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Post by southlondon413 on May 23, 2024 14:39:50 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. It’s a long shot and unlikely but no reason TfL couldn’t explore a 38 style arrangement where some of the 14s are purposely scheduled to run short to Putney Bridge.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 23, 2024 14:42:41 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. That's possibly why it was rumoured when before that the 14 would become Putney Garage to Piccadilly Circus to avoid over bussing the extreme ends. When the 436 was withdrawn North of Vauxhall the proposed freqs on the 36 didn't really go ahead (I seem to recall the off peak was propsoed as something like every 4 mins) with just a few extra peak journeys. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if the 14 only went to every 8 mins daily. When The 14 was proposed for withdrawal there was no mention of an increase on the 414 which was/is every 8 mins so I'd imagine that's considered acceptable for that stretch.
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2024 14:44:00 GMT
Is a consultation really needed? I doubt if many people would even notice the 414 had gone and I can't understand why the route wasn't withdrawn in its entirety a few years go. Cutting it to Marble Arch was step one just like the 45 cut to Elephant & Castle. Now step two get rid of it completely. The same thing was attempted with both Routes 45 & 414 a few years ago and here they are today still. I imagine the cut section of the 414 has seen an increase of passengers on Routes 6 & 36. Not saying it should or shouldn't go but the 414 is slightly different to the 45 in that the important links on it's corridor will mostly be retained with the existing 14 (I highly doubt anyone from Marble Arch or Park Lane will require Chelsea & Westminster Hospital for instance) whereas Clapham Park residents will no longer have their direct hospital link if the rumours regarding the 45 come to pass nor any link to Camberwell or East Street market, a big draw from the Brixton end of the route including south of Brixton itself. But yes, in terms of the process, your exactly right and it really is an indictment as to how much of a shambles TfL have become - if they really didn't believe in the 414, they should of been up front about it rather than create a stupid halfway house of trying to fool people by cutting the northern end knowing full well that they'd be simply fueling decline for the sake of it. The difference with the 45 is this plan hasn't exactly worked how they thought it would - the 45 isn't a 109 type busy route by any means but it still carries decent loads and there are more vital links on the route arguably than the 414 was left with hence why the rumours are suggesting a 118 extension.
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2024 14:45:03 GMT
I've said this before and I will say this again when I feel it's relevant: Superloop shouldn't be the only bus services that are prioritised and introduced. This feels to me that TfL are trying to recycle resources to fund the Mayor's Superloop plans. There is no attempt by TfL to synchronise timetables on buses which share corridors, something that was specified in contracts in the past. I agree with this. The 208 & 320 are completely a waste of resources both running together punching each other and this has been happening for 14 years. I’m very sure there are other corridors where you wait ages then all buses turn up. 2, 415 & 432 are another example along Tulse Hill - so many times, they all turn up together rather than more spaced out
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Post by DT 11 on May 23, 2024 15:02:04 GMT
I agree with this. The 208 & 320 are completely a waste of resources both running together punching each other and this has been happening for 14 years. I’m very sure there are other corridors where you wait ages then all buses turn up. 2, 415 & 432 are another example along Tulse Hill - so many times, they all turn up together rather than more spaced out I was actually going to say this in my post but actually didn’t bother. Yes and what happens is the whole of Brixton gets blocked up because the stop is at the front of all of them.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 23, 2024 15:11:20 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. I wonder if the 14 would get pulled back to Piccadilly Circus if this occurs, tfl have tried to do so in the past & they believe the 19/38 are sufficient on Shaftsbury Ave & they don’t care about proving a bus service next to the British Museum/Russell Square. If they really wanted to go all out they could divert the 14 to Roehampton Danebury Ave, combined with the 190 being extended to South Kensington the 430 could go as well.
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Post by joefrombow on May 23, 2024 15:37:06 GMT
Found this today, seems like TFL are trying to merge routes 14 and 414 once again. The link currently takes you to a closed page as of right now. Is a consultation really needed? I doubt if many people would even notice the 414 had gone and I can't understand why the route wasn't withdrawn in its entirety a few years go. Most consultations are a forgone conclusion anyway as we know , merely a waste of money printing posters and having these farcical exercises , just announce the change and get on with it I say as it will happen regardless ( but if this consultation is real , as I see the C in central London is lower case I've been tricked before on here so always wary lol ) Then more useful routes have been got rid of i.e the 48 so don't see a issue with the 414 going also proves tfl have eyes on this forum and take ideas lol 👀👀
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Post by ADH45258 on May 23, 2024 16:03:41 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. I wonder if the 14 would get pulled back to Piccadilly Circus if this occurs, tfl have tried to do so in the past & they believe the 19/38 are sufficient on Shaftsbury Ave & they don’t care about proving a bus service next to the British Museum/Russell Square. If they really wanted to go all out they could divert the 14 to Roehampton Danebury Ave, combined with the 190 being extended to South Kensington the 430 could go as well. I think a compromise could perhaps be to also divert the 19 or 38 via Russell Square and Kings Cross, which would also create various new links. The 19 and 38 are both high frequency, not sure if both are needed via Rosebery Avenue, particularly when they parallel each other all the way from Hyde Park Corner to Islington. If needed you could also reroute the 56 or 476 at Angel to go to Holborn instead?
