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Post by vjaska on Jul 24, 2023 1:03:33 GMT
Having travelled on the SL8 recently, I do think TfL should consider a later addition to the Superloop. It is an alignment that is often suggested, an express route between Canning Town and Romford via the Barking Road (A124 Road). Acting as the antipode of the SL8 in West London. - Canning Town Bus Station - Rathbone Market - Plaistow / Prince Regent Lane - Upton Park / Green Street - High Street North (East) / Newham Town Hall (West) - Burges Road - Barking Town Centre - Barking Station - Barking Bus Garage (East) / Faircross (West) - Lodge Avenue (West) / Becontree Avenue (East) - Martins Corner / Valence Avenue - Winmill Road (East) / Boxall Road (West) - Morris Road - Becontree Heath Leisure Centre - Rush Green Road / Dagenham Road (West) / Dagenham Road (East) - Queen’s Hospital - Romford Station I also agree and is supportive for a new express service connecting Barking and Romford. However, routing via Barking Road itself lacks the infastructure to perform effecient overtaking for faster journeys. If we want to reach Canning Town fast and quickly then it will have to take the A13 from Barking, even this road can often encounter problems for a route at times. I could maybe find it more useful if it extended to Canary Wharf or North Greenwich via the Silvertown Tunnel. Doesn't Barking Road have bus lanes along a large portion of it? That alone would make it more attractive than the bottleneck that the A13 can be sometimes?
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Post by COBO on Jul 27, 2023 15:02:04 GMT
SL6: withdrawn SL7: extended from West Croydon to Russell Square via SL6. Linking Waterloo with Heathrow and Kingston.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 28, 2023 13:17:59 GMT
SL6: withdrawn SL7: extended from West Croydon to Russell Square via SL6. Linking Waterloo with Heathrow and Kingston. I know this is fantasy but no one in their right mind would go from Waterloo to Kingston via Croydon! Think about the time wasted! At this point you might as well get the train
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Post by COBO on Jul 28, 2023 13:25:23 GMT
SL6: withdrawn SL7: extended from West Croydon to Russell Square via SL6. Linking Waterloo with Heathrow and Kingston. I know this is fantasy but no one in their right mind would go from Waterloo to Kingston via Croydon! Think about the time wasted! At this point you might as well get the train But some people in their right mind would.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 28, 2023 13:30:54 GMT
I know this is fantasy but no one in their right mind would go from Waterloo to Kingston via Croydon! Think about the time wasted! At this point you might as well get the train But some people in their right mind would. Like who? Only if you have time to waste, I can imagine end to end that would be at least 3 hours.
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Post by COBO on Jul 28, 2023 13:32:00 GMT
But some people in their right mind would. Like who? Only if you have time to waste, I can imagine end to end that would be at least 3 hours. Like people who don’t want to go via train or can’t afford it. Please remember that this is fantasy.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2023 14:39:46 GMT
Like who? Only if you have time to waste, I can imagine end to end that would be at least 3 hours. Like people who don’t want to go via train or can’t afford it. Please remember that this is fantasy. It is indeed fantasy which is why I initially didn't comment but I find it hard to believe anyone will switch between the X26 & X68 currently or under Superloop conditions simply because the X68 is designed for a particular niche that gives no benefit to anyone from the X26 corridor. Kingston to Central London, for example, via the 85 and then 14 and whatever to Waterloo would probably not be much different when factoring in journey time, and the much more frequent routes the 85, 14 and final route would be in comparison and the fact you have a wider window to use them in compared to the X68. Heathrow has the tube which isn't too costly and those who don't like the tube probably wouldn't travel long distance or be ok with paying extra for the Elizabeth line
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Post by Unorm on Jul 28, 2023 18:46:26 GMT
An inspiration and also releasing my frustration of X68/SL6 saga in a fantasy positive idea.
196: Elephant & Castle - West Norwood* (every 12 M-Sat as now, increased to 15 Sundays, unchanged 20 evenings) X68/SL6: Russell Square to Waterloo (all stops), then Elephant & Castle, then Brixton, then Tulse Hill, West Norwood to Norwood Junction (all stops), non-stop to Whitehorse Road, all stops there to West Croydon (every 10 M-Sat, 15 Sunday/evenings).
*Since the only 'available' stand is Rosendale, I'd have it go further to Vincennes Estate. Essentially moving a stand utilised by parked cars into a stand actually usable by buses. 201: rerouted via Norwood Road instead of Croxted Road 322: rerouted via Croxted Road and Thurlow Park Road instead of Norwood Road. Rerouted via Norwood High Street and full length of Gipsy Road.
