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Post by snoggle on Jul 14, 2016 21:44:27 GMT
Although the TfL consultation page has yet to be updated I see that LOTS are suggesting that the weekend night services on the 34, 123, 145, 158, 296, E1, W3, W7 will commence on 19 August night. Also the 271 becomes the N271 as it is extended back to Liverpool St Bus Station. Does this mean bus stops will have N271 tiles? Don't see why not. I assume the buses will show N271 too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 22:02:20 GMT
Does this mean bus stops will have N271 tiles? Don't see why not. I assume the buses will show N271 too.  it has been a while since I last saw an N271! |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 14, 2016 23:05:27 GMT
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 15, 2016 11:26:17 GMT
Although the TfL consultation page has yet to be updated I see that LOTS are suggesting that the weekend night services on the 34, 123, 145, 158, 296, E1, W3, W7 will commence on 19 August night. Also the 271 becomes the N271 as it is extended back to Liverpool St Bus Station. Sorry to be pedantic but is the 214's night service at least going to be extended for the Night Tube as well? With its frequency at night relatively high and the City branch of the Northern Line not operational for now; it would be great if City Road got a better & quicker link to the Central line as opposed to the N205 via Shoreditch and the 43 to Bank. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 15, 2016 13:15:08 GMT
Although the TfL consultation page has yet to be updated I see that LOTS are suggesting that the weekend night services on the 34, 123, 145, 158, 296, E1, W3, W7 will commence on 19 August night. Also the 271 becomes the N271 as it is extended back to Liverpool St Bus Station. Sorry to be pedantic but is the 214's night service at least going to be extended for the Night Tube as well? Not that I am aware of. I expect it will only happen when TfL re-extend the day service to Liverpool St. Given we have new diversions due to works on Moorgate I don't see that happening any time soon. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 19, 2016 10:39:23 GMT
That's interesting as it suggests that the assessment of radial night bus links will be made on Winter time usage of night tube and night buses rather than Summer time when people are more likely to be out and about in the warmer weather. It also suggests that the Night Tube is all going to happen in the Autumn (we're a month away and not a thing has been said about the launch on the 2 lines and associated bus changes). |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jul 19, 2016 14:47:03 GMT
That's interesting as it suggests that the assessment of radial night bus links will be made on Winter time usage of night tube and night buses rather than Summer time when people are more likely to be out and about in the warmer weather. It also suggests that the Night Tube is all going to happen in the Autumn (we're a month away and not a thing has been said about the launch on the 2 lines and associated bus changes). I'm sure any degree of seasonal variation in usage could be reasonably extrapolated from current data. If a sample of night routes was selected, it's likely there would be a fairly consistent uplift in usage during summer months compared to the winter. This could then be applied to whatever figures the upcoming review produces. As for Night Tube, best to keep an eye out for official TfL updates  |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 19, 2016 18:17:46 GMT
That's interesting as it suggests that the assessment of radial night bus links will be made on Winter time usage of night tube and night buses rather than Summer time when people are more likely to be out and about in the warmer weather. It also suggests that the Night Tube is all going to happen in the Autumn (we're a month away and not a thing has been said about the launch on the 2 lines and associated bus changes). I'm sure any degree of seasonal variation in usage could be reasonably extrapolated from current data. If a sample of night routes was selected, it's likely there would be a fairly consistent uplift in usage during summer months compared to the winter. This could then be applied to whatever figures the upcoming review produces. As for Night Tube, best to keep an eye out for official TfL updates I understand your comments but given the way bus patronage has been all over the place for many, many months and that growth has yet to return / stabilise I'd venture to suggest that a snap shot view after 6 months is not statistically robust given the underlying data volatility. Unless every single night tube is packed full every time they run then I am doubtful TfL will be able to declare the Night Tube a "success" within 6 months. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 20, 2016 0:59:58 GMT
I'm sure any degree of seasonal variation in usage could be reasonably extrapolated from current data. If a sample of night routes was selected, it's likely there would be a fairly consistent uplift in usage during summer months compared to the winter. This could then be applied to whatever figures the upcoming review produces. As for Night Tube, best to keep an eye out for official TfL updates I understand your comments but given the way bus patronage has been all over the place for many, many months and that growth has yet to return / stabilise I'd venture to suggest that a snap shot view after 6 months is not statistically robust given the underlying data volatility. Unless every single night tube is packed full every time they run then I am doubtful TfL will be able to declare the Night Tube a "success" within 6 months. For once TfL's data approach is finally benefitting the customers!! Quite simply put, it's brash, vivacious and audacious to cut levels to what is seen as a vital service (night bus network) if throwing an unknown entity like the Night Tube. There are so many variables at play that models can't easily & accurately forecast the outcome. For example; the data would suggest the same amount of people accessing London at night. However before the scheme fell through, I witnessed many people outside London (my friends included) making plans to go out in London on the night the Night Tube was going to start...purely for no other reason than that extra travelling option at night. If it did indeed commenced on the eve of the Rugby World Cup, then how