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Post by greg on May 29, 2024 16:51:38 GMT
Have you actually used the 205… it is not exactly empty. It quite often leaves passengers behind during weekend hours. Also most journeys on this route are not end to end so the Elizabeth Line has little imperative on the 205. Which parts are busy at the weekend and when? Paddington-Whitechapel 24 hours of the day. I can back this because I use the 205 every weekend from Regent’s Park Station to Royal London Hospital. You really do have to check for yourself, at any point of the route it skips stops, particular places being Shoreditch High Street / Curtain Road, King’s Cross Station, City Road & Moorfields
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 29, 2024 17:47:20 GMT
I also have to disagree with cutting frequencies on routes just because there are rail options near the route. The busiest route in London, the 18 parallels the Bakerlooo/London Overgound for almost all of its route, a route like that definitely cannot afford to have its frequency reduced. The 25/86 are some other examples of routes that parallel rail/tube lines that also are some of the busiest routes in London. The 25 and 86 are slightly different as their higher usage has a lot to do with the area they serve and the fact a lot of passengers can’t afford the higher rail fares. With the discussion in general sometimes frequency are cut to match demand. Surely it’s better for buses to be busy instead of running around half empty. I don’t particularly like busy buses but if they are matching the demand then it’s not an issue. I think in London people have very high expectations and think a bus every ten or twelve minutes is not good enough. It’s the same on the tube where people fight to get on a packed train because they feel a 2 or 3 minute wait for the next train is too long. Every 10 to 12 would be acceptable if it was achievable to have buses evenly spaced. The 205 running in pairs or even triplets isn’t unusual with, consequently, 20 min gaps not being uncommon. It’s a real shame because it should be a good route as it has bus priority along most of it. And to add to what others have said, it has absolutely no overlap with demand for Crossrail. It serves two very different markets.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 29, 2024 19:04:57 GMT
Which parts are busy at the weekend and when? Paddington-Whitechapel 24 hours of the day. I can back this because I use the 205 every weekend from Regent’s Park Station to Royal London Hospital. You really do have to check for yourself, at any point of the route it skips stops, particular places being Shoreditch High Street / Curtain Road, King’s Cross Station, City Road & Moorfields Interesting, there are quite a few Central London routes where the demand at weekends would justify a frequency increase.
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Post by greg on May 29, 2024 20:59:05 GMT
Paddington-Whitechapel 24 hours of the day. I can back this because I use the 205 every weekend from Regent’s Park Station to Royal London Hospital. You really do have to check for yourself, at any point of the route it skips stops, particular places being Shoreditch High Street / Curtain Road, King’s Cross Station, City Road & Moorfields Interesting, there are quite a few Central London routes where the demand at weekends would justify a frequency increase. I would advocate it for all my local routes tbh, particular mentions to the 18, 24, 27, 29, 31, 46, 88, 176, 214, Routes that could do with a little less on the weekends IMO just some suggestions: 38, 73, 390, 453
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Post by lundnah on May 29, 2024 22:55:45 GMT
Whenever the Upcoming changes thread goes 20 posts without a single mention of any upcoming changes I treat myself to a can of beer.
Cheers!
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Post by DE20106 on May 30, 2024 7:53:04 GMT
Interesting, there are quite a few Central London routes where the demand at weekends would justify a frequency increase. I would advocate it for all my local routes tbh, particular mentions to the 18, 24, 27, 29, 31, 46, 88, 176, 214, Routes that could do with a little less on the weekends IMO just some suggestions: 38, 73, 390, 453 The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 30, 2024 11:40:15 GMT
Whenever the Upcoming changes thread goes 20 posts without a single mention of any upcoming changes I treat myself to a can of beer.
Cheers!
There is meant to be the 253 and 254; just been too busy to post them
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Post by redbus on May 30, 2024 11:48:02 GMT
I would advocate it for all my local routes tbh, particular mentions to the 18, 24, 27, 29, 31, 46, 88, 176, 214, Routes that could do with a little less on the weekends IMO just some suggestions: 38, 73, 390, 453 The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone Both the 38 and 73 have had considerable cuts compared to how they used to be. Remember that frequencies have to cover the loading at the busiest times of day on the busiest part of the route. I see many packed 38s and 73s, it just depends when and where. One needs to look at the whole route at all different times before concluding whether it is over bussed. I think the 139 could do with a Sunday increase in frequency to at least every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour) from the current 12 minute service.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 30, 2024 12:25:08 GMT
I would advocate it for all my local routes tbh, particular mentions to the 18, 24, 27, 29, 31, 46, 88, 176, 214, Routes that could do with a little less on the weekends IMO just some suggestions: 38, 73, 390, 453 The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone I think their frequencies could be more justified if they weren’t heavily overlapping with other routes (19 in the 38’s case & 390/476 in the 73’s case).
