per week 34 - 12 165 - 392 per week 114 - 8 800 - 367 per week 123 - 15 444 - 498 per week 132 - 12 068 - 389 per week 145 - 14 674 - 473 per week 154 - 15 174 - 489 per week 158 - 12 861 - 415 per week 183 - 11 333 - 472 per week 296 - 11 237 - 362 per week 307 - 4 539 - 252 per week 319 - 9 287 - 516 per week 486 - 13 003 - 419 per week E1 - 6 496 - 210 per week H32 - 3 292 - 235 per week H37 - 7 629 - 246 per week W3 - 13 040 - 421 per week W7 - 14 478 - 467 per week Note 1: All Average usage per week is from the week route is introduced to the Weekend of 25/26 March 2017. Note 2: Average usage per week data for 132, 154, 486 and H37 does not include before 20th August 2016. |
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Post by enviroPB on May 27, 2017 13:52:25 GMT
snoggle , I kindly request the 2016/17 figures for the Night Tube routes if you have them available in your usual Excel format And I'd like to take a start a discussion as to what weekend night routes if any people would nominate for full 24/7 operation. I nominate the 123 as it constantly surpasses the 17 journeys per bus threshhold* every time I use it. Heck, it's the reason why I hike to Wood Green just to have some company on the bus ride home via Ilford. The 145 floats around 14-15 passengers on average, so weekend 24 status is the right call. I would assume the 486 does better than the 132 but need to go to NG and wait it out to have visual confirmation of loadings; as well as revisit the 154 which had very handome loadings when the Night Tube wasn't operational the time I rode it!! *For any members that don't know, 17 is the magical number of passengers a bus needs to have for the bus service to not run at a loss; or breakeven point as the fancy business lingo goes. Here is the usage of Weekend Night Tube routes from TfL's latest spreadsheet data: Route - Usage - Average usage per week 34 - 12 165 - 392 per week 114 - 8 800 - 367 per week 123 - 15 444 - 498 per week 132 - 12 068 - 389 per week 145 - 14 674 - 473 per week 154 - 15 174 - 489 per week 158 - 12 861 - 415 per week 183 - 11 333 - 472 per week 296 - 11 237 - 362 per week 307 - 4 539 - 252 per week 319 - 9 287 - 516 per week 486 - 13 003 - 419 per week E1 - 6 496 - 210 per week H32 - 3 292 - 235 per week H37 - 7 629 - 246 per week W3 - 13 040 - 421 per week W7 - 14 478 - 467 per week Note 1: All Average usage per week is from the week route is introduced to the Weekend of 25/26 March 2017. Note 2: Average usage per week data for 132, 154, 486 and H37 does not include before 20th August 2016. Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!  If everyone would like to backtrack to my previous couple posts to see which route I thought would be the most used was!  Now is the time for TfL to be brave and take a good crack at patching up the night bus network like they do every half decade and make some routes on this list 24 hours, 7 days a week. Valuable links that the 123 and 154 provide thrusts them into being prime candidates for this. I also honestly didn't expect the 145 to be 3rd on the list, but I suspect Sunday mornings is when most of the passengers use the route seeing as trains (and buses) are barren in the Dagenham area till about 7 o'clock. Really surprised at the 296 as well; I thought given the shortish routing like the H32, it may struggle with numbers but it proves to be successful. I also didn't have much hope for the 307; hadn't rode the route before but being transported along the routing made me realise affluence and car use was in abundance. To conclude, it's nice to see it's not just me using these Night Tube buses |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 27, 2017 15:40:15 GMT
Not surprised to see the 154 is nearly top of the useage as not just the night tube producing loadings but also clubbers from Croydon.