Keeping 196's local links south of Brixton whilst also having X68 stop at Brixton. The by-product of speeding up journeys between Brixton and Upper/South Norwood. Frequency increase on X68(SL6) to cater for existing commuter traffic from Central combined with people spawning at Brixton from 196. Selfishly I give myself a capacity increase and a mostly reliable service, since 322 isn't reliable full stop, whilst 196 is mostly reliable. The 201 change allows it to be double deck.
I have flirted with the idea of fusing amalgamating 468/X68 or 68/X68 in some capacity but What prevents me from not putting this as a realistic suggestion is X68(SL6)'s parallel of 415 as a result which would have only one link not paralleled (ignoring local stops). Handing the Old Kent Road bit to 196 which is slower isn't ideal either, even for my fantasy.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 1, 2023 17:07:14 GMT
Fantasy Newham changes
238 - extended from Stratford to Mile End. I think that this route has a potential for a western extension. Currently from Bow there isn't a link towards Upton Park, and it would also provide Plashlet Road a link beyond Stratford
474 - reverted back to its old routing through Silvertown. I think that the previous routing was better than the current, as Silvertown (parts of it) would regain its link to London City Airport and Beckton
330 - withdrawn between Canning Town and Pontoon Dock. Would be rerouted to Crossharbour Asda via the 115 to Poplar then the D8 to Crossharbour. I think that a link from Canary Wharf/IoD to Canning Town and Barking Road would be well used. The 330 would still serve the station in my proposal
D8 - withdrawn between Crossharbour and Westferry Circus due to stand space.
30 - would add a double run to Homerton Hospital. Because its strange that Dalston Lane (the bit where its only with the 56) and Wick Road have no link to Homerton Hospital. Would also improve hospital links in the area.
300 - rerouted between Custom House and Canning Town via the 474. Would then be extended to Stratford via Manor Road then the 276. Replaces the 474 and gives West Ham better links to the south of the borough. Would also return the link between Keir Hardie and Stratford (not sure how well used the 241 was end to end).
325 - would become a circular route, starting and ending at Beckton station. Extended from East Beckton to Beckton via the 366. Extended from Prince Regent to Beckton via the old 300 routing. Would bring back links lost when the 300 was rerouted, also provides new links to Gallions Reach shopping park, etc. The 325 number would be withdrawn, replaced by B1 (clockwise) and B2 (anticlockwise). B stands for Beckton
366 - frequency would drop from 6bph to 4bph Mon-Sat and from 4bph to 3bph Sun and evenings. The 325 between Barking and Beckton would duplicate the 366 hence the frequency decrease
376 - would also become a circular route, starting and ending at East Ham Newham Town Hall. The 376 number would be removed, and renumbered B3 (clockwise) and B4 (anticlockwise). The termini could be moved to Beckton if necessary.
304 - would be extended to Wanstead, to replace the 101.
101 - would be withdrawn, due to improvements/new links between East Ham and Beckton. I do feel that the 101 is now rendered mostly useless and a waste of resources considering nits lost its sole link to Gallions Reach from East Ham and you have the 474 on the majority of the route
104 - extended from Beckton to Gallions Reach shopping Park via the 262. To make stand space at Beckton and also to link Lonsdale Avenue to Gallions Reach shopping park. Frequency decrease to 5bph Mon-Sat and 4bph Suns and evenings (overall Beckton to Gallions Reach would lose 2bph in the peaks from the 104 and 2bph from the 366, but gains 5bph from the 325 (albeit via a different route than the 104, so those changes would even out the spread of routes between the two destinations)
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Post by COBO on Aug 1, 2023 17:11:51 GMT
Like people who don’t want to go via train or can’t afford it. Please remember that this is fantasy. It is indeed fantasy which is why I initially didn't comment but I find it hard to believe anyone will switch between the X26 & X68 currently or under Superloop conditions simply because the X68 is designed for a particular niche that gives no benefit to anyone from the X26 corridor. Kingston to Central London, for example, via the 85 and then 14 and whatever to Waterloo would probably not be much different when factoring in journey time, and the much more frequent routes the 85, 14 and final route would be in comparison and the fact you have a wider window to use them in compared to the X68. Heathrow has the tube which isn't too costly and those who don't like the tube probably wouldn't travel long distance or be ok with paying extra for the Elizabeth line Well it’s a fantasy 😂
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Post by WH241 on Aug 1, 2023 17:37:56 GMT
