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Post by 6HP502C on Sept 21, 2017 18:19:32 GMT
I still don't see why it would have to be operated by Stagecoach? Anyway it's largely irrelevant, it'll probably never happen and I don't suppose Dulwich residents would be demanding electric buses anyway. If I know Dulwich the way I think I do, there are residents who just object to buses, and electric buses are still buses, and are therefore to be demonised. They should be ignored. If they don't like buses running past their homes, they should relocate to the likes of Court Lane or Woodwarde Road - people in the village and College Road have had almost 30 years to adjust to its presence now. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 21, 2017 21:32:06 GMT
If I know Dulwich the way I think I do, there are residents who just object to buses, and electric buses are still buses, and are therefore to be demonised. They should be ignored. If they don't like buses running past their homes, they should relocate to the likes of Court Lane or Woodwarde Road - people in the village and College Road have had almost 30 years to adjust to its presence now. Exactly that - I've always said on here that if people don't like it, then move - stop getting in the way of the things that can improve bus services for the majority. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 0:58:08 GMT
It's intriguing , that Citymapper are bringing back to life the fun of going on a night bus.
Back in the late 80's / 90's, getting a night bus home from the West End , especially at weekends, was a torrid experience.
Being aboard a N97 bound for Hounslow leaving Trafalgar Square full up, after being at the bus stop for at least ten mins whilst people struggle to cough up their fare, led to a fast ride out of town , on an extension of whatever nightclub the passengers had rolled out of.
The smell of hot dogs, booze, occasionally vomit, all added to the atmosphere that this was as much of the night out as the pub. / club was.
And so Citymapper are making the night bus "cool" again. I hope they do well. It's extremely interesting that a start up company have managed to set up technology that is better than anything TfL offers, and are quickly identifying travel trends and plugging gaps.
But it's not too late. I hope TfL work with Citymapper,. I have a feeling it could replace Uber, but in a more bus friendly way. As they say themselves , "We love buses"
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Post by snowman on Oct 5, 2017 8:28:02 GMT
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Post by thesquirrels on Oct 5, 2017 8:42:50 GMT
I caught an N279 home from Holloway n/b at around 2am on Sunday morning so got a chance to witness loading levels in action on the reduced N29 while we waited. Must say even on an 8 minute headway the N29s were two-thirds empty, likewise with the N279 that I caught where we got downstairs seats and sat in total peace the whole way home. Unheard of in previous years. There are legitimate issues with hacking routes in Metroline country down to 2bph but the N29 move seems like an easy win.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 5, 2017 8:47:27 GMT
I think we have to realistically realise that the Night tube is going to take alot of people off buses. Who is going to take the N29/279 back to Finsbury Park and Holloway when the Tube does it in 10 mins. Same as the 43 and 134 to Archway and Highgate.
