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Post by snoggle on May 23, 2016 17:47:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 19:42:53 GMT
Have a nice sleep on your final section late night drunkers! |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 21:33:38 GMT
A good decision. Especially when more strikes have also been announced. |
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Post by 6HP502C on May 25, 2016 16:17:45 GMT
I'm very much a proponent for the night bus network, but is there really any need to retain current service levels on routes like the N97?
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Post by sid on May 25, 2016 16:21:24 GMT
I'm very much a proponent for the night bus network, but is there really any need to retain current service levels on routes like the N97? Indeed and there are inevitably going to be a lot of empty buses trundling around on a lot of routes. |
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Post by snoggle on May 25, 2016 16:48:48 GMT
I'm very much a proponent for the night bus network, but is there really any need to retain current service levels on routes like the N97? Having just worked my way through the service development history of all Night bus routes [1] one thing that is quite telling in recent years. A number of routes heading west out of central London have suffered declining patronage for several years. I can't think of any particular reason as to why that would be. Ironically the N97 hasn't slumped as much as other routes but it still carries just shy of 400K pass jnys. That's much higher than the N22 or N10 for example and not far off what the N14 carries. The N9 has also seen consistent growth. Clearly the Night Tube will have some effect but it is only two nights a week albeit the busier ones. [1] part of updating Dr Snoggle's Magic Spreadsheet to make it ready for the new set of TfL patronage stats and to explain past statistical changes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 3:24:58 GMT
I'm very much a proponent for the night bus network, but is there really any need to retain current service levels on routes like the N97? Having just worked my way through the service development history of all Night bus routes [1] one thing that is quite telling in recent years. A number of routes heading west out of central London have suffered declining patronage for several years. I can't think of any particular reason as to why that would be. Ironically the N97 hasn't slumped as much as other routes but it still carries just shy of 400K pass jnys. That's much higher than the N22 or N10 for example and not far off what the N14 carries. The N9 has also seen consistent growth. Clearly the Night Tube will have some effect but it is only two nights a week albeit the busier ones. [1] part of updating Dr Snoggle's Magic Spreadsheet to make it ready for the new set of TfL patronage stats and to explain past statistical changes. I think TfL messed up West London by thinking people would change buses at Hammersmith at 3am to continue broken journeys. Whenever I've been out, I've found the timetables don't really help , I always seemed to just miss a 33 . The N22 to Richmond and Fulwell makes little sense logically. My evidence to show something went wrong is when the N9 did go to Richmond, via Putney, the frequency had to be put up to cope. The N9 now is still very busy, and I note that TfL want the week night frequency to be x15 mins. There are many 24/7 establishments in that corridor fuelling growth and you only have to see how many Heathrow shift workers use the 81 & 222 to realise even with a night tube service to Hesthrow, the N9 will remain a popular choice ( hopefully not taking advanatge of the Heathrow free travel scheme on way out !) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 8:12:07 GMT
Have given this a few minutes of thought.
Presuming that there will be more passengers disembarking from night tube at suburban stations, I also presume local night routes over day routes will see a rise in passengers.
But , at what frequency do people decide to walk instead of waiting ? I would suggest if you miss a half hourly bus, you will calculate that it would be quicker to walk ( obviously depends on your final destination)
If you miss a bus that runs every 20 mins, you may calculate it will be worth the wait, and so on.... So I'm suggesting the tipping point is between say 15-20 mins. Anything over, more people will walk.
Which leads me onto the question of safety.
Taking robbery as an example, in the suburbs, they mostly occur in side streets with limited lighting and cctv coverage. An it's without doubt that worse for wear people are selected by the robbers.
You are safer waiting at bus stops, bus stations, tube stations.
If more people are walking because of poor frequency bus services or non existent services, then I would expect a small increase in crime.
In short, I think there is a case that the standard night bus frequency should be at least every 20 mins.
