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Post by WH241 on Aug 16, 2021 13:18:48 GMT
Some Crossrail/Elizabeth Line ideas: 15- Extended from Poplar to Prince Regent via 115 route to Canning Town and 147 route to Prince Regent. 474 would remain on Silvertown Way. 330 extension cancelled. Possible routing via Whitechapel as per the consultation proposed for route 115. 25- Extended from Bank to Clerkenwell Green. Via 26 route from Bank to Ludgate Circus and route 63 to Clerkenwell Green. 53- Extended from Elephant and Castle to Clerkenwell Green. One routing could be via Westminster Bridge Road, York Road, Stamford Street and 63 route. Another routing is following the 63 route from Elephant and Castle. With option 2, route 40 is withdrawn from Elephant & Castle and Clerkenwell Green. 115- Extended from East Ham, Barking Road to Manor Park via 474 route (304/474 would need to make room at Manor Park with a route change). Extended from Aldgate to Liverpool Street. For the Liverpool Street extension, if there are no banned turns at Fenchurch Street to Bishopsgate I would send it via Fenchurch Street. Possible routing via Whitechapel as per Crossrail consultation. 135- Possible routing via Whitechapel as per Crossrail consultation for route 115. The 15 I could see it work but not with the current buses as the roads are very tight (then you have selfish drivers in their cars going down tight roads and not giving way to others). What route would you swap the 15 current vehicles with? I really see no benefits to running the 15 to Prince Regent! Canning Town Station yes but does Keir Hardie really need a link to the City? The DLR and Elizabeth Line (2022) is more than adequate IMO. As I said in another post you really couldn't have the 15,147 and 241 on the estate section so that would mean we lose or Barking Road link especially if the 241/474 changes were scrapped as suggested by the orginal poster. Thankfully these are all fantasy and TfL seem more sensible in changes. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 16, 2021 13:22:53 GMT
Others more knowledgeable about East London than I have taken you to task on the 15 etc so I’ll deal with the 53. Your 53 idea makes the route too long. I suppose what you could do is reroute the 453 so it takes your option A, and extend the 12 from Oxford Circus to Marylebone. If there is a further worry about loss of Old Kent Road to Oxford Circus, then reroute the 21 from Bricklayers Arms via the 453 to Oxford Circus and extend the 141 (possibly too long?) or 388 to Old Kent Road Tesco - however I think that would require another route to move out - and that’s a spaghetti I’m not thinking about now 😂 I think one of 21 or 141 can be removed from the Moorgate - Old Street - Hoxton corridor. 453s get very busy along Old Kent Road, personally I've seen and used many completely full all the way to Oxford Circus in both directions. It shouldn't be removed from there But the idea was to replace the 453 with a rerouted 21. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it all but there is a case for removing either the 21 or 141 from the London Bridge to Newington Green section. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 16, 2021 13:35:47 GMT
Some Crossrail/Elizabeth Line ideas: 15- Extended from Poplar to Prince Regent via 115 route to Canning Town and 147 route to Prince Regent. 474 would remain on Silvertown Way. 330 extension cancelled. Possible routing via Whitechapel as per the consultation proposed for route 115. 25- Extended from Bank to Clerkenwell Green. Via 26 route from Bank to Ludgate Circus and route 63 to Clerkenwell Green. 53- Extended from Elephant and Castle to Clerkenwell Green. One routing could be via Westminster Bridge Road, York Road, Stamford Street and 63 route. Another routing is following the 63 route from Elephant and Castle. With option 2, route 40 is withdrawn from Elephant & Castle and Clerkenwell Green. 115- Extended from East Ham, Barking Road to Manor Park via 474 route (304/474 would need to make room at Manor Park with a route change). Extended from Aldgate to Liverpool Street. For the Liverpool Street extension, if there are no banned turns at Fenchurch Street to Bishopsgate I would send it via Fenchurch Street. Possible routing via Whitechapel as per Crossrail consultation. 135- Possible routing via Whitechapel as per Crossrail consultation for route 115. Others more knowledgeable about East London than I have taken you to task on the 15 etc so I’ll deal with the 53. Your 53 idea makes the route too long. I suppose what you could do is reroute the 453 so it takes your option A, and extend the 12 from Oxford Circus to Marylebone. If there is a further worry about loss of Old Kent Road to Oxford Circus, then reroute the 21 from Bricklayers Arms via the 453 to Oxford Circus and extend the 141 (possibly too long?) or 388 to Old Kent Road Tesco - however I think that would require another route to move out - and that’s a spaghetti I’m not thinking about now 😂 I think one of 21 or 141 can be removed from the Moorgate - Old Street - Hoxton corridor. I think Wood Green to Old Kent Road Tesco would be viable for the 141 and extend the 29 to Palmers Green. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 16, 2021 13:37:44 GMT
