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Post by VMH2537 on May 30, 2024 18:08:19 GMT
The problem with that on such a close headway is that it is near-impossible to achieve separation and even headways. Traffic lights can detain a bus by as much as 3- 4 minutes (and sometimes much more) if the phasing isn't perfect or if traffic conditions do not favour the route offered such as congestion ahead preventing a "go" on green. There's your even headway gone at one set of lights. Each bus stop can take a full minute and sometimes more now by the time the doors have opened and closed; platform boarding for all its perceived faults was very much faster and conductors taking fares meant no pause was required at all on entry. It is not ideal when several routes arrive together on common sections after an extended interval but short of global traffic intervention and some form of enforcing the bus to go after a given time at each stop I cannot see how close even headways can be achieved in London. Exactly and this is why TfL look at 99.9% of routes individually rather than as a set or a combination, the obvious exception being the 406/418 which are once again treated as one route. I really do hate saying this, but there are many routes that run together, bunched often at the same frequency on large sections of the corridor without providing a frequent even frequency. How would something like the 217/231 bunched together providing a 20 minute gap on a Sunday be acceptable with one bus having a pax load onto one whilst the other behind empty? It's really a waste of resources having something like this and does nothing but deters people away from buses. This is in my opinion one of the worst policies TfL has developed on network planning from the removing of short workings and branches when other cities in the country manage fine.
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Post by southlondon413 on May 30, 2024 18:33:46 GMT
Exactly and this is why TfL look at 99.9% of routes individually rather than as a set or a combination, the obvious exception being the 406/418 which are once again treated as one route. I really do hate saying this, but there are many routes that run together, bunched often at the same frequency on large sections of the corridor without providing a frequent even frequency. How would something like the 217/231 bunched together providing a 20 minute gap on a Sunday be acceptable with one bus having a pax load onto one whilst the other behind empty? It's really a waste of resources having something like this and does nothing but deters people away from buses. This is in my opinion one of the worst policies TfL has developed on network planning from the removing of short workings and branches when other cities in the country manage fine. That’s fair enough if both routes are originating from the same location but it wouldn’t be as easy on the end that they don’t share. It would require a lot of micromanaging and perhaps as AI tech grows it may be possible to coordinate more but it is what it is right now.
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Post by redbus on May 30, 2024 20:35:59 GMT
Both the 38 and 73 have had considerable cuts compared to how they used to be. Remember that frequencies have to cover the loading at the busiest times of day on the busiest part of the route. I see many packed 38s and 73s, it just depends when and where. One needs to look at the whole route at all different times before concluding whether it is over bussed. I think the 139 could do with a Sunday increase in frequency to at least every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour) from the current 12 minute service. Agree that x12mins on Sundays is not good enough on the Oxford Street to Aldwych corridor. I would reroute the 23 back down Oxford Street and Regent Street and thereby avoid the need for a PVR increase on the 139. The 139 can also get very busy north of Oxford Street on a Sunday and arguably needs an uplift in its own right. The re-routing of the 23 will not happen simply because there is no desire to put more routes through Oxford Street and Regent Street and also now the Park Lane / Piccadilly routing is established I don't think it will be removed without replacement.
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Post by greenboy on May 30, 2024 20:55:24 GMT
The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone Both the 38 and 73 have had considerable cuts compared to how they used to be. Remember that frequencies have to cover the loading at the busiest times of day on the busiest part of the route. I see many packed 38s and 73s, it just depends when and where. One needs to look at the whole route at all different times before concluding whether it is over bussed. I think the 139 could do with a Sunday increase in frequency to at least every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour) from the current 12 minute service. Both routes have been overbussed since they lost their bendybuses, particularly the 73 which is duplicated by the 390 and 476. There are quite a few routes that need a Sunday frequency increase but TfL seem reluctant to do so, possibly because Sunday shopping hours are limited and leisure travel fluctuates depending on the weather. Plus more Sunday work is likely to make staff recruitment more difficult.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 30, 2024 20:57:17 GMT
Both the 38 and 73 have had considerable cuts compared to how they used to be. Remember that frequencies have to cover the loading at the busiest times of day on the busiest part of the route. I see many packed 38s and 73s, it just depends when and where. One needs to look at the whole route at all different times before concluding whether it is over bussed. I think the 139 could do with a Sunday increase in frequency to at least every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour) from the current 12 minute service. Both routes have been overbussed since they lost their bendybuses, particularly the 73 which is duplicated by the 390 and 476. There are quite a few routes that need a Sunday frequency increase but TfL seem reluctant to do so, possibly because Sunday shopping hours are limited and leisure travel fluctuates depending on the weather. Plus more Sunday work is likely to make staff recruitment more difficult. I think it might also result in more staff leaving as contracts with staff members are consulted on and changed to include more Sunday working where necessary. So if anything you could have more staff leave as a result.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 30, 2024 23:00:34 GMT
The 38 and 73 are so overbussed it’s crazy. How TfL have allowed them to carry on with their frequencies so long is insane when everything else gets cut to the bone With the 73, yes. With the 38, no. The 73 gets busy but not as much as it used to when it went to Victoria. The 38 however is still one of the busiest routes in London especially going eastbound. The 73 is due to get a slight pvr drop of around 1-2 buses soon.