Fantasy Newham changes 238 - extended from Stratford to Mile End. I think that this route has a potential for a western extension. Currently from Bow there isn't a link towards Upton Park, and it would also provide Plashlet Road a link beyond Stratford 474 - reverted back to its old routing through Silvertown. I think that the previous routing was better than the current, as Silvertown (parts of it) would regain its link to London City Airport and Beckton 330 - withdrawn between Canning Town and Pontoon Dock. Would be rerouted to Crossharbour Asda via the 115 to Poplar then the D8 to Crossharbour. I think that a link from Canary Wharf/IoD to Canning Town and Barking Road would be well used. The 330 would still serve the station in my proposal D8 - withdrawn between Crossharbour and Westferry Circus due to stand space. 30 - would add a double run to Homerton Hospital. Because its strange that Dalston Lane (the bit where its only with the 56) and Wick Road have no link to Homerton Hospital. Would also improve hospital links in the area. 300 - rerouted between Custom House and Canning Town via the 474. Would then be extended to Stratford via Manor Road then the 276. Replaces the 474 and gives West Ham better links to the south of the borough. Would also return the link between Keir Hardie and Stratford (not sure how well used the 241 was end to end). 325 - would become a circular route, starting and ending at Beckton station. Extended from East Beckton to Beckton via the 366. Extended from Prince Regent to Beckton via the old 300 routing. Would bring back links lost when the 300 was rerouted, also provides new links to Gallions Reach shopping park, etc. The 325 number would be withdrawn, replaced by B1 (clockwise) and B2 (anticlockwise). B stands for Beckton 366 - frequency would drop from 6bph to 4bph Mon-Sat and from 4bph to 3bph Sun and evenings. The 325 between Barking and Beckton would duplicate the 366 hence the frequency decrease 376 - would also become a circular route, starting and ending at East Ham Newham Town Hall. The 376 number would be removed, and renumbered B3 (clockwise) and B4 (anticlockwise). The termini could be moved to Beckton if necessary. 304 - would be extended to Wanstead, to replace the 101. 101 - would be withdrawn, due to improvements/new links between East Ham and Beckton. I do feel that the 101 is now rendered mostly useless and a waste of resources considering nits lost its sole link to Gallions Reach from East Ham and you have the 474 on the majority of the route 104 - extended from Beckton to Gallions Reach shopping Park via the 262. To make stand space at Beckton and also to link Lonsdale Avenue to Gallions Reach shopping park. Frequency decrease to 5bph Mon-Sat and 4bph Suns and evenings (overall Beckton to Gallions Reach would lose 2bph in the peaks from the 104 and 2bph from the 366, but gains 5bph from the 325 (albeit via a different route than the 104, so those changes would even out the spread of routes between the two destinations) Can’t help but think these are very repetitive! I’ll bit anyway and reply: The 101 is needed to support the 304 and 474 along the very busy East Ham corridor so you can’t withdraw unless you increase the frequency on the other two routes. What makes you think they would reintroduce a route back to Gallions Reach after withdrawing the 101 back to Beckton station. . The 241 was well used locally from Canning Town to areas like Freemasons Road and New Barn Street it’s now just about the Stratford link. Thankfully this is fantasy and likely will never see the light of day. Sorry to be critical but these ideas on thread like this all just seem like change for changes sake. Edit: the 325 idea is madness and no need to replace the lost 300 section! Is was withdrawn along that section because the 376 was sufficient.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 1, 2023 17:43:14 GMT
Fantasy Newham changes 238 - extended from Stratford to Mile End. I think that this route has a potential for a western extension. Currently from Bow there isn't a link towards Upton Park, and it would also provide Plashlet Road a link beyond Stratford 474 - reverted back to its old routing through Silvertown. I think that the previous routing was better than the current, as Silvertown (parts of it) would regain its link to London City Airport and Beckton 330 - withdrawn between Canning Town and Pontoon Dock. Would be rerouted to Crossharbour Asda via the 115 to Poplar then the D8 to Crossharbour. I think that a link from Canary Wharf/IoD to Canning Town and Barking Road would be well used. The 330 would still serve the station in my proposal D8 - withdrawn between Crossharbour and Westferry Circus due to stand space. 