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Post by VH45161 on Jun 10, 2024 20:10:50 GMT
Surely the 85 is a mistake. It says on the website : ”24-hour route 85 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels. Buses will now run every 20 minutes during both the daytime and evening on all days of the week.”Buses will run at every twenty minutes during the daytime? TWENTY?!?! Surely not from every eight minutes. Surely More like a truth than a typo.  There are always 20 minutes gaps during peak hours and weekends due to traffic so I’m not surprised this actually happens with further PVR cut. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jun 10, 2024 20:54:31 GMT
Im gonna say one that many may not agree or get with, but Im going to blame HS2. Hampstead Road has been one big community, it was where the 24 had most of its passengers, but now because 70% of the existing Euston residents have been kicked out the area, relocated or moved because the area is now a dump, there has been some rapid decline. As someone from the area, its quite common having to walk up to Warren Street as all the bus stops on Hampstead Road are closed because of HS2/Thames Water works and single file traffic and delays. Im not sure where you would even need to use the 24 in any scenario, the 29 or 88 being much more useful unless its Malden Road residents up to the Heath or Camden or the minimal single digit usage between Pimlico amd Parliament Square. I was a child growing up when the 24 had its Es so my memory is quite limited, but one I do remember is always preferring them to the 88’s VWLs and it was a loooot busier than it now is. Needless to say though, the 24 is very busy on the weekends (when a bus comes every 20 minutes lol). I fail to understand why any work started at Euston prior to there being a proper commitment for HS2 to terminate at Euston and not Old Oak Common. I am also surprised at the choice of Euston as a terminus, surely Paddington would be easier, cheaper and better. It has the Elizabeth line and Euston would remain with the West Coast Main line. You put the funding in You take the funding out In, out, in, out, shake it all about You do the Hokey Cokey when inflation's raged out That's what it's all about!   It was always initially planned for HS2 to serve Euston. Simply put, financial forecasts didn't line up with what the Government envisaged as their grandiose High Speed terminus. I cannot remember the mini doc I saw online (could may well be Jago Hazzard) but initial forecasts were underestimated by the billions and it only got worse over the years. Covid was the canary in the coalmine moment where bosses literally stopped to address their spiralling cost issues. |
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Post by WH241 on Jun 10, 2024 21:22:54 GMT
All smoke and mirrors with the new Superloop routes and the new north London route. I expect it’s now business as usual now until the next election. More frequency cuts etc… I’m certainly not a fan of Khan as many will know, but from my POV it does actually seem like the cuts have been really toned down I can’t recall any other cuts except the 110 and upcoming 85? Also the new 310 and 495 coming. I am expecting to see cuts but I’ve been surprised to see them not being that heavy. (Although cynically he’s expanded ULEZ so he probably be seen to be brutally slashing public transport options) I also wouldn’t call the new Superloop ‘smoke and mirrors’. It would be smoke and mirrors if he was pretending to improve journeys when nothing is happening. Such as the rebranding of the SL8 and SL9, and to an extent the SL7 definitely could be viewed as that. I wouldn’t imagine myself ever defending the mayor, but creating 10 brand new routes to make genuine new and faster links is much harder to argue with My comments are more lots of election pledges then a long spell with no real investment! I find it funny cuts are suddenly coming! The 414 will most likely be another casualty and imagine there will be frequency cuts along the new Superloop corridors especially the 66 along the A12. TfL doesn’t have a magic money tree and even with a Labour government they won’t just pile the money into London. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jun 10, 2024 22:29:15 GMT
Youre telling me, the days when the 24 had a PVR of 29 I think, 32 57-reg allocated to it in the GAL SW days. I remember my first time on the 24, it was E86. Got on at Trafalgar Square towards HH and the bus was packed to the door, as were many other 24’s I saw that day. Now fully loaded 24’s are few and far between, really only some peak and school journeys and maybe a weekend journey if there’s been a delay Im gonna say one that many may not agree or get with, but Im going to blame HS2. Hampstead Road has been one big community, it was where the 24 had most of its passengers, but now because 70% of the existing Euston residents have been kicked out the area, relocated or moved because the area is now a dump, there has been some rapid decline. As someone from the area, its quite common having to walk up to Warren Street as all the bus stops on Hampstead Road are closed because of HS2/Thames Water works and single file traffic and delays. Im not sure where you would even need to use the 24 in any scenario, the 29 or 88 being much more useful unless its Malden Road residents up to the Heath or Camden or the minimal