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 31, 2024 0:54:12 GMT
With the 73, yes. With the 38, no. The 73 gets busy but not as much as it used to when it went to Victoria. The 38 however is still one of the busiest routes in London especially going eastbound. The 73 is due to get a slight pvr drop of around 1-2 buses soon. The 73 is a route which could take a frequency decrease during the daytime but retain a stronger peak frequency but that's inefficient in TfL land. Though given the number of buses usually stood at Oxford Circus (well, when it was at Holles Street), would a 1-2 PVR reduction actually entail a frequency reduction?
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 3, 2024 19:34:30 GMT
Frequently see this with the 294 and 365 on Sundays too. Its annoying because people use both routes between Romford and Havering Park (myself included), and people find it hard to justify waiting 20 mins for a bus, when you could just space them out better and have an every 10 min service. Another issue is that the 294 seems to have a very padded schedule or slow buses as the drivers always drive so slow, whilst the 365 has one of the worst timetables I've seen where it wants the journey from Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row done in 3 mins... whilst all the other routes get 7 mins to do so...
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Post by Leccy86Hybrid on Jun 4, 2024 6:37:40 GMT
Frequently see this with the 294 and 365 on Sundays too. Its annoying because people use both routes between Romford and Havering Park (myself included), and people find it hard to justify waiting 20 mins for a bus, when you could just space them out better and have an every 10 min service. Another issue is that the 294 seems to have a very padded schedule or slow buses as the drivers always drive so slow, whilst the 365 has one of the worst timetables I've seen where it wants the journey from Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row done in 3 mins... whilst all the other routes get 7 mins to do so... All Stagecoach routes get 5mins to do Collier Row - Romford Bus Garage after 9pm. (Can’t speak for Arriva). The problem with the 365 is the route is very unpredictable. Sometimes, you can run 5 early sometimes you will be 10-20 late.
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 4, 2024 18:30:15 GMT
Frequently see this with the 294 and 365 on Sundays too. Its annoying because people use both routes between Romford and Havering Park (myself included), and people find it hard to justify waiting 20 mins for a bus, when you could just space them out better and have an every 10 min service. Another issue is that the 294 seems to have a very padded schedule or slow buses as the drivers always drive so slow, whilst the 365 has one of the worst timetables I've seen where it wants the journey from Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row done in 3 mins... whilst all the other routes get 7 mins to do so... All Stagecoach routes get 5mins to do Collier Row - Romford Bus Garage after 9pm. (Can’t speak for Arriva). The problem with the 365 is the route is very unpredictable. Sometimes, you can run 5 early sometimes you will be 10-20 late. I was talking about Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row, where on the timetables there it shows the 175,247,294 and 375 get 6-7 mins to complete the journey whereas the 365 according to its displayed timetable is only given around 3 mins Surely if the route is so unpredictable, maybe a better timetable would be in operation or less curtailments to useless destinations would happen as controllers would understand the issue. Today there were at least 2 or 3 curtailments to Parkside Avenue at one point there was no 365 north of Parkside Avenue for over 30 mins which is just not good enough. The 365 needs a better timetable or have routes paralleling all of it for there to be some slack for curtailments not one where the bus is 10 mins delayed so they won't drive the extra few stops to Havering Park.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 4, 2024 20:26:54 GMT