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Post by redexpress on May 28, 2017 3:20:10 GMT
Here is the usage of Weekend Night Tube routes from TfL's latest spreadsheet data: Route - Usage - Average usage per week 34 - 12 165 - 392 per week 114 - 8 800 - 367 per week 123 - 15 444 - 498 per week 132 - 12 068 - 389 per week 145 - 14 674 - 473 per week 154 - 15 174 - 489 per week 158 - 12 861 - 415 per week 183 - 11 333 - 472 per week 296 - 11 237 - 362 per week 307 - 4 539 - 252 per week 319 - 9 287 - 516 per week 486 - 13 003 - 419 per week E1 - 6 496 - 210 per week H32 - 3 292 - 235 per week H37 - 7 629 - 246 per week W3 - 13 040 - 421 per week W7 - 14 478 - 467 per week Note 1: All Average usage per week is from the week route is introduced to the Weekend of 25/26 March 2017. Note 2: Average usage per week data for 132, 154, 486 and H37 does not include before 20th August 2016. Thank you thank you thank you thank you!! If everyone would like to backtrack to my previous couple posts to see which route I thought would be the most used was! Now is the time for TfL to be brave and take a good crack at patching up the night bus network like they do every half decade and make some routes on this list 24 hours, 7 days a week. Valuable links that the 123 and 154 provide thrusts them into being prime candidates for this. I also honestly didn't expect the 145 to be 3rd on the list, but I suspect Sunday mornings is when most of the passengers use the route seeing as trains (and buses) are barren in the Dagenham area till about 7 o'clock. Really surprised at the 296 as well; I thought given the shortish routing like the H32, it may struggle with numbers but it proves to be successful. I also didn't have much hope for the 307; hadn't rode the route before but being transported along the routing made me realise affluence and car use was in abundance. To conclude, it's nice to see it's not just me using these Night Tube buses Having just done most of the N123 I'd agree that it could justify an all-week night service. It was busy throughout, but most importantly there didn't seem to be a huge amount of interchange to & from the tube, which would suggest that the night custom on this route does not depend solely on the night tube. I doubt you could say the same for all of the other routes though. I can't imagine the W3 and W7, for example, being anywhere near as busy on nights when the tube isn't running. It would be very interesting to see figures (or at least estimates) for bus-tube interchanges on these routes. When I did the N34 and N307 a few months ago I was surprised by the loadings on both routes - surprised at how quiet the N34 was, and at how busy the N307 was! I'd been expecting to have the N307 more or less to myself. From these figures it seems that wasn't a typical night. The N319 is certainly loading well. I wonder how much of that is down to abstraction from parallel routes and how much is on the freehold section. |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on May 28, 2017 12:14:26 GMT
Biggest surprises there - how high 296's usage is and how low 114's is
I agree about 123 and 154, they should have been proper 24h daily routes from the start.
145 would also make a nice, proper night bus for Dagenham as what they have atm is a 365 a distance away, which is rather abysmal
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 28, 2017 12:20:41 GMT
Biggest surprises there - how high 296's usage is and how low 114's is I agree about 123 and 154, they should have been proper 24h daily routes from the start. 145 would also make a nice, proper night bus for Dagenham as what they have atm is a 365 a distance away, which is rather abysmal Dagenham does have the N15 nearby, which is a lot closer than the 365 to a lot of Dagenham. |
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Post by enviroPB on May 28, 2017 12:48:48 GMT
Biggest surprises there - how high 296's usage is and how low 114's is I agree about 123 and 154, they should have been proper 24h daily routes from the start. 145 would also make a nice, proper night bus for Dagenham as what they have atm is a 365 a distance away, which is rather abysmal Dagenham does have the N15 nearby, which is a lot closer than the 365 to a lot of Dagenham. Can people stop saying the N15 is 'nearby' in Dagenham?? It is a hike from Chequers Corner to Wood Lane to get the only useful night bus for miles around, let's not even mention the 365 in the usefulness debate. That area of Dagenham deserves a proper night bus, and the 145 is the closest thing customers have for night-time coverage; albeit at the weekends. |
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Post by vjaska on May 28, 2017 14:33:55 GMT
Dagenham does have the N15 nearby, which is a lot closer than the 365 to a lot of Dagenham. Can people stop saying the N15 is 'nearby' in Dagenham?? It is a hike from Chequers Corner to Wood Lane to get the only useful night bus for miles around, let's not even mention the 365 in the usefulness debate. That area of Dagenham deserves a proper night bus, and the 145 is the closest thing customers have for night-time coverage; albeit at the weekends. Of course, at least they have some nearby - Norwood Junction has just one nearby and that's to the north and involves walking up a hill. If you live in South Norwood just south of Norwood Junction, you have to walk to South Norwood Hill for the N68 or even further afield, Addiscombe Road for the 119. |
