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Post by vjaska on Jul 3, 2017 18:22:00 GMT
Well one way to serve Norwood Junction at night would be to reintroduce the N75 (at least at weekends) and extend it from Lewisham to NXG. It didn't quite justify its existence last time round, but a connection with the night Overground might boost passenger numbers just enough to make it worthwhile. Not that it's likely to happen in the current financial climate of course. I've thrown up a N75 proposal on here a number of times because trying to travel to or from Norwood Junction at night is a right pain. Strangely I've never thought about chucking it to North Greenwich (mine always was a Croydon to Woolwich) but I very much like your idea. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jul 3, 2017 18:33:43 GMT
Well one way to serve Norwood Junction at night would be to reintroduce the N75 (at least at weekends) and extend it from Lewisham to NXG. It didn't quite justify its existence last time round, but a connection with the night Overground might boost passenger numbers just enough to make it worthwhile. Not that it's likely to happen in the current financial climate of course. A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 3, 2017 19:33:21 GMT
Well one way to serve Norwood Junction at night would be to reintroduce the N75 (at least at weekends) and extend it from Lewisham to NXG. It didn't quite justify its existence last time round, but a connection with the night Overground might boost passenger numbers just enough to make it worthwhile. Not that it's likely to happen in the current financial climate of course. A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... Actually a Weekend only N197 from NXG Sainsburys would be a rather good trial route - especially if there was a convenient connection from trains at NXG. At a half hourly frequency it would need 4 buses with 7 trips in each direction to fill the current gap between end and start of service. Alongside the N171 that would fill in most of the gaps. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jul 3, 2017 20:23:08 GMT
A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... Actually a Weekend only N197 from NXG Sainsburys would be a rather good trial route - especially if there was a convenient connection from trains at NXG. At a half hourly frequency it would need 4 buses with 7 trips in each direction to fill the current gap between end and start of service. Alongside the N171 that would fill in most of the gaps. Only catch is the Sainsbury's terminal isn't brilliantly placed for New Cross Gate station, which is why I thought about taking it to Deptford Bridge. I guess a terminating bus could have stop M (outside Sainsbury's petrol station) as its last stop, then loop around the Marquis of Granby to park up inside Sainsbury's, then pick people up again from stop R (by the station), before looping back arond the Marquis of Granby to head towards Peckham. Bit fiddly, but could work. |
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Post by redexpress on Jul 3, 2017 20:52:22 GMT
Well one way to serve Norwood Junction at night would be to reintroduce the N75 (at least at weekends) and extend it from Lewisham to NXG. It didn't quite justify its existence last time round, but a connection with the night Overground might boost passenger numbers just enough to make it worthwhile. Not that it's likely to happen in the current financial climate of course. A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... Actually I like your N197 idea more than my N75 idea! It has the advantage of taking in Peckham, which has a fair bit of night life these days, and doesn't miss out Forest Hill. I wonder whether there'd be a case for extending the N37 or N345 to NXG as well? They both cover for the CJ branch of the Overground at night so it might make sense to link one of them with the night service at NXG, and it should only need one extra bus on the schedule. |
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Post by routew15 on Jul 3, 2017 21:35:55 GMT
I would like to make a suggestion (not an idea of my own) for one night route to complement Night Overground north of the river N67 Edgware to Aldgate
credit to thesquirrels for this 2015 creation. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 3, 2017 21:37:23 GMT
A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... Actually I like your N197 idea more than my N75 idea! It has the advantage of taking in Peckham, which has a fair bit of night life these days, and doesn't miss out Forest Hill. I wonder whether there'd be a case for extending the N37 or N345 to NXG as well? They both cover for the CJ branch of the Overground at night so it might make sense to link one of them with the night service at NXG, and it should only need one extra bus on the schedule. The N37 idea is great but the only issue is that it does struggle to be reliable at night at times but it is well used currently despite those issues due to running through three big night life spots in Clapham Junction, Clapham Common & Brixton. Despite living in Brixton, I very rarely see 345's at night as I live on the southern side of Brixton and have extremely little need to venture further north than the tube station  I would only support the N197 idea if it didn't run via the 197 between Norwood Junction & Croydon otherwise that would also get my support |
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Post by 700101 on Jul 3, 2017 22:26:36 GMT
Well one way to serve Norwood Junction at night would be to reintroduce the N75 (at least at weekends) and extend it from Lewisham to NXG. It didn't quite justify its existence last time round, but a connection with the night Overground might boost passenger numbers just enough to make it worthwhile. Not that it's likely to happen in the current financial climate of course. A night service on the 197 (extended from Peckham to NXG and... Deptford Bridge?) could do that as well as ticking off Forest Hill, Sydenham and Penge West. Hard to see that happening either... Or just have a new N47 - Shoreditch - Croydon Town Centre, after Catford Bridge it could run direct via Perry Hill to Sydenham High Street then re join 75 route or run the whole 75 route |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 0:24:47 GMT
Surprise announcement, but still underwhelming.
