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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 22, 2022 19:16:15 GMT
Some alternative ideas for the 21/271 consultation. 271- withdrawn 21- withdrawn between Newington Green and Moorgate, Finsbury Square. 43- restructured to operate between Friern Barnet and Moorgate, Finsbury Circus (pick up Moorgate Station) via existing 271 route between Archway and Moorgate. 4- rerouted at Angel to London Bridge via existing 43 route between Angel and London Bridge. 40- rerouted at Blackfriars to Highbury Barn via existing 4 route between Blackfriars and Highbury Barn. 263- rerouted at Highbury Corner to Dalston Junction via route 30. A lot of links are lost with this proposal.
I know there is always the doom and gloom about how use is scarce on public transport in the centre of town, but the 43 can get really get packed north of Old Street. Having the service run via Angel really generates a lot of demand even with the volume of buses down Upper Street. And that's not to say it doesn't get busy into London Bridge like with the 141. Would the 4 be an okay replacement? Not too sure because there is quite a lot of demand on the Holloway Road for Angel/Old Street even with the option of Great Northern from Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park. The 4 for some reason always seems to be blinded for St Paul's whenever I see it at Archway Station, but to me the section south of St Paul's really hasn't picked up since it's rerouting there, now with stand space from the 242 cutback you could perhaps terminate the 4 at St Paul's or even at Museum of London where the 100 stood between 2017 and 2019. It's really a far cry from the loads it got when it went to Waterloo however the section north of St Paul's through Barbican and Angel has remained resilient throughout the pandemic and its not uncommon to see 4s/19s up Highbury Grove full, with empty 263s rolling past  .
I can see what TFL were thinking re the 271, a reduction in buses between Holloway and Archway (even though the route they proposed to cut was one of most used between the two, if I had to say one I'd possibly say the 17 is the least used even though it provides links into Barnsbury and has decent demand in the peak...perhaps a peak time extension would be better although it would go against standardisation.
The other option would've been to have perhaps done a review of the 17 with it being cutback to somewhere (perhaps King's Cross and maybe have something like the 21 extended over to King's Cross), and get extended from Archway up to Barnet Hospital via the current 263 with perhaps the 277 extended to Holloway to maintain capacity and link Holloway and Dalston and the 263 withdrawn. The 17 up through Finchley is what the 263 replaced so perhaps I'd support it for nostalgia  but practically probably not. Plus there is high demand on the 263 for Highbury north of Highgate of which would be lost and the rerouting of the 277 round Isle of Dogs would probably make the service unworkable. |
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Post by YX10FFN on Jan 22, 2022 19:55:43 GMT
Some alternative ideas for the 21/271 consultation. 271- withdrawn 21- withdrawn between Newington Green and Moorgate, Finsbury Square. 43- restructured to operate between Friern Barnet and Moorgate, Finsbury Circus (pick up Moorgate Station) via existing 271 route between Archway and Moorgate. 4- rerouted at Angel to London Bridge via existing 43 route between Angel and London Bridge. 40- rerouted at Blackfriars to Highbury Barn via existing 4 route between Blackfriars and Highbury Barn. 263- rerouted at Highbury Corner to Dalston Junction via route 30. A lot of links are lost with this proposal.
I know there is always the doom and gloom about how use is scarce on public transport in the centre of town, but the 43 can get really get packed north of Old Street. Having the service run via Angel really generates a lot of demand even with the volume of buses down Upper Street. And that's not to say it doesn't get busy into London Bridge like with the 141. Would the 4 be an okay replacement? Not too sure because there is quite a lot of demand on the Holloway Road for Angel/Old Street even with the option of Great Northern from Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park. The 4 for some reason always seems to be blinded for St Paul's whenever I see it at Archway Station, but to me the section south of St Paul's really hasn't picked up since it's rerouting there, now with stand space from the 242 cutback you could perhaps terminate the 4 at St Paul's or even at Museum of London where the 100 stood between 2017 and 2019. It's really a far cry from the loads it got when it went to Waterloo however the section north of St Paul's through Barbican and Angel has remained resilient throughout the pandemic and its not uncommon to see 4s/19s up Highbury Grove full, with empty 263s rolling past .
I can see what TFL were thinking re the 271, a reduction in buses between Holloway and Archway (even though the route they proposed to cut was one of most used between the two, if I had to say one I'd possibly say the 17 is the least used even though it provides links into Barnsbury and has decent demand in the peak...perhaps a peak time extension would be better although it would go against standardisation.
