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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 13, 2021 10:03:43 GMT
A night route running between Oxford Circus to West Drayton. Via: N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Cherry Lane and route 222 to West Drayton. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. A night route running between Oxford Circus and Hattons Cross N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Stockley Road, route A10 to Heathrow Central, route N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 and route 482 to Hattons Cross. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. Even for night routes, i know its fantasy but I think you should streamline the routes a bit more, like an objective of TfLs is to get people on night bus rather than using uber, and i think more direct night routes would be more helpful, maybe the Acton-Hayes sections something could be more direct, like following the 95 potentially, instead of dipping in and out of places. I also think TfLs strat with night buses is to have central london night buses, go through main parts of areas, while having 24-hr routes before they were cut, as more localised routes covering areas more in-depth, but serving fewer areas. Like N18 would take from cent london to harrow, then 114/140/183 would cover a greater area of harrow. I think that is personally a better system. But that just my opinion. I think the N18 is a bad example as it is very streamlined but for some others yes they can be indirect (cough cough N5) however alternatives exist such as the N16 which outweighs the problem and the N5 serves dense residential areas like Colindale. |
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 13, 2021 21:02:35 GMT
Even for night routes, i know its fantasy but I think you should streamline the routes a bit more, like an objective of TfLs is to get people on night bus rather than using uber, and i think more direct night routes would be more helpful, maybe the Acton-Hayes sections something could be more direct, like following the 95 potentially, instead of dipping in and out of places. I also think TfLs strat with night buses is to have central london night buses, go through main parts of areas, while having 24-hr routes before they were cut, as more localised routes covering areas more in-depth, but serving fewer areas. Like N18 would take from cent london to harrow, then 114/140/183 would cover a greater area of harrow. I think that is personally a better system. But that just my opinion. I think the N18 is a bad example as it is very streamlined but for some others yes they can be indirect (cough cough N5) however alternatives exist such as the N16 which outweighs the problem and the N5 serves dense residential areas like Colindale. Like the N5 doesn't really follow a traditional route though, and more streamlined than i thought, only after Golders Green does it start to get indirect with places such as Colindale, in which maybe another night bus like a 204 would be useful as Wembley could do with 1 or 2 extra night buses considering it only has N18,N83 and 297, and in the meantime serving the same areas of Colindale that the N5 would. Like i can list off a few examples. N207 with Ealing and Uxbridge (still needs a another night bus, maybe N114). N9 with Hounslow and Heathrow. Also the N113 along with the N16, quite streamlined as well. N20 (combination of 134 and 263) with Finchley and Barnet. N109 with Croydon. There are a few more examples nut those are the ones i could think of. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 13, 2021 21:14:12 GMT
I think the N18 is a bad example as it is very streamlined but for some others yes they can be indirect (cough cough N5) however alternatives exist such as the N16 which outweighs the problem and the N5 serves dense residential areas like Colindale. Like the N5 doesn't really follow a traditional route though, and more streamlined than i thought, only after Golders Green does it start to get indirect with places such as Colindale, in which maybe another night bus like a 204 would be useful as Wembley could do with 1 or 2 extra night buses considering it only has N18,N83 and 297, and in the meantime serving the same areas of Colindale that the N5 would. Like i can list off a few examples. N207 with Ealing and Uxbridge (still needs a another night bus, maybe N114). N9 with Hounslow and Heathrow. Also the N113 along with the N16, quite streamlined as well. N20 (combination of 134 and 263) with Finchley and Barnet. N109 with Croydon. There are a few more examples nut those are the ones i could think of. Oh I totally understand what you're saying however you have to remember for the forseeable future the Night Tube is suspended and as has been reported on routes like the N9 buses get very busy leaving Central London and I think in the case of the N5, pre Night Tube the route was packed to the rafters even after Colindale so I think replacing the N5 on that section with the 204 would be very retrogade.
I can't comment on extra night buses needed in Wembley but I'll trust your judgement - perhaps an N52 extension could suffice? You also have to remember the N18 is at it's most frequent section so I think that better matches demand.