Why terminate trains at New Cross Gate? Defeats the object. I would have thought this would be more beneficial if this went through to West Croydon and Clapham Junction, I cannot understand why the major and TFL didn't go for this, both would have made excellent links for people who want to move round London. I don't know what the proposed frequency will be on here but half hourly to West Croydon and Clapham Junction would be realistic.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2017 0:49:50 GMT
Surprise announcement, but still underwhelming. Why terminate trains at New Cross Gate? Defeats the object. I would have thought this would be more beneficial if this went through to West Croydon and Clapham Junction, I cannot understand why the major and TFL didn't go for this, both would have made excellent links for people who want to move round London. I don't know what the proposed frequency will be on here but half hourly to West Croydon and Clapham Junction would be realistic. This is what snoggle posted in another thread which may explain why the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Clapham Junction sections won't be receiving a night service. Starts this year between Dalston and NXG on the East London Line in December 2017 and then extended to Highbury some time in 2018 according to the BBC and Londonist. That will likely be the only bit because TfL control most of it and there's no freight or block access for maintenance works as there is on Network Rail tracks. Obviously Highbury to Dalston is NR but no freight on those lines and I assume TfL have reached agreement with NR over maintenance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 1:09:57 GMT
Surprise announcement, but still underwhelming. Why terminate trains at New Cross Gate? Defeats the object. I would have thought this would be more beneficial if this went through to West Croydon and Clapham Junction, I cannot understand why the major and TFL didn't go for this, both would have made excellent links for people who want to move round London. I don't know what the proposed frequency will be on here but half hourly to West Croydon and Clapham Junction would be realistic. This is what snoggle posted in another thread which may explain why the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Clapham Junction sections won't be receiving a night service. Starts this year between Dalston and NXG on the East London Line in December 2017 and then extended to Highbury some time in 2018 according to the BBC and Londonist. That will likely be the only bit because TfL control most of it and there's no freight or block access for maintenance works as there is on Network Rail tracks. Obviously Highbury to Dalston is NR but no freight on those lines and I assume TfL have reached agreement with NR over maintenance.
Freight trains are irrelevant, if they are being operated it shows that the track is open and can be used for revenue service. Engineering Hours doesn't mean a big uplift for operating freight services, because passenger trains aren't operating. For rains to terminate half way on its route and not continue would suggest to me, that train operating companies are unwilling for their stations to operate, I don't know why, as they are generally unmanned. Heres a bit of food for thought, Crossrail will operate night tube, so wonder when this starts what bus routes will operate a 24hr service? |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 6, 2017 7:55:30 GMT
This is what snoggle posted in another thread which may explain why the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Clapham Junction sections won't be receiving a night service. Freight trains are irrelevant, if they are being operated it shows that the track is open and can be used for revenue service. Engineering Hours doesn't mean a big uplift for operating freight services, because passenger trains aren't operating. For rains to terminate half way on its route and not continue would suggest to me, that train operating companies are unwilling for their stations to operate, I don't know why, as they are generally unmanned. Heres a bit of food for thought, Crossrail will operate night tube, so wonder when this starts what bus routes will operate a 24hr service? But the stations are operated by LO, not the TOCs, at least South of NXG. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 6, 2017 8:50:27 GMT
This is what snoggle posted in another thread which may explain why the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Clapham Junction sections won't be receiving a night service. Freight trains are irrelevant, if they are being operated it shows that the track is open and can be used for revenue service. Engineering Hours doesn't mean a big uplift for operating freight services, because passenger trains aren't operating. For rains to terminate half way on its route and not continue would suggest to me, that train operating companies are unwilling for their stations to operate, I don't know why, as they are generally unmanned. Heres a bit of food for thought, Crossrail will operate night tube, so wonder when this starts what bus routes will operate a 24hr service? Hang on - you can't just dismiss everything I said. On NR controlled tracks we cannot escape the fact that there are block periods for maintenance. That runs contrary to TfL's approach to how it runs night tube where it has upgraded assets / improved condition prior to Night Tube starting and shifted maintenance to the rest of the week. NR clings to its inherited rights for maintenance because it cannot afford to reduce or lose this time in case it results in service disruptions to daytime services. The Brighton Main line, out of Victoria and London Bridge, is not in a good state and I am sure this is why LO trains are not running south of NXG. The DfT