The other option would've been to have perhaps done a review of the 17 with it being cutback to somewhere (perhaps King's Cross and maybe have something like the 21 extended over to King's Cross), and get extended from Archway up to Barnet Hospital via the current 263 with perhaps the 277 extended to Holloway to maintain capacity and link Holloway and Dalston and the 263 withdrawn. The 17 up through Finchley is what the 263 replaced so perhaps I'd support it for nostalgia but practically probably not. Plus there is high demand on the 263 for Highbury north of Highgate of which would be lost and the rerouting of the 277 round Isle of Dogs would probably make the service unworkable. Appreciate your insight. In terms of Holloway Road, the 153 maintains the link with Angel and the 43 would maintain the link with Old Street. The 4 would definitely receive a frequency increase if it were rerouted to London Bridge, I totally accept your point regarding the 43's loads from the City. Additionally, having the 43 start at Moorgate Station is important as it's a lot more accessible to offices than Finsbury Square. The 4 would carry the bulk of the Islington/Highbury commuters from the City, whereas longer distance commuters on the 43 see a reduction in journey time and potentially better reliability. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 22, 2022 20:47:56 GMT
A lot of links are lost with this proposal.
I know there is always the doom and gloom about how use is scarce on public transport in the centre of town, but the 43 can get really get packed north of Old Street. Having the service run via Angel really generates a lot of demand even with the volume of buses down Upper Street. And that's not to say it doesn't get busy into London Bridge like with the 141. Would the 4 be an okay replacement? Not too sure because there is quite a lot of demand on the Holloway Road for Angel/Old Street even with the option of Great Northern from Highbury & Islington and Drayton Park. The 4 for some reason always seems to be blinded for St Paul's whenever I see it at Archway Station, but to me the section south of St Paul's really hasn't picked up since it's rerouting there, now with stand space from the 242 cutback you could perhaps terminate the 4 at St Paul's or even at Museum of London where the 100 stood between 2017 and 2019. It's really a far cry from the loads it got when it went to Waterloo however the section north of St Paul's through Barbican and Angel has remained resilient throughout the pandemic and its not uncommon to see 4s/19s up Highbury Grove full, with empty 263s rolling past .
I can see what TFL were thinking re the 271, a reduction in buses between Holloway and Archway (even though the route they proposed to cut was one of most used between the two, if I had to say one I'd possibly say the 17 is the least used even though it provides links into Barnsbury and has decent demand in the peak...perhaps a peak time extension would be better although it would go against standardisation.
The other option would've been to have perhaps done a review of the 17 with it being cutback to somewhere (perhaps King's Cross and maybe have something like the 21 extended over to King's Cross), and get extended from Archway up to Barnet Hospital via the current 263 with perhaps the 277 extended to Holloway to maintain capacity and link Holloway and Dalston and the 263 withdrawn. The 17 up through Finchley is what the 263 replaced so perhaps I'd support it for nostalgia but practically probably not. Plus there is high demand on the 263 for Highbury north of Highgate of which would be lost and the rerouting of the 277 round Isle of Dogs would probably make the service unworkable. Appreciate your insight. In terms of Holloway Road, the 153 maintains the link with Angel and the 43 would maintain the link with Old Street. The 4 would definitely receive a frequency increase if it were rerouted to London Bridge, I totally accept your point regarding the 43's loads from the City. Additionally, having the 43 start at Moorgate Station is important as it's a lot more accessible to offices than Finsbury Square. The 4 would carry the bulk of the Islington/Highbury commuters from the City, whereas longer distance commuters on the 43 see a reduction in journey time and potentially better reliability. I mean the 43 could very well be restructured, perhaps it swap termini with the 271 at Highgate Village as a Highgate Village to London Bridge route via Angel & perhaps the 43 run Friern Barnet to Moorgate F Square via Essex Road. Although the 43 does have long distance commuters from Muswell Hill to beyond Moorgate. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 23, 2022 0:12:26 GMT