All Stagecoach routes get 5mins to do Collier Row - Romford Bus Garage after 9pm. (Can’t speak for Arriva). The problem with the 365 is the route is very unpredictable. Sometimes, you can run 5 early sometimes you will be 10-20 late. I was talking about Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row, where on the timetables there it shows the 175,247,294 and 375 get 6-7 mins to complete the journey whereas the 365 according to its displayed timetable is only given around 3 mins Surely if the route is so unpredictable, maybe a better timetable would be in operation or less curtailments to useless destinations would happen as controllers would understand the issue. Today there were at least 2 or 3 curtailments to Parkside Avenue at one point there was no 365 north of Parkside Avenue for over 30 mins which is just not good enough. The 365 needs a better timetable or have routes paralleling all of it for there to be some slack for curtailments not one where the bus is 10 mins delayed so they won't drive the extra few stops to Havering Park. I don't believe this, surely things like this does not happen with the forums favourite operator
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Jun 5, 2024 16:26:29 GMT
I was talking about Romford Bus Garage to Collier Row, where on the timetables there it shows the 175,247,294 and 375 get 6-7 mins to complete the journey whereas the 365 according to its displayed timetable is only given around 3 mins Surely if the route is so unpredictable, maybe a better timetable would be in operation or less curtailments to useless destinations would happen as controllers would understand the issue. Today there were at least 2 or 3 curtailments to Parkside Avenue at one point there was no 365 north of Parkside Avenue for over 30 mins which is just not good enough. The 365 needs a better timetable or have routes paralleling all of it for there to be some slack for curtailments not one where the bus is 10 mins delayed so they won't drive the extra few stops to Havering Park. I don't believe this, surely things like this does not happen with the forums favourite operator It happened yesterday I had to run for the 365 because there wasn't one to Havering Park for another 30 mins (checked the app and screens and the next one was 'Parkside Avenue' without one going to Havering Park). Stagecoach is just the worst operator when it comes down to operating the 365 I'm 110% sure operators like Go Ahead, Arriva or any other operator could do a better job. (No wonder why Arriva DX has retained the 175). Not to mention the fact that the 365 is consistently the worst performing route in Romford/Havering and maybe a change of operator and timetable could fix the route...
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 7, 2024 9:20:39 GMT
677 is getting an additional afternoon journey taking the PVR to 2.
Must have been a increase in demand in the afternoon for kids crossing Loughton to get back to Chigwell, Barkingside, Ilford but not in the morning. The morning I guess is more spaced out and many would take the 167 then 20/397 whereas in the afternoon everyone descends on the bus stop at the same time.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 7, 2024 10:26:25 GMT
There is meant to be the 253 and 254; just been too busy to post them When you do have the time, would you be able to post them? I keep forgetting. It has been changed as below ROUTE 253 SATURDAY 1/6/2024 ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 18 BUSES REASON FOR CHANGE – NEW CONTRACTROUTE 253 SUNDAY ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 18 BUSES ROUTE 253 MONDAY TO THURSDAY ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 19 BUSES ROUTE 253 FRIDAY ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 19 BUSES ROUTE N253 FRIDAY NIGHT / SATURDAY MORNING 31-5-2024 / 1-6-2024 ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 8 BUSES REASON FOR CHANGE - NEW CONTRACTROUTE N253 SATURDAY NIGHT / SUNDAY MORNING ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 8 BUSES ROUTE N253 SUNDAY NIGHT / MONDAY MORNING ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 5 BUSES ROUTE N253 MON-THUR NIGHT / TUES-FRI MORNING ALLOCATION - CLAPTON 5 BUSES ROUTE 254 SATURDAY 1/6/2024 ALLOCATION - STAMFORD HILL 21 BUSES REASON FOR CHANGE – NEW CONTRACTROUTE 254 SUNDAY ALLOCATION - STAMFORD HILL 21 BUSES ROUTE 254 MONDAY TO THURSDAY ALLOCATION - STAMFORD HILL 23 BUSES ROUTE 254 FRIDAY ONLY ALLOCATION - STAMFORD HILL 23 BUSES
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 7, 2024 11:34:50 GMT
677 is getting an additional afternoon journey taking the PVR to 2. Must have been a increase in demand in the afternoon for kids crossing Loughton to get back to Chigwell, Barkingside, Ilford but not in the morning. The morning I guess is more spaced out and many would take the 167 then 20/397 whereas in the afternoon everyone descends on the bus stop at the same time. I wonder if this has any link to the route being thrown back?
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