will want delivery of Thameslink prioritised as well as the implementation of the Gibb report recommnedations to get the infrastructure into appropriate state for the enhanced Thameslink services as well as allowing Southern trains to run reliably. As Astradyne says the station issue is irrelevant south of NXG as Arriva operate all the LO served stations anyway. It must therefore be track access which is the problem for the present time. TfL have never actually said they want to run night LO services south of NXG anyway - presumably to stop "hares running" and people getting disappointed at the lack of progress because they know such an operation is fraught with difficulties and (probably) cost. Obviously freight does NOT matter on the ELL as there is northern connection at Highbury to the NLL. In the context of any further expansion of Night Overground then I am afraid that freight will be a factor as I understand trains run overnight. Furthermore if a maintenance block is in place on one LO route then freight has to be able to divert to another. Freight may not totally inhibit the operation of passenger trains but they prevent the level of frequency that TfL would wish to operate at night. Given lower frequencies TfL would want a reliable service and the current level of overnight paths may prevent that. It is no wonder that TfL are pushing again in the draft Mayor's Transport Strategy for freight to be diverted away from London and for more "legacy" freight paths to be surrendered. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 24, 2017 12:16:52 GMT
I know it's slightly off topic, but if you give me a chance, I'll relate it back to the topic thread I promise  Was milling around last night as per, and got to Newham Town Hall at 01:35 knowing the N238 is scheduled to come soon. Instead, 19744 was already at the High Street North stop, 4 minutes early and was killing time along Barking Road by driving 10-15mph all the way to Barking. I had to have a chat with the driver at the end (he was a WH driver) and said that from Stratford Park until East Ham Station, the N238 observes a 20mph limit. I also mentioned some observations of some BK drivers (who predominantly work the N238 duties) leaving Stratford 6 minutes late; observe the 20mph limit until East Ham and 30mph to Barking then on and finish on time! The driver was in agony about the N238 being so padded in time, and I offered him no comfort. "During the Olympics when the night bus ran, it was 15-17 minutes journey time. Now it's 23-26 minutes!" Padding on weekend night routes are very tricky for drivers to work out. Often it's 20mph zones scattered on a route, with most drivers adopting a 'go slow' method until they're effectively on time and then late from being in a 30mph zone. Route N123 has a lot of time around Tottenham Hale but then drivers forget about the 40mph along Woodford Avenue so often get into Gants Hill late. It seems to me that training was rife at the start of contracts, but the need for night drivers sees a lax in rules. After all, most of these speed limits in residental areas are in place to stop complaints. If TfL don't adhere to their own rules they set in place; it's a downright breakdown in relations with parties affected [namely residents trying to sleep] and shows TfL having a 'we can do what we like' ethos.   |
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Post by 6HP502C on Aug 5, 2017 16:22:36 GMT
Was out in Shoreditch last night - ended up in Underbelly for our sins 
Hometime came - the perfect opportunity to try out the 47! We just missed the 03.16 bus, so grabbed some food and headed south. After around 12 minutes, a 35 turned up and we took it down to Borough, where there are several options to get to Lewisham. Annoyingly we watched a N199 go out ahead of us at Monument and couldn't catch it.
In the end, the next bus that came was the 03.46 47. Fairly loaded, around 30 people on. Progress was funereal - we were pootling along at 10mph, yet on at least a couple of occasions, there were people running down the street screaming because they missed the bus. Despite crawling along, we were running early. The use of the "service regulation" announcement whilst sat on the Tower Bridge Road was enough to seriously put the wind up those of us who were still awake. I thought "this is ridiculous" and checked the schedule on Tower Bridge Road - another 30 minutes to get to Lewisham  . The hum of the hybrid's engine had all but succeeded in sending most of the passengers to sleep - save for the couple who sat in the seats in front of me and proceeded to keep each other entertained. Unfortunately, the reflection in the window opposite told the full story of what was going on. Classy stuff!
There were around 20 people waiting for buses at Canada Water, just after 4am at this point. A handful boarded the 47. Finally, the pace livened up a little after Deptford and we were safely deposited at our destination. I have used Night Tube to connect with the 47 to reach Lewisham - fantastic interchange. Will be even better when Night LO comes in - happy to travel to NXG and take a bus from there!
It's great to have a direct link from Shoreditch, but I'm quite happy not to use a bus which is timed to take almost 50 minutes to do a journey which should take around 35. In future it'll be the 35 to Borough and wait for the N21. The N21 is always late on weekends, but this really isn't a problem. It's predictable and we have access to quality information on bus arrivals. It also means the drivers don't hang around. All things considered, including the lessened likelihood of falling asleep and missing the stop, actually makes it a more attractive service to use than the 47. The only thing is the N21 is much busier. Ob - WHV6 was on the N21 last night.
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