Some alternative ideas for the 21/271 consultation. 271- withdrawn 21- withdrawn between Newington Green and Moorgate, Finsbury Square. 43- restructured to operate between Friern Barnet and Moorgate, Finsbury Circus (pick up Moorgate Station) via existing 271 route between Archway and Moorgate. 4- rerouted at Angel to London Bridge via existing 43 route between Angel and London Bridge. 40- rerouted at Blackfriars to Highbury Barn via existing 4 route between Blackfriars and Highbury Barn. 263- rerouted at Highbury Corner to Dalston Junction via route 30. Interesting ideas, it would speed the 43 up a bit although the rerouting of such a long standing route might take some getting used to. It would certainly give the 40 a bit more purpose, the Clerkenwell Green section is pretty dead and the 263 to Dalston would be useful. |
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 23, 2022 10:46:16 GMT
My alternative changes to the 1,168 and 188 consultation
1 withdrawn between Holburn and Aldwych then extend to Greenwich Cutty Sark
27 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 168
188 extend to Camden Town via 168 This keep Camden Town to Elephant and Castle link
168 withdrawn replace by 27 and 188
This changes keep route 1 but still withdrawn 168
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 23, 2022 12:41:58 GMT
My alternative changes to the 1,168 and 188 consultation 1 withdrawn between Holburn and Aldwych then extend to Greenwich Cutty Sark 27 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 168 188 extend to Camden Town via 168 This keep Camden Town to Elephant and Castle link 168 withdrawn replace by 27 and 188 This changes keep route 1 but still withdrawn 168 Fantasy I know, but the 1 really can’t terminate at Greenwich Cutty Sark - there’s no room, and I believe the plan to evict all the currently terminating Greenwich routes is still on, which will pile further pressure on terminating space in the area. If you are keeping the 188 there is no reason to extend the 1 to Greenwich. Actually, there’s also no need to cut the 1 back to Aldwych either under these plans - only the 27 and 188 plans are relevant here. And the 188 plan looks dicey at best. |
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Post by britishguy54 on Jan 24, 2022 9:35:16 GMT
WARNING: FANTASY AND UNREALISM INCOMING
Changes:
175 - No longer terminates at New Road. Now serves Dagenham Dock and Dagenham ASDA.
287 - No longer serves A13/Ripple Road. Now serves Maplestead/Goresbrook Road. New slip road created.
New routes:
374 - Serves CEME to Purfleet, via Rainham and Wennington.
EL4 - Serves Barking Riverside to Romford via Becontree and Crowlands.
EDIT: Sorry for the wording. What I mean is let the EL4 follow the 173 from Becontree Heath, then the 86 to Romford eastbound.
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Post by passingfordbridgeboy on Jan 25, 2022 9:11:33 GMT
WARNING: FANTASY AND UNREALISM INCOMING Changes: 175 - No longer terminates at New Road. Now serves Dagenham Dock and Dagenham ASDA. 287 - No longer serves A13/Ripple Road. Now serves Maplestead/Goresbrook Road. New slip road created. New routes: 374 - Serves CEME to Purfleet, via Rainham and Wennington. EL4 - Serves Barking Riverside to Romford via Becontree and Crowlands. Crowlands and Crow Lane is an interesting situation, it's a long road but you can only access it by Jutsams Lane or at the Oldchurch end. I'd withdraw 499 from Crow Lane, and have it run to Heath Park Estate the same way it goes from the estate to Romford ie a two way service via Rush Green. As for Crow Lane I'd give that a two way service by extending a Romford Station terminating route, probably 296, down Crow Lane and build a stand so it terminates in Crow Lane and returns the same way. Crow Lane is quite wide in parts ,so having a little roundabout built for turning buses shouldn't be a problem. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 25, 2022 9:28:04 GMT
WARNING: FANTASY AND UNREALISM INCOMING Changes: 175 - No longer terminates at New Road. Now serves Dagenham Dock and Dagenham ASDA. 287 - No longer serves A13/Ripple Road. Now serves Maplestead/Goresbrook Road. New slip road created. New routes: 374 - Serves CEME to Purfleet, via Rainham and Wennington. EL4 - Serves Barking Riverside to Romford via Becontree and Crowlands. The 374 is unlikely to get off the ground as a TfL route because it is largely over the Greater London boundary. Perhaps an operator like EnsignBus might operate a commercial or supported route between CEME and Thurrock, tied to CEME shift requirements? |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 25, 2022 10:15:35 GMT