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Post by greg on May 30, 2024 14:58:55 GMT
The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone I think their frequencies could be more justified if they weren’t heavily overlapping with other routes (19 in the 38’s case & 390/476 in the 73’s case). In the case of the 73, 390 and 476 I think if timetables were adjusted it could be better. I.e. the 73 currently (observationally) comes every 4 minutes. If the frequency was changed to every 10-12 minutes, same going for the 390 and 476 all at 10 minutes, at half intervals (etc. 73 due at 20:05/20:15 and 390/476 due 20:10/20:20) then this could be much more easier than what it is now when the 73 and often 2 bunch with a 390 or 476.
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Post by gwiwer on May 30, 2024 15:36:35 GMT
I think their frequencies could be more justified if they weren’t heavily overlapping with other routes (19 in the 38’s case & 390/476 in the 73’s case). In the case of the 73, 390 and 476 I think if timetables were adjusted it could be better. I.e. the 73 currently (observationally) comes every 4 minutes. If the frequency was changed to every 10-12 minutes, same going for the 390 and 476 all at 10 minutes, at half intervals (etc. 73 due at 20:05/20:15 and 390/476 due 20:10/20:20) then this could be much more easier than what it is now when the 73 and often 2 bunch with a 390 or 476. The problem with that on such a close headway is that it is near-impossible to achieve separation and even headways. Traffic lights can detain a bus by as much as 3- 4 minutes (and sometimes much more) if the phasing isn't perfect or if traffic conditions do not favour the route offered such as congestion ahead preventing a "go" on green. There's your even headway gone at one set of lights. Each bus stop can take a full minute and sometimes more now by the time the doors have opened and closed; platform boarding for all its perceived faults was very much faster and conductors taking fares meant no pause was required at all on entry. It is not ideal when several routes arrive together on common sections after an extended interval but short of global traffic intervention and some form of enforcing the bus to go after a given time at each stop I cannot see how close even headways can be achieved in London.
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Post by Trafalgax on May 30, 2024 15:51:51 GMT
Whenever the Upcoming changes thread goes 20 posts without a single mention of any upcoming changes I treat myself to a can of beer.
Cheers!
There is meant to be the 253 and 254; just been too busy to post them When you do have the time, would you be able to post them?
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Post by southlondon413 on May 30, 2024 16:00:55 GMT
In the case of the 73, 390 and 476 I think if timetables were adjusted it could be better. I.e. the 73 currently (observationally) comes every 4 minutes. If the frequency was changed to every 10-12 minutes, same going for the 390 and 476 all at 10 minutes, at half intervals (etc. 73 due at 20:05/20:15 and 390/476 due 20:10/20:20) then this could be much more easier than what it is now when the 73 and often 2 bunch with a 390 or 476. The problem with that on such a close headway is that it is near-impossible to achieve separation and even headways. Traffic lights can detain a bus by as much as 3- 4 minutes (and sometimes much more) if the phasing isn't perfect or if traffic conditions do not favour the route offered such as congestion ahead preventing a "go" on green. There's your even headway gone at one set of lights. Each bus stop can take a full minute and sometimes more now by the time the doors have opened and closed; platform boarding for all its perceived faults was very much faster and conductors taking fares meant no pause was required at all on entry. It is not ideal when several routes arrive together on common sections after an extended interval but short of global traffic intervention and some form of enforcing the bus to go after a given time at each stop I cannot see how close even headways can be achieved in London. Exactly and this is why TfL look at 99.9% of routes individually rather than as a set or a combination, the obvious exception being the 406/418 which are once again treated as one route.
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Post by Trafalgax on May 30, 2024 16:06:48 GMT
I would advocate it for all my local routes tbh, particular mentions to the 18, 24, 27, 29, 31, 46, 88, 176, 214, Routes that could do with a little less on the weekends IMO just some suggestions: 38, 73, 390, 453 The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone With the 73, yes. With the 38, no. The 73 gets busy but not as much as it used to when it went to Victoria. The 38 however is still one of the busiest routes in London especially going eastbound.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 30, 2024 16:24:50 GMT
The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone Both the 38 and 73 have had considerable cuts compared to how they used to be. Remember that frequencies have to cover the loading at the busiest times of day on the busiest part of the route. I see many packed 38s and 73s, it just depends when and where. One needs to look at the whole route at all different times before concluding whether it is over bussed. I think the 139 could do with a Sunday increase in frequency to at least every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour) from the current 12 minute service. Agree that x12mins on Sundays is not good enough on the Oxford Street to Aldwych corridor. I would reroute the 23 back down Oxford Street and Regent Street and thereby avoid the need for a PVR increase on the 139.
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