453s get very busy along Old Kent Road, personally I've seen and used many completely full all the way to Oxford Circus in both directions. It shouldn't be removed from there But the idea was to replace the 453 with a rerouted 21. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it all but there is a case for removing either the 21 or 141 from the London Bridge to Newington Green section. I would argue for a hospital link and that loads to at points tend to empty out round Old Street there be a case for cutting the 21 back to Old Street/Hoxton Baring Street instead of removing it entirely through Borough? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 16, 2021 13:45:04 GMT
Others more knowledgeable about East London than I have taken you to task on the 15 etc so I’ll deal with the 53. Your 53 idea makes the route too long. I suppose what you could do is reroute the 453 so it takes your option A, and extend the 12 from Oxford Circus to Marylebone. If there is a further worry about loss of Old Kent Road to Oxford Circus, then reroute the 21 from Bricklayers Arms via the 453 to Oxford Circus and extend the 141 (possibly too long?) or 388 to Old Kent Road Tesco - however I think that would require another route to move out - and that’s a spaghetti I’m not thinking about now 😂 I think one of 21 or 141 can be removed from the Moorgate - Old Street - Hoxton corridor. I think Wood Green to Old Kent Road Tesco would be viable for the 141 and extend the 29 to Palmers Green. The 29 would be too high frequency for that section and I'd hate to see any of the routes between Palmers Green and Wood Green hacked back to AD |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 16, 2021 13:55:20 GMT
I think Wood Green to Old Kent Road Tesco would be viable for the 141 and extend the 29 to Palmers Green. The 29 would be too high frequency for that section and I'd hate to see any of the routes between Palmers Green and Wood Green hacked back to AD The 29 is only slightly more frequent than the 141. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 16, 2021 13:59:55 GMT
But the idea was to replace the 453 with a rerouted 21. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it all but there is a case for removing either the 21 or 141 from the London Bridge to Newington Green section. I would argue for a hospital link and that loads to at points tend to empty out round Old Street there be a case for cutting the 21 back to Old Street/Hoxton Baring Street instead of removing it entirely through Borough? Ideally there would be one route Palmers Green or Wood Green to New Cross or Lewisham but that obviously won't happen under TfL criteria. Probably end up with the 141 staying as it and the 21 being reduced to London Bridge to Lewisham. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 16, 2021 14:32:18 GMT
Others more knowledgeable about East London than I have taken you to task on the 15 etc so I’ll deal with the 53. Your 53 idea makes the route too long. I suppose what you could do is reroute the 453 so it takes your option A, and extend the 12 from Oxford Circus to Marylebone. If there is a further worry about loss of Old Kent Road to Oxford Circus, then reroute the 21 from Bricklayers Arms via the 453 to Oxford Circus and extend the 141 (possibly too long?) or 388 to Old Kent Road Tesco - however I think that would require another route to move out - and that’s a spaghetti I’m not thinking about now 😂 I think one of 21 or 141 can be removed from the Moorgate - Old Street - Hoxton corridor. I think Wood Green to Old Kent Road Tesco would be viable for the 141 and extend the 29 to Palmers Green. On what basis is the 141 viable as a Wood Green to Old Kent Road, Tesco route? Same for the 29? |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 16, 2021 14:33:18 GMT
453s get very busy along Old Kent Road, personally I've seen and used many completely full all the way to Oxford Circus in both directions. It shouldn't be removed from there But the idea was to replace the 453 with a rerouted 21. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it all but there is a case for removing either the 21 or 141 from the London Bridge to Newington Green section. What is the case for removing one of these two routes from that section? |
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Post by YX10FFN on Aug 16, 2021 15:53:20 GMT