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Post by 6HP502C on Oct 5, 2017 9:27:14 GMT
I think we have to realistically realise that the Night tube is going to take alot of people off buses. Who is going to take the N29/279 back to Finsbury Park and Holloway when the Tube does it in 10 mins. Same as the 43 and 134 to Archway and Highgate. I don't think anyone on here is disputing that north of the river where there's an intensive Night Tube service. I don't agree with the politicians who insisted on a blanket freeze on cuts for months after NT came in and think what was originally proposed and now being implemented in North London for weekends is about right. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 5, 2017 11:25:45 GMT
Entirely predictable from Mr Dismore. If City Hall and TfL are even half awake they will have their responses to this all worked out. I am more interested to see if Mr Dismore goes for the big bang "this is all awful" line of attack or decides to go in on some detail. He'll stand more chance with the latter approach as several of the changes have not been consulted on and the Mayor has already said the consultation process is not working and promised a full review. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 5, 2017 11:35:52 GMT
I think we have to realistically realise that the Night tube is going to take alot of people off buses. Who is going to take the N29/279 back to Finsbury Park and Holloway when the Tube does it in 10 mins. Same as the 43 and 134 to Archway and Highgate. I don't think anyone on here is disputing that north of the river where there's an intensive Night Tube service. I don't agree with the politicians who insisted on a blanket freeze on cuts for months after NT came in and think what was originally proposed and now being implemented in North London for weekends is about right. Hang on - we were promised a freeze and a review and more consultation from the Deputy Mayor. Yes she's a politician but she did this precisely to stave off what Mr Dismore is now complaining about. We haven't seen anything that substantiates TfL's position, post night tube introducition, for the original consulated on reductions nor the extra things that have since happened. As I have said before the thing that sticks in my craw with all this is the appalling inconsistency and failure of people to keep their promises. If this had been done properly, rather than in something resembling a blind panic, with the facts evident to everyone then the scope for criticism is vastly reduced. If only 10 people an hour are turning out for a service that's running every few mins then OK fine there's a real problem there that needs fixing. Just slashing night buses left, right and centre is no answer to this given there seems little recognition that those same routes provide the "fill in" last leg home from the station link in many cases. Would I use the night tube if I was at risk of a 29 min wait for a connecting bus home? Probably not. Do I want to walk for 20-25 mins in the middle of the night? Not really and I'm not in one of the more vulnerable categories of people. There is a bigger picture here and I am not sure TfL are quite "getting it" because £s are the main concern, nothing else. |
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Post by enviroPB on Oct 5, 2017 11:58:12 GMT
Quote via the newspaper article from TfL: Let's take this claim apart shall we? Jubilee line; Stratford has seen decreases on the N8 and planned frequency reductions on the N25, as well as the N98 seeing a frequency decrease at the Stanmore end. Picadilly line; has seen buses drop from 4 to 2 an hour at weekends at Cockfosters while the N9 though was originally in line to see an increased 4pbh at weekends to Heathrow, saw status quo at 3bph. The only thing they boosted was the N207 a good year after the Central line Night Tube and one can argue the N133 extension to Morden. Gosh, I do love PR jargon!!   thesquirrels I don't think anyone is being dismissive about cuts to be made to the night bus network; the question is how excessive should service levels be cut. I admit I had my doubts using the N15 after it went from 8 to 6 pbh on weekends, purely from crowd observations at Canning Town. The route does still see bunching but no one's being left behind at bus stops, which was a fear that didn't materialise. With other routes however, seeing reductions to their weeknight services that were not consulted on (a fair few Metroline routes); seeing routes that were consulted on for reductions but the cuts have gone beyond figures stated (N5 and 134) and routes like the 176 that was planned to & had weekend night freuqency increases but are now due to see cuts....well, TfL didn't consult on those elements and it's entirely right for people to not feel happy. |
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Post by redexpress on Oct 5, 2017 13:06:08 GMT
I think we have to realistically realise that the Night tube is going to take alot of people off buses. Who is going to take the N29/279 back to Finsbury Park and Holloway when the Tube does it in 10 mins. Same as the 43 and 134 to Archway and Highgate. Well yes, except that the night tube doesn't cover the 43 - and this is a route that serves the epicentre of London nightlife. The 134 was certainly overbussed at weekends, although there is still the issue of people interchanging between night tube and bus at Highgate (for Muswell Hill). This link has gone down from 8bph to 4bph - but with uncoordinated timetables, it's more like 2 buses every 30 mins. All this does is play into the hands of Uber. No point taking the night tube if you then have to wait 25 minutes for a connecting bus. If they could ensure a regular 15-minute interval between buses over the common section it'd be much more useful. And there is no justification for cutting these services on weeknights when there is no night tube. The N5 and (N)134 are back down to pre-2001 frequencies now. If patronage has really dropped that much on nights when there is no night tube, something has gone seriously wrong. They might as well just surrender the whole night travel market to Uber. |