The 134/263 don't entirely follow the N20, the N20 dips round East End Road/Finchley Central so a bit indirect.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 13, 2021 21:28:53 GMT
If there is one golders green route that would be hacked the 328 would be more likely than 260, as statically it is more unreliable when you look at bus performance report. The 260/328 let's be honest are the most likely but if push comes to shove I think the 260 is the most likely. The Golders Green to Kilburn link has existed forever and I myself would oppose it. Well during this periods in 2020, it was actually interesting to see that the 460 has performed much worse than the 260 and 328, in terms of meeting the 90% mileage threshold, so im assuming it runs into alot of problems north of golders green, when coming to curtailment, maybe at finchley central or henlys corner? It would probably be better to revaluate the bus network at golders green and others when ULEZ gets expanded, which would see a decline in car usage before making any decisions about curtailment and extentions. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 13, 2021 21:37:33 GMT
The 260/328 let's be honest are the most likely but if push comes to shove I think the 260 is the most likely. The Golders Green to Kilburn link has existed forever and I myself would oppose it. Well during this periods in 2020, it was actually interesting to see that the 460 has performed much worse than the 260 and 328, in terms of meeting the 90% mileage threshold, so im assuming it runs into alot of problems north of golders green, when coming to curtailment, maybe at finchley central or henlys corner? It would probably be better to revaluate the bus network at golders green and others when ULEZ gets expanded, which would see a decline in car usage before making any decisions about curtailment and extentions. What sort of re-evaluation are you looking at?
Can I also just say that curtailing the route at Henlys or Finchley would be a nightmare - the Golders Green - North Finchley corridor has solid loadings throughout most of the day and the 13 is already seeing a reduction
I'd also add that despite the 112 being there the West London links are an absolute lifeline - for example the Finchley/Temple Fortune to Cricklewood link is a very well used link
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Aug 13, 2021 22:27:46 GMT
Well during this periods in 2020, it was actually interesting to see that the 460 has performed much worse than the 260 and 328, in terms of meeting the 90% mileage threshold, so im assuming it runs into alot of problems north of golders green, when coming to curtailment, maybe at finchley central or henlys corner? It would probably be better to revaluate the bus network at golders green and others when ULEZ gets expanded, which would see a decline in car usage before making any decisions about curtailment and extentions. What sort of re-evaluation are you looking at?
Can I also just say that curtailing the route at Henlys or Finchley would be a nightmare - the Golders Green - North Finchley corridor has solid loadings throughout most of the day and the 13 is already seeing a reduction
I'd also add that despite the 112 being there the West London links are an absolute lifeline - for example the Finchley/Temple Fortune to Cricklewood link is a very well used link
i Think you misunderstood me i was saying before you start suggesting cutting routes like 260, like it should be after the ULEZ expansion where traffic flow should decrease improving bus reliability and journey times. The 226 is useful as well. I was just inferring from the 460 bus performance data that it trips may not reach North Finchley due to mileage targets not being reached and those are the two turning points for the 460 between GG and NF. Im not suggesting to curtail it, if anything i want the 460 to be extended. |
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Post by cl54 on Aug 14, 2021 15:42:29 GMT
A night route running between Oxford Circus to West Drayton. Via: N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Cherry Lane and route 222 to West Drayton. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. A night route running between Oxford Circus and Hattons Cross N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Stockley Road, route A10 to Heathrow Central, route N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 and route 482 to Hattons Cross. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. Crossrail may have an all night service. There are already some night services run by Great Western. Even if it doesn't there will be late night/early morning services. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 14, 2021 16:01:37 GMT
A night route running between Oxford Circus to West Drayton. Via: N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Cherry Lane and route 222 to West Drayton. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. A night route running between Oxford Circus and Hattons Cross N7 to Marble Arch, Bayswater Road, route N207 to Lancaster Gate, Lancaster Terrace, Sussex Gardens, Westbourne Terrace, Craven Road, Prae Street, Paddington Station, Chapel Street, Edgware Road Station (Circle, District and Ham & City lines), Old Marylebone Road, Marylebone Road, Marylebone Flyover, Westway, Savoy Circus, Western Avenue, Gypsy Corner, Leamington Park, Horn Lane, Acton Mainline Station, Steyne Road, Acton High Street, route N207 to Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Drayton Green Road, Argyle Road, West Ealing Station, Sutherland Road, Drayton Green, Drayton Bridge Road, Drayton Green Station, Greenford Avenue, Hanwell Station, Church Road, Uxbridge Road, route E8 to Hounlow Bell, 120 to Southall Town Hall, The Broadway, Uxbridge Road, Hayes By Pass, Hayes The Grapes, Coldharbour Lane, route 140 to Hayes & Harlington Station, Station Road, Shepiston Lane, Stockley Road, route A10 to Heathrow Central, route N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 and route 482 to Hattons Cross. Purpose: To Provide a night service for the Crossrail. Crossrail may have an all night service. There are already some night services run by Great Western. Even if it doesn't there will be late night/early morning services. Then they might not. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 14, 2021 16:36:16 GMT
I would be very surprised if we didn't see a 24-hour Elizabeth Line on Friday and Saturday nights at least. Half-hourly on each branch (Reading, Heathrow T5. Abbey Wood, Shenfield) and a 15-minute service between Hayes & Harlington and Whitechapel. It might have to wait until the May 2023 timetable change but I reckon it will come.