30 - would add a double run to Homerton Hospital. Because its strange that Dalston Lane (the bit where its only with the 56) and Wick Road have no link to Homerton Hospital. Would also improve hospital links in the area. 300 - rerouted between Custom House and Canning Town via the 474. Would then be extended to Stratford via Manor Road then the 276. Replaces the 474 and gives West Ham better links to the south of the borough. Would also return the link between Keir Hardie and Stratford (not sure how well used the 241 was end to end). 325 - would become a circular route, starting and ending at Beckton station. Extended from East Beckton to Beckton via the 366. Extended from Prince Regent to Beckton via the old 300 routing. Would bring back links lost when the 300 was rerouted, also provides new links to Gallions Reach shopping park, etc. The 325 number would be withdrawn, replaced by B1 (clockwise) and B2 (anticlockwise). B stands for Beckton 366 - frequency would drop from 6bph to 4bph Mon-Sat and from 4bph to 3bph Sun and evenings. The 325 between Barking and Beckton would duplicate the 366 hence the frequency decrease 376 - would also become a circular route, starting and ending at East Ham Newham Town Hall. The 376 number would be removed, and renumbered B3 (clockwise) and B4 (anticlockwise). The termini could be moved to Beckton if necessary. 304 - would be extended to Wanstead, to replace the 101. 101 - would be withdrawn, due to improvements/new links between East Ham and Beckton. I do feel that the 101 is now rendered mostly useless and a waste of resources considering nits lost its sole link to Gallions Reach from East Ham and you have the 474 on the majority of the route 104 - extended from Beckton to Gallions Reach shopping Park via the 262. To make stand space at Beckton and also to link Lonsdale Avenue to Gallions Reach shopping park. Frequency decrease to 5bph Mon-Sat and 4bph Suns and evenings (overall Beckton to Gallions Reach would lose 2bph in the peaks from the 104 and 2bph from the 366, but gains 5bph from the 325 (albeit via a different route than the 104, so those changes would even out the spread of routes between the two destinations) Can’t help but think these are very repetitive! I’ll bit anyway and reply: The 101 is needed to support the 304 and 474 along the very busy East Ham corridor so you can’t withdraw unless you increase the frequency on the other two routes. What makes you think they would reintroduce a route back to Gallions Reach after withdrawing the 101 back to Beckton station. . The 241 was well used locally from Canning Town to areas like Freemasons Road and New Barn Street it’s now just about the Stratford link. Thankfully this is fantasy and likely will never see the light of day. Sorry to be critical but these ideas on thread like this all just seem like change for changes sake. Please remember that this is the fantasy thread so ideas that aren't realistic are tolerated. As for the 101/104 to Gallions Reach, obviously tfl wouldn't turn back on their decision however the idea is more to benefit those who currently don't have a link to Gallions Reach. Yes there is a shopping centre at Stratford but Gallions Reach offers a suitable alternative
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 1, 2023 17:51:05 GMT
Having travelled on the SL8 recently, I do think TfL should consider a later addition to the Superloop. It is an alignment that is often suggested, an express route between Canning Town and Romford via the Barking Road (A124 Road). Acting as the antipode of the SL8 in West London. - Canning Town Bus Station - Rathbone Market - Plaistow / Prince Regent Lane - Upton Park / Green Street - High Street North (East) / Newham Town Hall (West) - Burges Road - Barking Town Centre - Barking Station - Barking Bus Garage (East) / Faircross (West) - Lodge Avenue (West) / Becontree Avenue (East) - Martins Corner / Valence Avenue - Winmill Road (East) / Boxall Road (West) - Morris Road - Becontree Heath Leisure Centre - Rush Green Road / Dagenham Road (West) / Dagenham Road (East) - Queen’s Hospital - Romford Station There's some merit in this (the 5 doesn't really duplicate a rail route in the way the 86 does), but the 5 would probably be reduced to every 10 minutes to provide the resources.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 1, 2023 21:40:58 GMT
An inspiration and also releasing my frustration of X68/SL6 saga in a fantasy positive idea. 196: Elephant & Castle - West Norwood* (every 12 M-Sat as now, increased to 15 Sundays, unchanged 20 evenings) X68/SL6: Russell Square to Waterloo (all stops), then Elephant & Castle, then Brixton, then Tulse Hill, West Norwood to Norwood Junction (all stops), non-stop to Whitehorse Road, all stops there to West Croydon (every 10 M-Sat, 15 Sunday/evenings). *Since the only 'available' stand is Rosendale, I'd have it go further to Vincennes Estate. Essentially moving a stand utilised by parked cars into a stand actually usable by buses. 