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Post by RT3062 on Jun 2, 2016 10:49:33 GMT
Have given this a few minutes of thought. Presuming that there will be more passengers disembarking from night tube at suburban stations, I also presume local night routes over day routes will see a rise in passengers. But , at what frequency do people decide to walk instead of waiting ? I would suggest if you miss a half hourly bus, you will calculate that it would be quicker to walk ( obviously depends on your final destination) If you miss a bus that runs every 20 mins, you may calculate it will be worth the wait, and so on.... So I'm suggesting the tipping point is between say 15-20 mins. Anything over, more people will walk. Which leads me onto the question of safety. Taking robbery as an example, in the suburbs, they mostly occur in side streets with limited lighting and cctv coverage. An it's without doubt that worse for wear people are selected by the robbers. You are safer waiting at bus stops, bus stations, tube stations. If more people are walking because of poor frequency bus services or non existent services, then I would expect a small increase in crime. In short, I think there is a case that the standard night bus frequency should be at least every 20 mins. thats a good point you have made.certainly round where i live in hertfordshire they turn most of the street lights off at midnight. I would think that 15-20 would be ideal but im sure financal constraints would be thought of first. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 2, 2016 11:13:31 GMT
Have given this a few minutes of thought. Presuming that there will be more passengers disembarking from night tube at suburban stations, I also presume local night routes over day routes will see a rise in passengers. But , at what frequency do people decide to walk instead of waiting ? I would suggest if you miss a half hourly bus, you will calculate that it would be quicker to walk ( obviously depends on your final destination) If you miss a bus that runs every 20 mins, you may calculate it will be worth the wait, and so on.... So I'm suggesting the tipping point is between say 15-20 mins. Anything over, more people will walk. Which leads me onto the question of safety. Taking robbery as an example, in the suburbs, they mostly occur in side streets with limited lighting and cctv coverage. An it's without doubt that worse for wear people are selected by the robbers. You are safer waiting at bus stops, bus stations, tube stations. If more people are walking because of poor frequency bus services or non existent services, then I would expect a small increase in crime. In short, I think there is a case that the standard night bus frequency should be at least every 20 mins. For obvious reasons you're not going to get mega frequent night buses in the suburbs. Given the night tube itself will not be hugely frequent there would be merit in designating particular journeys as offering key connections? For example get the x15 and x45 Picc Line from Leicester Square to connect with the 111 at Hounslow East towards Cranford or the x12 and x42 Northern Line from Leicester Square for connections to the 102 and 83 at Golders Green. Identifying a sensible 5-7 min interchange time between tube and bus would cater for many people. The main problem is what do you do if the tube runs late and connections aren't made / become very short. Would TfL be prepared to be flexible and delay a night bus's departure by a couple of mins to maintain a connection? Obviously there are limits to this but the issues you cite about waiting time / people having to walk are very pertinent and Assembly Members have been asking about these sorts of issues for a while. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jun 2, 2016 13:26:06 GMT
I'd like to say that the Countdown system should allow people to better time their arrival at bus stops, but it's still incredibly patchy at night. It would be a bit better if starting drivers were made to sign their ETMs on at the garage, rather than at the stand just before going into service.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 2, 2016 14:45:21 GMT
I'd like to say that the Countdown system should allow people to better time their arrival at bus stops, but it's still incredibly patchy at night. It would be a bit better if starting drivers were made to sign their ETMs on at the garage, rather than at the stand just before going into service. Yes that would be the Countdown system that has now been hidden behind 27 layers of slow loading rubbish on the TfL website. The same website that has yet to be updated to provide real time info on the new sections of route served by the E8 and 110 and which also doesn't have timetables for them. Meanwhile Mr Munster had the timetables on his site available in advance. Oh and the same website that still has not reflected, months after it occurred, the switch of W11's stops at Walthamstow Central. The old Countdown system reflected all the changes prior to last weekend and dealt with the W11/357 swap over within days of it happening (it was a local initiative hence the delay in the centre catching up). I take your point about bus starting from termini - the N73 from Walthamstow is a nightmare for this given the buses can get from there to my local stop in almost the same time it takes to walk to the stop from my flat (no traffic and hyper drive from the NB4Ls). Still it's a minor point when set against the base data being borked and the site being clunky and slow. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 2, 2016 18:24:00 GMT
In the Bus User study I linked to in another post there is some data about the percentage of people who walk to catch a night bus or walk to their destination having alighted from the bus. In each case the percentage of people walking is over 60%. Connecting to / from another bus is around another 20% of the total. This refers to people travelling at weekends.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 14, 2016 17:15:39 GMT
Although the TfL consultation page has yet to be updated I see that LOTS are suggesting that the weekend night services on the 34, 123, 145, 158, 296, E1, W3, W7 will commence on 19 August night. Also the 271 becomes the N271 as it is extended back to Liverpool St Bus Station.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 20:32:55 GMT
Although the TfL consultation page has yet to be updated I see that LOTS are suggesting that the weekend night services on the 34, 123, 145, 158, 296, E1, W3, W7 will commence on 19 August night. Also the 271 becomes the N271 as it is extended back to Liverpool St Bus Station. Does this mean bus stops will have N271 tiles? |
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