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Post by Hassaan on May 28, 2017 14:43:53 GMT
Biggest surprises there - how high 296's usage is and how low 114's is I agree about 123 and 154, they should have been proper 24h daily routes from the start. 145 would also make a nice, proper night bus for Dagenham as what they have atm is a 365 a distance away, which is rather abysmal The Night Tube stations on the 114 are both at the eastern end of the route, so very few people towards the Ruislip end would use it for that purpose. Not sure how many people would use it for local journeys in the area, as there is probably a high usage of cars and minicabs around there. |
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Post by kmkcheng on May 28, 2017 17:18:19 GMT
Biggest surprises there - how high 296's usage is and how low 114's is I agree about 123 and 154, they should have been proper 24h daily routes from the start. 145 would also make a nice, proper night bus for Dagenham as what they have atm is a 365 a distance away, which is rather abysmal The Night Tube stations on the 114 are both at the eastern end of the route, so very few people towards the Ruislip end would use it for that purpose. Not sure how many people would use it for local journeys in the area, as there is probably a high usage of cars and minicabs around there. I always wondered why Ruislip hasn't had a night service for over 20 years until the weekend 114. Even the West Ruislip branch of central line wasn't included as part of the night tube. Is the average person living in Ruislip any different than another person living in the another part of outer London that has a direct night bus service to central London? I suppose in theory a person could take a N18 to Harrow to change to a Ruislip-bound 114 but looking at the timetable, timing is tight as there is 3 minute gap between N18 arriving at Harrow to the 114 arriving and they would be looking a 90 minute journey. I always thought they should extend the N7 beyond Northolt towards Ruislip via 282 and 114 |
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Post by enviroPB on May 29, 2017 11:28:11 GMT
The Night Tube stations on the 114 are both at the eastern end of the route, so very few people towards the Ruislip end would use it for that purpose. Not sure how many people would use it for local journeys in the area, as there is probably a high usage of cars and minicabs around there. I always wondered why Ruislip hasn't had a night service for over 20 years until the weekend 114. Even the West Ruislip branch of central line wasn't included as part of the night tube. Is the average person living in Ruislip any different than another person living in the another part of outer London that has a direct night bus service to central London? I suppose in theory a person could take a N18 to Harrow to change to a Ruislip-bound 114 but looking at the timetable, timing is tight as there is 3 minute gap between N18 arriving at Harrow to the 114 arriving and they would be looking a 90 minute journey. I always thought they should extend the N7 beyond Northolt towards Ruislip via 282 and 114 Well there were plans to have the N7 extended to Rayners Lane Station* but it never happened. Maybe there wasn't enough demand to have it extended, or maybe TfL waited till the Night Tube came along to patch up this bit of the night bus network with a weekend 114. *As deduced from pics showing a VWH with the blindset of N7 and Rayners Lane |
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Post by kmkcheng on May 29, 2017 13:19:50 GMT
I always wondered why Ruislip hasn't had a night service for over 20 years until the weekend 114. Even the West Ruislip branch of central line wasn't included as part of the night tube. Is the average person living in Ruislip any different than another person living in the another part of outer London that has a direct night bus service to central London? I suppose in theory a person could take a N18 to Harrow to change to a Ruislip-bound 114 but looking at the timetable, timing is tight as there is 3 minute gap between N18 arriving at Harrow to the 114 arriving and they would be looking a 90 minute journey. I always thought they should extend the N7 beyond Northolt towards Ruislip via 282 and 114 Well there were plans to have the N7 extended to Rayners Lane Station* but it never happened. Maybe there wasn't enough demand to have it extended, or maybe TfL waited till the Night Tube came along to patch up this bit of the night bus network with a weekend 114. *As deduced from pics showing a VWH with the blindset of N7 and Rayners Lane Yes there was plans to extend the N7 to Rayners Lane but I believe there was local opposition to it as it was going to travel via kings road instead of directly on Alexandra ave |
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Post by snoggle on May 29, 2017 15:55:58 GMT
