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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2014 0:09:48 GMT
Oops - I missed the N prefix.  I would still question whether TfL needs to be running such long services beyond the London boundary even in a fantasy scenario. If we want a night service to Staines then run the 203 all night as it also touches bits of Heathrow Airport so would be valued by locals getting to work. People better than me have tried to run cross boundary night buses into Kent and Herts in the past and failed. There doesn't seem to be any renewed appetite to do so even with many operators having environmentally compliant buses. Interestingly Arriva have yet to run a 24 hour service on any of their strongest routes in Kent Thameside which is a slight surprise as that network does make money and people must go out on the town in places like Dartford, Chatham and Gravesend. It is worth noting that Ensign tried and failed in their bid to run a commercially viable night service over the water in Thurrock - their N73 was axed earlier in the year. The operating area there is smaller and a little more thinly spread but otherwise very similar, certainly demographically and in terms of employment patterns (and a lot of shift work and silly early starts) and leisure pursuits (Grays has a nightlife scene, though the less said about that the better). With that said, Ensign was ekeing an overnight service out of a route running on a 20 minute daytime frequency - many of Arriva's routes around Dartford and Gravesend are considerably more frequent (albeit single deck vs Ensign's tendency towards DDs). The cross-border commercial ventures I'm thinking of are London Central's weekend N60, running from Watford down to Baker Street and the N80/N82 between Baker Street and Gillingham; each ran about every two hours IIRC. The N60 went at the beginning of 2001 with the N80/82 going in May 2002 - through the wayback machine I've dredged up the timetables for them - enjoy web.archive.org/web/20010127194200/http://www.londoncentral.com/nightbus/index.htmI'm guessing the N80/N82 was a replacement for the non commercial N81 which ran from Trafalgar Square to Gillingham under London Central? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 8:22:58 GMT
Oops - I missed the N prefix. I would still question whether TfL needs to be running such long services beyond the London boundary even in a fantasy scenario. If we want a night service to Staines then run the 203 all night as it also touches bits of Heathrow Airport so would be valued by locals getting to work. People better than me have tried to run cross boundary night buses into Kent and Herts in the past and failed. There doesn't seem to be any renewed appetite to do so even with many operators having environmentally compliant buses. Interestingly Arriva have yet to run a 24 hour service on any of their strongest routes in Kent Thameside which is a slight surprise as that network does make money and people must go out on the town in places like Dartford, Chatham and Gravesend. It is worth noting that Ensign tried and failed in their bid to run a commercially viable night service over the water in Thurrock - their N73 was axed earlier in the year. The operating area there is smaller and a little more thinly spread but otherwise very similar, certainly demographically and in terms of employment patterns (and a lot of shift work and silly early starts) and leisure pursuits (Grays has a nightlife scene, though the less said about that the better). With that said, Ensign was ekeing an overnight service out of a route running on a 20 minute daytime frequency - many of Arriva's routes around Dartford and Gravesend are considerably more frequent (albeit single deck vs Ensign's tendency towards DDs). The cross-border commercial ventures I'm thinking of are London Central's weekend N60, running from Watford down to Baker Street and the N80/N82 between Baker Street and Gillingham; each ran about every two hours IIRC. The N60 went at the beginning of 2001 with the N80/82 going in May 2002 - through the wayback machine I've dredged up the timetables for them - enjoy web.archive.org/web/20010127194200/http://www.londoncentral.com/nightbus/index.htmIf Arriva could not get night routes in Liverpool to be viable, I doubt they will try in Kent. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 3, 2014 9:16:22 GMT
The 330 certainly has potential for a healthy extension, it's currently very short. I was thinking for it to be extended to Barkingside. This could be done via the 101 to Wanstead, along the 66 to Gants Hill, then up Cranbrook Road to Barkingside to stand with the 247, the stand itself could be expanded to accommodate more buses. This would open up new links between the areas of Canning Town/Upton Park/Forest Gate and Wanstead/Redbridge/Barkingside. At under 9 miles, it would be a healthy length too. Is there really any need for another bus from Gants Hill to Barkingside? I rarely see every bus running full on that section. I'd also question whether you really need a bus that duplicates the Central Line over such a long stretch given off peak tube PAYG fares are barely more expensive than the bus in the outer zones. As discussed before the really sensible extension for the 330 is to run it westwards to Canary Wharf given that is a major employment area and bus links from the A13 are non existent. Yes there would be a parallel with the tube and DLR but a direct bus would be likely to be popular. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 3, 2014 9:44:52 GMT
It is worth noting that Ensign tried and failed in their bid to run a commercially viable night service over the water in Thurrock - their N73 was axed earlier in the year. The operating area there is smaller and a little more thinly spread but otherwise very similar, certainly demographically and in terms of employment patterns (and a lot of shift work and silly early starts) and leisure pursuits (Grays has a nightlife scene, though the less said about that the better). With that said, Ensign was ekeing an overnight service out of a route running on a 20 minute daytime frequency - many of Arriva's routes around Dartford and Gravesend are considerably more frequent (albeit single deck vs Ensign's tendency towards DDs). The cross-border commercial ventures I'm thinking of are London Central's weekend N60, running from Watford down to Baker Street and the N80/N82 between Baker Street and Gillingham; each ran about every two hours IIRC. The N60 went at the beginning of 2001 with the N80/82 going in May 2002 - through the wayback machine I've dredged up the timetables for them - enjoy web.archive.org/web/20010127194200/http://www.londoncentral.com/nightbus/index.htmIf Arriva could not get night routes in Liverpool to be viable, I doubt they will try in Kent. One notable thing about Ensign's N73 was that it didn't run on Saturday nights. I assume that was to avoid the absolute worst trouble from "revellers". I think one of the problems with somewhere like Liverpool is that there is a vast supply of taxis to get people into town and home again for night time activities. This was one thing I really noticed in Newcastle last time I was there - zillions of taxis plying for trade in the evening. I guess sharing a taxi home is simply cheaper than three or four night bus fares. Stagecoach and Arriva don't run night buses in the North East although Go Ahead do run a few and have kept doing so, so perhaps they've cracked how to compete with the taxis? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 10:13:21 GMT