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Post by sid on Oct 5, 2017 13:15:21 GMT
I think we have to realistically realise that the Night tube is going to take alot of people off buses. Who is going to take the N29/279 back to Finsbury Park and Holloway when the Tube does it in 10 mins. Same as the 43 and 134 to Archway and Highgate. I don't think anyone on here is disputing that north of the river where there's an intensive Night Tube service. I don't agree with the politicians who insisted on a blanket freeze on cuts for months after NT came in and think what was originally proposed and now being implemented in North London for weekends is about right. I also don't agree with the blanket freeze, there is no point in running buses that are no longer needed, it's just a complete and utter waste of resources. I do realise that there are going to be a small number of people worse off but that is an inevitable consequence of any scheme that benefits the vast majority, ie Crossrail and Tramlink. Meanwhile SE London has had little benefit from the night tube and the Vauxhall, Camberwell, Peckham, New Cross corridor urgently needs more resources and South Norwood still doesn't have any night service at all whilst there are buses running around North London carrying little more than fresh air, you just couldn't make it up! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 13:27:52 GMT
I don't think anyone on here is disputing that north of the river where there's an intensive Night Tube service. I don't agree with the politicians who insisted on a blanket freeze on cuts for months after NT came in and think what was originally proposed and now being implemented in North London for weekends is about right. I also don't agree with the blanket freeze, there is no point in running buses that are no longer needed, it's just a complete and utter waste of resources. I do realise that there are going to be a small number of people worse off but that is an inevitable consequence of any scheme that benefits the vast majority, ie Crossrail and Tramlink. Meanwhile SE London has had little benefit from the night tube and the Vauxhall, Camberwell, Peckham, New Cross corridor urgently needs more resources and South Norwood still doesn't have any night service at all. That’s quite a dangerous road to go down , because If approached as such, you could then justify withdrawing a few routes . So whilst some reductions make sense, others do not. N155 clings onto its excellent headway as well as tube. Oh look it goes through Tooting! Yes of course people just transfer to Uber. If TfL stick to their guns, no more Uber. Piccadilly Line is ineffectual at weekends, no response on the matter despite hundreds of complaints on social media every weekend. |
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Post by sid on Oct 5, 2017 13:40:09 GMT
I also don't agree with the blanket freeze, there is no point in running buses that are no longer needed, it's just a complete and utter waste of resources. I do realise that there are going to be a small number of people worse off but that is an inevitable consequence of any scheme that benefits the vast majority, ie Crossrail and Tramlink. Meanwhile SE London has had little benefit from the night tube and the Vauxhall, Camberwell, Peckham, New Cross corridor urgently needs more resources and South Norwood still doesn't have any night service at all. That’s quite a dangerous road to go down , because If approached as such, you could then justify withdrawing a few routes . So whilst some reductions make sense, others do not. N155 clings onto its excellent headway as well as tube. Oh look it goes through Tooting! Yes of course people just transfer to Uber. If TfL stick to their guns, no more Uber. Piccadilly Line is ineffectual at weekends, no response on the matter despite hundreds of complaints on social media every weekend. I think there is justification to withdraw some night routes on Friday and Saturday night, the 10 for example? Notwithstanding the current problems on the Piccadilly Line which will hopefully be resolved at some point and correct me if I'm wrong but I can't believe that the N155 still needs the enhanced level of service on Friday and Saturday night. The savings could be used for enhancements elsewhere such as extending the 36 to Lewisham and an additional service between there and Vauxhall and maybe a weekend night service on the 185 helping both the 36 and 176? And an N172 that I suggested previously, New Cross Gate to Brockley, the 122 route to Sydenham, the 176 route to Penge and the 75 or 197 route to Croydon, a sort of rail replacement for the London Overground. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 13:48:24 GMT
You see I wouldn't withdraw any routes without ensuring some replacement. I'm quite happy with ideas around extended non standard routes late evenings / early mornings as we've discussed before.
There is plenty more scope in Inner / Outer London for new services.
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