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Post by ADH45258 on May 23, 2024 17:29:04 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. Could a terminus swap with the 74 work here, with the slightly less frequent 74 going to Putney Heath? Also will the 14 be sufficient on the section between Putney Bridge and Fulham Broadway? If not, maybe a short extension of the 11 could be useful.
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 23, 2024 17:37:25 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. I wonder if the 14 would get pulled back to Piccadilly Circus if this occurs, tfl have tried to do so in the past & they believe the 19/38 are sufficient on Shaftsbury Ave & they don’t care about proving a bus service next to the British Museum/Russell Square. If they really wanted to go all out they could divert the 14 to Roehampton Danebury Ave, combined with the 190 being extended to South Kensington the 430 could go as well. That may be an inevitable outcome as plans to pedestrianise Great Russell Street in front of the British Museum are back in play.
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Post by abellion on May 23, 2024 17:39:20 GMT
The biggest issue I see is that the 14’s stretches without the 414 are extremely congested , Putney High Street and HPC-Russell Square, so having even more vehicles running there would be messy. More buses from Putney Bridge to Heath also seems a bit excessive. I am going to miss the 414 if it does go, but it hasn’t been as good as a route in terms of vehicles or routing since QB lost it and the cutback in November 2021 so it’s not really that upsetting. I wonder if the 14 would get pulled back to Piccadilly Circus if this occurs, tfl have tried to do so in the past & they believe the 19/38 are sufficient on Shaftsbury Ave & they don’t care about proving a bus service next to the British Museum/Russell Square. If they really wanted to go all out they could divert the 14 to Roehampton Danebury Ave, combined with the 190 being extended to South Kensington the 430 could go as well. I prefer southlondon413’s idea, simply just turn some buses to Putney Bridge, no need to involve other routes. Unless TfL decide to revisit the 74/430 they might as well be left alone. Cutting the 14 back from Russell Square does have merit too though assuming that the unique stretch is not needed
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Post by greg on May 23, 2024 20:49:19 GMT
I wonder if the 14 would get pulled back to Piccadilly Circus if this occurs, tfl have tried to do so in the past & they believe the 19/38 are sufficient on Shaftsbury Ave & they don’t care about proving a bus service next to the British Museum/Russell Square. If they really wanted to go all out they could divert the 14 to Roehampton Danebury Ave, combined with the 190 being extended to South Kensington the 430 could go as well. That may be an inevitable outcome as plans to pedestrianise Great Russell Street in front of the British Museum are back in play. 14’s a lot busier than the 19 IMO westbound Shafestbury Avenue. It picks up an entirety at the Cambridge Circus bus stop westbound and then nothing up until Piccadilly but at the same time the 14 is pretty much empty northbound but picks up a generous amount at Gerrard Place up to Russel Square. If its being pedestrianised, Id hope it at least makes it to TCR - could divert via Charing Cross Road by Forbidden Planet to terminate at St Giles High Street and start journeys towards Putney at Cambridge Circus.
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Post by southlondon413 on May 23, 2024 21:18:04 GMT
That may be an inevitable outcome as plans to pedestrianise Great Russell Street in front of the British Museum are back in play. 14’s a lot busier than the 19 IMO westbound Shafestbury Avenue. It picks up an entirety at the Cambridge Circus bus stop westbound and then nothing up until Piccadilly but at the same time the 14 is pretty much empty northbound but picks up a generous amount at Gerrard Place up to Russel Square. If its being pedestrianised, Id hope it at least makes it to TCR - could divert via Charing Cross Road by Forbidden Planet to terminate at St Giles High Street and start journeys towards Putney at Cambridge Circus. Do you mean on Shaftesbury Avenue and then a left turn onto St Giles High Street because that’s a pretty tight turn these days and there is very little stand space on St Giles High Street. The better option would be to have the 14 share the 176 stand on Great Russell Street, that way the first stop could be St Giles High Street.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 23, 2024 22:20:15 GMT
14’s a lot busier than the 19 IMO westbound Shafestbury Avenue. It picks up an entirety at the Cambridge Circus bus stop westbound and then nothing up until Piccadilly but at the same time the 14 is pretty much empty northbound but picks up a generous amount at Gerrard Place up to Russel Square. If its being pedestrianised, Id hope it at least makes it to TCR - could divert via Charing Cross Road by Forbidden Planet to terminate at St Giles High Street and start journeys towards Putney at Cambridge Circus. Do you mean on Shaftesbury Avenue and then a left turn onto St Giles High Street because that’s a pretty tight turn these days and there is very little stand space on St Giles High Street. The better option would be to have the 14 share the 176 stand on Great Russell Street, that way the first stop could be St Giles High Street. I have thought the 8 could extend to Trafalgar Square where there is a large amount of stand space available, then the 14 could take the 8’s space. The 14’s last stop would be New Oxford St & first stop would be Tottenham Ct Road Station (S).
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Post by mb171 on May 23, 2024 23:12:47 GMT
I low-key forgot that 414 no longer goes to Maida Hill as I was going to say that this merged route would run all the way from Maida Hill - Putney making it way too long.
I'd imagine the 14 would run from Putney Bridge to Marble Arch. This would essentially mean that Russell Square would lose out on another route. Not surprised as several routes have been cut back / rerouted from there 7, 98, 188 etc... can't comment too much about both routes usage as I've never used either route.
So yet another Central London route is going adding on the withdrawn route portfolio - 10, 48, 82, 168, 332, C2, RV1, 507/521.
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