Are they not night routes to areas with no overnight train service? Oops - I missed the N prefix. I would still question whether TfL needs to be running such long services beyond the London boundary even in a fantasy scenario. If we want a night service to Staines then run the 203 all night as it also touches bits of Heathrow Airport so would be valued by locals getting to work. People better than me have tried to run cross boundary night buses into Kent and Herts in the past and failed. There doesn't seem to be any renewed appetite to do so even with many operators having environmentally compliant buses. Interestingly Arriva have yet to run a 24 hour service on any of their strongest routes in Kent Thameside which is a slight surprise as that network does make money and people must go out on the town in places like Dartford, Chatham and Gravesend. I think the cross boundary issue will become a real issue over the next few years given the housing crisis. The 203 would be an ideal candidate for a weekend night service in 2015 to link with the Piccadilly Line at Hounslow & Hatton Cross. There is a Medway night bus, provided by ASD coaches with support from Medway Council. Runs between Strood and Chatham / Gillingham. |
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 3, 2014 10:56:09 GMT
The 330 certainly has potential for a healthy extension, it's currently very short. I was thinking for it to be extended to Barkingside. This could be done via the 101 to Wanstead, along the 66 to Gants Hill, then up Cranbrook Road to Barkingside to stand with the 247, the stand itself could be expanded to accommodate more buses. This would open up new links between the areas of Canning Town/Upton Park/Forest Gate and Wanstead/Redbridge/Barkingside. At under 9 miles, it would be a healthy length too. Is there really any need for another bus from Gants Hill to Barkingside? I rarely see every bus running full on that section. I'd also question whether you really need a bus that duplicates the Central Line over such a long stretch given off peak tube PAYG fares are barely more expensive than the bus in the outer zones. As discussed before the really sensible extension for the 330 is to run it westwards to Canary Wharf given that is a major employment area and bus links from the A13 are non existent. Yes there would be a parallel with the tube and DLR but a direct bus would be likely to be popular. Yes the Canary Wharf extension was also another idea on my mind, as you stated this would be the only route from Canary Wharf heading eastbound towards Canning Town and beyond. Perhaps it would be more sensible to reduce the eastbound extension to Gants Hill given the large section that would duplicate over the Central Line. I still believe this extension would open up new links between the areas of Gants Hill/Wanstead and Forest Gate/Canning Town/Canary Wharf. |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 6, 2014 22:31:55 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece:  |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 6, 2014 22:52:22 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: I don't understand what's nonsense regarding the 276, 339, 388, 425 & D8 - they all seem to provide decent links to me. |
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 7, 2014 0:36:48 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: You forgot the 158, 241 and 308  |
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Post by Nathan on Oct 7, 2014 2:26:49 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: I like how the 104 just goes from Stratford to nowhere. And also, I'm pretty sure you're not meant to be posting big pictures like this in this section of the forum? |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 7, 2014 7:16:59 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: I don't understand what's nonsense regarding the 276, 339, 388, 425 & D8 - they all seem to provide decent links to me. The nonsense of me forgetting the 276, 339, 388, 425 and D8, and the warning bit All in all except not mentioning other Stratford routes in this map, I'm pretty sure it should really happen  |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 7, 2014 7:17:09 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: You forgot the 158, 241 and 308 Ooops |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 7, 2014 7:18:44 GMT
Forget the 425, 276, 339, 388 and D8 nonsense, look at this masterpiece: I like how the 104 just goes from Stratford to nowhere. It doesn't  You didn't notice that I did it deliberately to make you think that? It ends at Green Man Roundabout |
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Post by sid on Oct 7, 2014 15:45:10 GMT
Oops - I missed the N prefix. I would still question whether TfL needs to be running such long services beyond the London boundary even in a fantasy scenario. If we want a night service to Staines then run the 203 all night as it also touches bits of Heathrow Airport so would be valued by locals getting to work. People better than me have tried to run cross boundary night buses into Kent and Herts in the past and failed. There doesn't seem to be any renewed appetite to do so even with many operators having environmentally compliant buses. Interestingly Arriva have yet to run a 24 hour service on any of their strongest routes in Kent Thameside which is a slight surprise as that network does make money and people must go out on the town in places like Dartford, Chatham and Gravesend. I think the cross boundary issue will become a real issue over the next few years given the housing crisis. The 203 would be an ideal candidate for a weekend night service in 2015 to link with the Piccadilly Line at Hounslow & Hatton Cross. There is a Medway night bus, provided by ASD coaches with support from Medway Council. Runs between Strood and Chatham / Gillingham. I agree about the 203, probably just between Staines and Hatton Cross. The night service ASD operate in the Medway Towns is only 2 journeys on a Friday and Saturday night. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 9:44:06 GMT
In my opinion, I feel like 33 can be extended to white city during midnight so passengers from the central line can switch to 33 directly if they need to go to richmond, strawberry hill, teddington and fulwell instead of switiching either 72/220 –> 33.
also 57 should extend to elephant and castle via clapham park and brixton by following the 333 during the midnight, since 57 is being a huge overlap upon 131 and 333.
but within that, can anyone tell me the story about N213 and why is it cancelled?
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