Thank you thank you thank you thank you!! If everyone would like to backtrack to my previous couple posts to see which route I thought would be the most used was! Now is the time for TfL to be brave and take a good crack at patching up the night bus network like they do every half decade and make some routes on this list 24 hours, 7 days a week. Valuable links that the 123 and 154 provide thrusts them into being prime candidates for this. I also honestly didn't expect the 145 to be 3rd on the list, but I suspect Sunday mornings is when most of the passengers use the route seeing as trains (and buses) are barren in the Dagenham area till about 7 o'clock. Really surprised at the 296 as well; I thought given the shortish routing like the H32, it may struggle with numbers but it proves to be successful. I also didn't have much hope for the 307; hadn't rode the route before but being transported along the routing made me realise affluence and car use was in abundance. To conclude, it's nice to see it's not just me using these Night Tube buses Having just done most of the N123 I'd agree that it could justify an all-week night service. It was busy throughout, but most importantly there didn't seem to be a huge amount of interchange to & from the tube, which would suggest that the night custom on this route does not depend solely on the night tube. I doubt you could say the same for all of the other routes though. I can't imagine the W3 and W7, for example, being anywhere near as busy on nights when the tube isn't running. It would be very interesting to see figures (or at least estimates) for bus-tube interchanges on these routes. When I did the N34 and N307 a few months ago I was surprised by the loadings on both routes - surprised at how quiet the N34 was, and at how busy the N307 was! I'd been expecting to have the N307 more or less to myself. From these figures it seems that wasn't a typical night. The N319 is certainly loading well. I wonder how much of that is down to abstraction from parallel routes and how much is on the freehold section. I suspect there may be some other factors in play. If you look at something like the 34 and 123 they have long had a short gap between end of service and restart the following day - around 4 hours. Last buses are close to 0100 or so from each end meaning people are used to having late buses so have adjusted their lifestyle to match. We are lucky that many years ago TfL added later buses to give a clear connection from the last Vic Line into a number of bus routes in Waltham Forest hence the late finish. Also both routes serve relatively dense housing areas *but* also provide fast links at night across North London. If the times work then £1.50 will always been a minicab fare. Furthermore both routes connect with a variety of radial night buses and the Hopper Fare applies. There is a lot of Walthamstow - Edmonton daytime travel on the 34 and connections at Silver St so I'm not shocked that people might be making night time trips given the area is not exactly dripping with prosperity. There will be some low paid workers making use of these new connections. If you look at the 296 weekday timetable it finishes relatively early and provides no connection with the last Central line train from town at Newbury Park nor the last three TfL Rail services at Ilford. The weekend night service solves this and obviously there are (tube) connections through the night too. I can see why people may be taking to the 296 pretty well as the journey time is fast at night and it connects with Romford that has some level of night life. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 29, 2017 17:13:05 GMT
It's similar in Morden with last journeys after 1:15 on the 80, 154, 157, 163 and 164 to meet the last train and the first 154 arriving not long after 5am.
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jul 3, 2017 10:00:40 GMT
*drumroll*.... and now the Night Overground! New Cross Gate to Dalston Junction from December, extending to Highbury from January. www.cityam.com/267703/get-ready-hipsters-night-tube-coming-overgroundSuspect this will generate a lot more new demand - a lot of people deterred by fiddly journeys back from Dalston will suddenly fancy a night out. But will TfL stump up for the extra night buses at places like New Cross Gate? |
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Now is the time for TfL to be brave and take a good crack at patching up the night bus network like they do every half decade and make some routes on this list 24 hours, 7 days a week. Valuable links that the 123 and 154 provide thrusts them into being prime candidates for this. I also honestly didn't expect the 145 to be 3rd on the list, but I suspect Sunday mornings is when most of the passengers use the route seeing as trains (and buses) are barren in the Dagenham area till about 7 o'clock. Really surprised at the 296 as well; I thought given the shortish routing like the H32, it may struggle with numbers but it proves to be successful. I also didn't have much hope for the 307; hadn't rode the route before but being transported along the routing made me realise affluence and car use was in abundance.