can TfL possibly use that data with confidence to project assumptions/actions? The simple truth is this is an unknown project which has no real data to fall back on for pre-made assumptions. I have always thought and wondered why TfL never talked about New Year's Eve when referring to the Night Tube. Then it hit me that travel is free for that night (despite the trains running 24 hours into the morning) so can't effectively be used as 'solid' info. Another thing that's been niggling me the past couple days; what effect will the Hopper ticket have on the night bus network? If someone can afford to take the Night Tube then they won't hesitate to do so. But if you're still using the bus because you have no other option then good news! Passengers won't ram night buses from start to finish (instead board en masse at stations/interchanges) and bus users have the luxury of making 2 journeys [or 1 connection] for the price of a single fare. The Night Tube may taper demand for the night bus network but the Hopper ticket may simply see usage levels back to status quo. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 20, 2016 10:15:13 GMT
For once TfL's data approach is finally benefitting the customers!! Quite simply put, it's brash, vivacious and audacious to cut levels to what is seen as a vital service (night bus network) if throwing an unknown entity like the Night Tube. There are so many variables at play that models can't easily & accurately forecast the outcome. For example; the data would suggest the same amount of people accessing London at night. However before the scheme fell through, I witnessed many people outside London (my friends included) making plans to go out in London on the night the Night Tube was going to start...purely for no other reason than that extra travelling option at night. If it did indeed commenced on the eve of the Rugby World Cup, then how can TfL possibly use that data with confidence to project assumptions/actions? The simple truth is this is an unknown project which has no real data to fall back on for pre-made assumptions. I have always thought and wondered why TfL never talked about New Year's Eve when referring to the Night Tube. Then it hit me that travel is free for that night (despite the trains running 24 hours into the morning) so can't effectively be used as 'solid' info. Another thing that's been niggling me the past couple days; what effect will the Hopper ticket have on the night bus network? If someone can afford to take the Night Tube then they won't hesitate to do so. But if you're still using the bus because you have no other option then good news! Passengers won't ram night buses from start to finish (instead board en masse at stations/interchanges) and bus users have the luxury of making 2 journeys [or 1 connection] for the price of a single fare. The Night Tube may taper demand for the night bus network but the Hopper ticket may simply see usage levels back to status quo. I expect known data "outliers" would always be discounted *unless* you were specifically analysing the data on that day / time period. It's well known that Period 10 (covering Christmas and NY) brings a steep fall in public transport usage in London even if NYE sees a spike in night time demand. As you say free travel is another factor but given it's only really for return trips after midnight I doubt it is a big factor in pushing demand. On the hopper ticket I doubt it will have too much impact on night buses purely because journey times are often longer than 60 mins and there are not many routes to change on to. If you're travelling purely in the suburbs then there might be some advantage but with buses only every 30 mins on many routes a missed connection may mean a second fare is charged. I can still see why people may remain with night buses over the night tube - if the bus gets you much nearer your front door than the tube does and you are concerned about a night time walk from the station / waiting for a connection at the station. People may be happy to trade a longer journey time in order to feel / be safer. I also think there is a big unknown about how safe the night tube will be given large volumes of drunk people tend not to mix well with electricity and fast moving trains. BTP are rumoured to be deploying large numbers of officers on the Night Tube when it starts running - partly due to political pressure. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 15:24:47 GMT
The N91 and 94 are not having reduced frequencies.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 20, 2016 15:45:20 GMT
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 21, 2016 1:46:13 GMT
Looking at the 145 review, it seems that I was the only one to mention night-time shopping at a 24 hour Asda. Guess I'm the only one who likes to shop at 3 in the morning  Also kudos to whoever mentioned airport links; completely forgot there is a 24 hour coach service (or very close to it) running from Redbridge to Stansted Airport. Even if the route was operational at weekends, I can see it being very beneficial for anyone living along the 145 hoping to catch a plane on a Sunday morning in particular. It took me a little while to realise what I said but it's still another positive comment to get the 145 (and hopefully the 158 & 154) to 24 hours, 7 days a week. Well, that and thinlizzy's "Get me home from the pub, pronto!"    |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 9:27:19 GMT
I still question the judgement displayed with the withdrawal of the night 75. Norwood Junction / Lower Sydenham / Addiscombe / Selhurst / Elmers End areas unserved still , big gaps in the network there in my opinion. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Jul 21, 2016 14:57:40 GMT
I dont get the complaints about long waits for the these new night routes. They dont exist now, how can they complain about that? Try waiting for a 123 at 2am now, see how long the wait is.
Maybe I am being a bit harsh but am I a missing something?
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it has been a while since I last saw an N271! 
Surprised that Higham Hill was a centre for moans about the night 123 / 158. 
Also kudos to whoever mentioned airport links; completely forgot there is a 24 hour coach service (or very close to it) running from Redbridge to Stansted Airport. Even if the route was operational at weekends, I can see it being very beneficial for anyone living along the 145 hoping to catch a plane on a Sunday morning in particular.