201: rerouted via Norwood Road instead of Croxted Road 322: rerouted via Croxted Road and Thurlow Park Road instead of Norwood Road. Rerouted via Norwood High Street and full length of Gipsy Road. Keeping 196's local links south of Brixton whilst also having X68 stop at Brixton. The by-product of speeding up journeys between Brixton and Upper/South Norwood. Frequency increase on X68(SL6) to cater for existing commuter traffic from Central combined with people spawning at Brixton from 196. Selfishly I give myself a capacity increase and a mostly reliable service, since 322 isn't reliable full stop, whilst 196 is mostly reliable. The 201 change allows it to be double deck. I have flirted with the idea of fusing amalgamating 468/X68 or 68/X68 in some capacity but What prevents me from not putting this as a realistic suggestion is X68(SL6)'s parallel of 415 as a result which would have only one link not paralleled (ignoring local stops). Handing the Old Kent Road bit to 196 which is slower isn't ideal either, even for my fantasy. I actually think the 201 & 322 swap between Tulse Hill & Herne Hill is a really good idea and something I've suggested previously in a realistic capacity - it cuts the 201's running time down by removing the quietest section of the route and giving it to the 322 which uses single door buses and doesn't hit the same traffic hotspots the 201 does. I like the 322 idea of running along Gipsy Road instead but, and I know it's fantasy, I'd have the 315 rather than the 196 replace it as the 315 can still serve the hail and ride section before taking over the 450's Kingswood Drive & Fountain Drive section and standing at Crystal Palace with the 450 running along the full length of Crystal Palace Park Parade and onto to Westwood Hill
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Post by Unorm on Aug 1, 2023 22:40:36 GMT
An inspiration and also releasing my frustration of X68/SL6 saga in a fantasy positive idea. 196: Elephant & Castle - West Norwood* (every 12 M-Sat as now, increased to 15 Sundays, unchanged 20 evenings) X68/SL6: Russell Square to Waterloo (all stops), then Elephant & Castle, then Brixton, then Tulse Hill, West Norwood to Norwood Junction (all stops), non-stop to Whitehorse Road, all stops there to West Croydon (every 10 M-Sat, 15 Sunday/evenings). *Since the only 'available' stand is Rosendale, I'd have it go further to Vincennes Estate. Essentially moving a stand utilised by parked cars into a stand actually usable by buses. 201: rerouted via Norwood Road instead of Croxted Road 322: rerouted via Croxted Road and Thurlow Park Road instead of Norwood Road. Rerouted via Norwood High Street and full length of Gipsy Road. Keeping 196's local links south of Brixton whilst also having X68 stop at Brixton. The by-product of speeding up journeys between Brixton and Upper/South Norwood. Frequency increase on X68(SL6) to cater for existing commuter traffic from Central combined with people spawning at Brixton from 196. Selfishly I give myself a capacity increase and a mostly reliable service, since 322 isn't reliable full stop, whilst 196 is mostly reliable. The 201 change allows it to be double deck. I have flirted with the idea of fusing amalgamating 468/X68 or 68/X68 in some capacity but What prevents me from not putting this as a realistic suggestion is X68(SL6)'s parallel of 415 as a result which would have only one link not paralleled (ignoring local stops). Handing the Old Kent Road bit to 196 which is slower isn't ideal either, even for my fantasy. I actually think the 201 & 322 swap between Tulse Hill & Herne Hill is a really good idea and something I've suggested previously in a realistic capacity - it cuts the 201's running time down by removing the quietest section of the route and giving it to the 322 which uses single door buses and doesn't hit the same traffic hotspots the 201 does. I like the 322 idea of running along Gipsy Road instead but, and I know it's fantasy, I'd have the 315 rather than the 196 replace it as the 315 can still serve the hail and ride section before taking over the 450's Kingswood Drive & Fountain Drive section and standing at Crystal Palace with the 450 running along the full length of Crystal Palace Park Parade and onto to Westwood Hill I would love 315 closer to me (not even selfishly, some do change from 315 to 322) with/without replacing a route, though the direct Brixton-Tulse Hill links and high-frequency is well used to replace. In a sense both 196/322 changes giving more aid to the 3 (than just West Dulwich-Herne Hill) which almost halved in peak frequency since two decades ago, with 322 decreasing and re-increased in frequency. I didn't state but was implying a conversion to fixed stops (definitely not jealous reading some of those consultations) which would conveniently also leave out the part of St Gothard Road that d*mned 322 to single doors contractually this long. I never found myself flirting with the idea of 196 for the job but whatever it is I fantasize: No single doors, especially on high frequency routes, more so if woeful to rely on or use.
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