The H28 proposal is 5 years old and other proposals from there were pushed through such as the E8s however the H28s faced significant opposition due to desertion of areas such as the Wood Lane area in Osterley which would lose the service and the same mistakes that occurred on the 384 and may take place on the R7 cannot be repeated. Though I understand routes should be more direct it shouldn't be at the expense of side roads. I doubt the H28 proposal is taking place I misread @buses1350 's proposal as via Wood Lane and not Gillette Corner. On another note, could this bus route be extended down to Richmond? That would be good to provide links to Ivybridge, WMH, Gillette Corner, Southall and Ealing Hospital from Richmond. Map below, incorporating related changes to the the 237, 490 and H22. This route would run every 12 minutes single deck and double run at WMH, with the 490 decked. The H22 would stand at WK but moved to the current 237 stand if lost. YX10FFN can you confirm that the Richmond Station stand is feasible and, if not, where the 490 could stand otherwise. View AttachmentI've made previous route ideas on the potential to resurrect a stand at the former northbound Richmond Station stop outside Carluccios, where the top half of the current taxi rank is. I think its definitely a feasible stand as at least half of that taxi rank can be taken out due to pure lack of demand. On reflection, the only downside and one which may make the council reluctant is that when the H37 used that stand it caused more congestion on an already congested road, one of the main reasons it was extended to Manor Circus. In terms of the route itself I like the idea of a direct Richmond-WMH link. Richmond currently doesn't have access to either Kingston or West Mid Hospitals, the H37 and 371 go close but at least a 5 minute walk away for both. I do think however, with your plan implemented, Richmond to St Margarets and WMH to Osterley would become over bussed. The H28 is well used but I don't think anything else is needed (unless I missed you removing the H28 from that section). Southall to Isleworth is an interesting new link and would partly relieve the 120. In my experience of the 490 there haven't been any serious capacity problems, it's well used but I personally don't think it needs to be decked. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Aug 16, 2021 15:57:27 GMT
The 15 I could see it work but not with the current buses as the roads are very tight (then you have selfish drivers in their cars going down tight roads and not giving way to others). What route would you swap the 15 current vehicles with? I really see no benefits to running the 15 to Prince Regent! Canning Town Station yes but does Keir Hardie really need a link to the City? The DLR and Elizabeth Line (2022) is more than adequate IMO. As I said in another post you really couldn't have the 15,147 and 241 on the estate section so that would mean we lose or Barking Road link especially if the 241/474 changes were scrapped as suggested by the orginal poster. Thankfully these are all fantasy and TfL seem more sensible in changes. I'd personally leave the 147 and 474 as it is right now but maybe have the 15 over there at Prince Regent. I would have suggested Priory Road where U used to be but I think all of that area is now the new housing estate where the old stadium used to be. |
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Post by WH241 on Aug 16, 2021 16:52:43 GMT
I really see no benefits to running the 15 to Prince Regent! Canning Town Station yes but does Keir Hardie really need a link to the City? The DLR and Elizabeth Line (2022) is more than adequate IMO. As I said in another post you really couldn't have the 15,147 and 241 on the estate section so that would mean we lose or Barking Road link especially if the 241/474 changes were scrapped as suggested by the orginal poster. Thankfully these are all fantasy and TfL seem more sensible in changes. I'd personally leave the 147 and 474 as it is right now but maybe have the 15 over there at Prince Regent. I would have suggested Priory Road where U used to be but I think all of that area is now the new housing estate where the old stadium used to be. So you would have the 15,147 and 241 all running via Keir Hardie or the 241 to Pontoon Dock? If so I'm repeating my self but you are then expecting passengers to either walk from Canning Town station or change buses to travel around to Barking Road. Believe me that wouldn't be popular, lots of older passengers / people with shopping who would be disadvantaged. I think the current proposed changes to the 474 are better than the 15 despite it giving another East Ham link,
I am really struggling to see what benefit the 15 would bring to Prince Regent especially with the Elizabeth Line opening soon. I can't see a big demand of passengers from here heading towards Aldgate.
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Post by MKAY315 on Aug 16, 2021 17:10:36 GMT
I'd personally leave the 147 and 474 as it is right now but maybe have the 15 over there at Prince Regent. I would have suggested Priory Road where U used to be but I think all of that area is now the new housing estate where the old stadium used to be. So you would have the 15,147 and 241 all running via Keir Hardie or the 241 to Pontoon Dock? If so I'm repeating my self but you are then expecting passengers to either walk from Canning Town station or change buses to travel around to Barking Road. Believe me that wouldn't be popular, lots of older passengers / people with shopping who would be disadvantaged. I think the current proposed changes to the 474 are better than the 15 despite it giving another East Ham link,
I am really struggling to see what benefit the 15 would bring to Prince Regent especially with the Elizabeth Line opening soon. I can't see a big demand of passengers from here heading towards Aldgate.