WARNING: FANTASY AND UNREALISM INCOMING Changes: 175 - No longer terminates at New Road. Now serves Dagenham Dock and Dagenham ASDA. 287 - No longer serves A13/Ripple Road. Now serves Maplestead/Goresbrook Road. New slip road created. New routes: 374 - Serves CEME to Purfleet, via Rainham and Wennington. EL4 - Serves Barking Riverside to Romford via Becontree and Crowlands. Crowlands and Crow Lane is an interesting situation, it's a long road but you can only access it by Jutsams Lane or at the Oldchurch end. I'd withdraw 499 from Crow Lane, and have it run to Heath Park Estate the same way it goes from the estate to Romford ie a two way service via Rush Green. As for Crow Lane I'd give that a two way service by extending a Romford Station terminating route, probably 296, down Crow Lane and build a stand so it terminates in Crow Lane and returns the same way. Crow Lane is quite wide in parts ,so having a little roundabout built for turning buses shouldn't be a problem. I cannot see that happening at all. What part is big enough to do a roundabout that buses can turn without taking up land. That is a pie in the sky dream, I really do not think TfL would even bother with such a fantasy when they are broke. |
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Post by passingfordbridgeboy on Jan 25, 2022 11:49:14 GMT
Crowlands and Crow Lane is an interesting situation, it's a long road but you can only access it by Jutsams Lane or at the Oldchurch end. I'd withdraw 499 from Crow Lane, and have it run to Heath Park Estate the same way it goes from the estate to Romford ie a two way service via Rush Green. As for Crow Lane I'd give that a two way service by extending a Romford Station terminating route, probably 296, down Crow Lane and build a stand so it terminates in Crow Lane and returns the same way. Crow Lane is quite wide in parts ,so having a little roundabout built for turning buses shouldn't be a problem. I cannot see that happening at all. What part is big enough to do a roundabout that buses can turn without taking up land. That is a pie in the sky dream, I really do not think TfL would even bother with such a fantasy when they are broke. This is fun, Live Reporting: just heading into Crow Lane now on the 499. Let's see if there's room for a roundabout. And....and...er no! Dang it you're right. There's a bit of grassy wasteland on the right about 100 yards beyond Jutsams Lane, or does someone own that? |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 26, 2022 0:16:04 GMT
I cannot see that happening at all. What part is big enough to do a roundabout that buses can turn without taking up land. That is a pie in the sky dream, I really do not think TfL would even bother with such a fantasy when they are broke. This is fun, Live Reporting: just heading into Crow Lane now on the 499. Let's see if there's room for a roundabout. And....and...er no! Dang it you're right. There's a bit of grassy wasteland on the right about 100 yards beyond Jutsams Lane, or does someone own that? I believe it is owned by the council. |
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Post by britishguy54 on Jan 27, 2022 21:11:47 GMT
WARNING: FANTASY AND UNREALISM INCOMING Changes: 175 - No longer terminates at New Road. Now serves Dagenham Dock and Dagenham ASDA. 287 - No longer serves A13/Ripple Road. Now serves Maplestead/Goresbrook Road. New slip road created. New routes: 374 - Serves CEME to Purfleet, via Rainham and Wennington. EL4 - Serves Barking Riverside to Romford via Becontree and Crowlands. The 374 is unlikely to get off the ground as a TfL route because it is largely over the Greater London boundary. Perhaps an operator like EnsignBus might operate a commercial or supported route between CEME and Thurrock, tied to CEME shift requirements? I don’t mean via Crow Lane. So say you’re at Morris Road, on Wood Lane. Onto Whalebone Lane South w/173, then turn right onto the High Road, with the 86/N86. |
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Post by buspete on Jan 27, 2022 22:43:17 GMT
Extend it to Bluewater as well I did think about that, but I concluded that I don’t think it needs to do that : plenty of express 96s around to go fast to Bluewater, plus it means X25 has less traffic to deal with. Extention to Bluewater via Fasttrack would be a good one. Also very limited stops, could do stopping at St Mary’s Cray and Foots Cray. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 27, 2022 23:01:09 GMT
I did think about that, but I concluded that I don’t think it needs to do that : plenty of express 96s around to go fast to Bluewater, plus it means X25 has less traffic to deal with. Extention to Bluewater via Fasttrack would be a good one. Also very limited stops, could do stopping at St Mary’s Cray and Foots Cray. As I said above : no point in heading to Bluewater as plenty of other buses, TfL and otherwise, already do that run. My proposal already stops at the 51 stops down the hill from St Mary Cray station so that will suffice there. Pitching the X25 through Foots Cray adds time and not sure there’s a whole lot of extra pax there - they can connect to X25 by using the frequent 51. Too many stops negate the express nature of such a service - look at the X26, its stops are very limited. |
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but practically probably not. Plus there is high demand on the 263 for Highbury north of Highgate of which would be lost and the rerouting of the 277 round Isle of Dogs would probably make the service unworkable.