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Post by cl54 on Aug 14, 2021 17:06:56 GMT
Crossrail may have an all night service. There are already some night services run by Great Western. Even if it doesn't there will be late night/early morning services. Then they might not. Heathrow is closed much of the night for noise restrictions. There are already night trains from Paddington at 00:34, 01:34 and 03:34 during the week. These will continue to be operated by Great Western or Elizabeth line. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 14, 2021 17:09:36 GMT
Heathrow is closed much of the night for noise restrictions. There are already night trains from Paddington at 00:34, 01:34 and 03:34 during the week. These will continue to be operated by Great Western or Elizabeth line. Yeah but don’t Heathrow have workers. My idea for the night routes for Crossrail they could also act as feeder to Cross-rail and GWR for passengers at night. |
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Post by cl54 on Aug 14, 2021 18:45:13 GMT
Heathrow is closed much of the night for noise restrictions. There are already night trains from Paddington at 00:34, 01:34 and 03:34 during the week. These will continue to be operated by Great Western or Elizabeth line. Yeah but don’t Heathrow have workers. My idea for the night routes for Crossrail they could also act as feeder to Cross-rail and GWR for passengers at night. Most Heathrow workers live locally and there are bus services in place. Otherwise people tend to live where night buses are running. Duplicating the existing night network isn't really likely even in the fantasy world. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 14, 2021 18:53:24 GMT
Yeah but don’t Heathrow have workers. My idea for the night routes for Crossrail they could also act as feeder to Cross-rail and GWR for passengers at night. Most Heathrow workers live locally and there are bus services in place. Otherwise people tend to live where night buses are running. Duplicating the existing night network isn't really likely even in the fantasy world. Well it’s a fantasy and not real. |
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Post by nad1152597 on Aug 15, 2021 17:59:44 GMT
I think that demand for buses in Central London has decreased due to the pandemic. However, I believe that demand would increase if journeys were faster. Slow bus speeds are a major factor in people choosing to use alternative methods of transport.
The following changes are designed to shorten journey times for longer routes. However, I realise certain links would be broken.
Bring route 4 back to Waterloo
Divert route 341 from Waterloo to City Thameslink via Stamford Street, Blackfriars and New Bridge Street.
Divert route 76 via Fetter Lane and Holborn Circus to St Paul's.
Divert route 30 from Angel Station to Balls Pond Road via Essex Road. Route 56 will divert via Upper Street and St Paul's Road.
476- Angel Road Superstores to Kings Cross. Would follow 341 route from Tottenham to Newington Green. Now be made a 24 hour route.
341- Northumberland Park to Waterloo. Would follow 476 route from Tottenham to Newington Green. No longer a 24 hour route.
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Post by nad1152597 on Aug 15, 2021 19:57:54 GMT
If savings could be made, I would consider doing the following:
N69- Walthamstow Central to Manor Park (night 474 discontinued).
N25- Ilford to Barking Riverside (may be too long). Night EL1 discontinued.
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