Where did the 241 come into this? All I said was the 15 suggested plan could work in the sense that the current vehicles would not be used. I also said I'd leave the other buses exactly as it currently runs. That was more the 147 and 474. I may have missed the 241. As for the Elizabeth line link there may be some people who may not want to use the train and are possibly comfortable with buses. Granted the Barking Road Link wouldn't be there however it may just give new links bus wise. Again this doesn't mean this could happen. This was my intake on this. |
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Post by nad1152597 on Aug 16, 2021 17:43:29 GMT
So you would have the 15,147 and 241 all running via Keir Hardie or the 241 to Pontoon Dock? If so I'm repeating my self but you are then expecting passengers to either walk from Canning Town station or change buses to travel around to Barking Road. Believe me that wouldn't be popular, lots of older passengers / people with shopping who would be disadvantaged. I think the current proposed changes to the 474 are better than the 15 despite it giving another East Ham link,
I am really struggling to see what benefit the 15 would bring to Prince Regent especially with the Elizabeth Line opening soon. I can't see a big demand of passengers from here heading towards Aldgate.
Where did the 241 come into this? All I said was the 15 suggested plan could work in the sense that the current vehicles would not be used. I also said I'd leave the other buses exactly as it currently runs. That was more the 147 and 474. I may have missed the 241. As for the Elizabeth line link there may be some people who may not want to use the train and are possibly comfortable with buses. Granted the Barking Road Link wouldn't be there however it may just give new links bus wise. Again this doesn't mean this could happen. This was my intake on this. I should have mentioned the 241 in these changes in my earlier post. Apologies for not doing so. The 241 would run to Royal Wharf so I don't think it would serve Keir Hardie anymore? Whilst the Barking Road shops link is important I would extend the 147 to the Barking Road stand to maintain links. If stand space is limited the 474 can terminate at Canning Town. I still think the 15 idea has potential. Two routes would serve Keir Hardie (15 & 147). I didn't think that far ahead about where the LT's would go. I am sure there are other South London routes that can go LT. I am clueless but maybe the 436's WHV's? I am happy with the 474 change by TFL. This is a fantasy thread so these changes are not happening anyway. Feedback is welcome but I think a certain member is taking things far too seriously. Criticising every single thing in a harsh manner isn't exactly what I need to keep reading. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 16, 2021 18:17:53 GMT
Where did the 241 come into this? All I said was the 15 suggested plan could work in the sense that the current vehicles would not be used. I also said I'd leave the other buses exactly as it currently runs. That was more the 147 and 474. I may have missed the 241. As for the Elizabeth line link there may be some people who may not want to use the train and are possibly comfortable with buses. Granted the Barking Road Link wouldn't be there however it may just give new links bus wise. Again this doesn't mean this could happen. This was my intake on this. I should have mentioned the 241 in these changes in my earlier post. Apologies for not doing so. The 241 would run to Royal Wharf so I don't think it would serve Keir Hardie anymore? Whilst the Barking Road shops link is important I would extend the 147 to the Barking Road stand to maintain links. If stand space is limited the 474 can terminate at Canning Town. I still think the 15 idea has potential. Two routes would serve Keir Hardie (15 & 147). I didn't think that far ahead about where the LT's would go. I am sure there are other South London routes that can go LT. I am clueless but maybe the 436's WHV's? I am happy with the 474 change by TFL. This is a fantasy thread so these changes are not happening anyway. Feedback is welcome but I think a certain member is taking things far too seriously. Criticising every single thing in a harsh manner isn't exactly what I need to keep reading. I think both Keir Hardie and areas like Pontoon Dock deserve a link round to Barking Road don't get me wrong but from my limited experience in the area I would question whether the 147 should be extended given it encounters some very nasty congestion in some areas, and I know the 474 can encounter some too however it encounters less from my experiences so I'd be quite careful regarding the 147 as Barking Road can sometimes have traffic problems. As for the 241, I understand the logic as to why it might've been cutback, for the endless numbers of times it's had to give up the Keir Hardie section to the 541 I imagine some custom has been lost round there, perhaps if costs really came into the equation - like has been suggested here before a 388 extension down to Custom House and a possible cutback to Liverpool Street? This is providing the 241 cutback were to go ahead but I would be happy to see the 241 remain as is. |
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