single digit usage between Pimlico amd Parliament Square. I was a child growing up when the 24 had its Es so my memory is quite limited, but one I do remember is always preferring them to the 88’s VWLs and it was a loooot busier than it now is. Needless to say though, the 24 is very busy on the weekends (when a bus comes every 20 minutes lol). The 24 remains busier than what you normally seem to encounter, being my local route. If anything I think it shouldn't have a PVR cut as it seems barely enough to handle the frequency with the challenging traffic whilst the 73 seems to have a surplus where a cut would comfortably run the existing frequency. Looking through footage from spotters from the mid 2010s (which is plentiful due to the 24 being the first route for the production NBFLs!), the buses were far emptier back then (albeit running at double the current frequency -- but far from the only route being operated carrying thin air in Central London). There was clearly some over-bussing going on back then (my first visit to London in 2015 with the 38 running at what I thought was absurd frequencies with 1-5 passengers onboard seemed a bit over the top to me) but now there's an under-provision rather than an over-provision. |
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Post by redbus on Jun 10, 2024 22:30:51 GMT
I’m certainly not a fan of Khan as many will know, but from my POV it does actually seem like the cuts have been really toned down I can’t recall any other cuts except the 110 and upcoming 85? Also the new 310 and 495 coming. I am expecting to see cuts but I’ve been surprised to see them not being that heavy. (Although cynically he’s expanded ULEZ so he probably be seen to be brutally slashing public transport options) I also wouldn’t call the new Superloop ‘smoke and mirrors’. It would be smoke and mirrors if he was pretending to improve journeys when nothing is happening. Such as the rebranding of the SL8 and SL9, and to an extent the SL7 definitely could be viewed as that. I wouldn’t imagine myself ever defending the mayor, but creating 10 brand new routes to make genuine new and faster links is much harder to argue with My comments are more lots of election pledges then a long spell with no real investment! I find it funny cuts are suddenly coming! The 414 will most likely be another casualty and imagine there will be frequency cuts along the new Superloop corridors especially the 66 along the A12. TfL doesn’t have a magic money tree and even with a Labour government they won’t just pile the money into London. The difference is that this time he won't be able to blame the government so easily as after the forthcoming election the government is likely to be the same party! |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 10, 2024 23:17:27 GMT
I'm a bit baffled why people are shocked by the 85's cut and by that, I don't mean the 85 should be cut (of course it shouldn't) but that this was known months ago when it was retained by London United that the new contract would have a frequency cut in it.
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Post by Trafalgax on Jun 10, 2024 23:24:32 GMT
From Saturday 29 June, Route 211 will be changed to run from Hammersmith Upper Bus Station to Battersea Power Station via Charing Cross Hospital, Fulham Broadway, King's Road, Sloane Square and Chelsea Bridge. Route 77 will now start and finish on the Upper Taxi Road at Waterloo Station.
Route 211 will now run from Hammersmith Upper Bus Station via its current route to Sloane Square where it will be rerouted via Lower Sloane Street, Chelsea Bridge Road, Chelsea Bridge, Queenstown Road, Queen's Circus, Prince Of Wales Drive and Battersea Park Road to terminate at Battersea Power Station. The current section of route between Sloane Square and Waterloo will no longer be served by route 211 however passengers can still use route 11 which will cover the withdrawn section of route 211. Passengers can interchange between the 11 and 211 in both directions at the Sloane Square bus stops located on Lower Sloane Street.
Route 211 will continue to run every 8-9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.
First buses on route 211 will continue to depart Hammersmith Bus Station at 0505 and from Battersea Power Station at 0525 on all days of the week. Last buses will depart Hammersmith Upper Bus Station at 2400 and from Battersea Power Station at 0010 on all days of the week.
Route 77 will have its routeing and stops amended at Waterloo Station. Towards Waterloo route 77 will no longer serve bus stop F at County Hall or the current last stop on Concert Hall Approach. Instead, buses will be rerouted via Station Approach Road to Cab Road setting down by entrance / exit number 3 at Waterloo mainline station.
On departure to Tooting route 77 buses will pick up from bus stop B on Cab Road before re-joining the current routeing on York Road. Route 77 buses will no longer pick up from bus stop T on Concert Hall Approach.
There will be a minor timetable change on route 77 to reflect the new routeing however no change to the departure times of first and last buses on any day of the week. The route will continue to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 10, 2024 23:30:44 GMT
Sadiq Khan, you are indeed a very good actor. What's with the beef now on cutting a busy well used trunk route between Kingston and Putney? Fair question - but then would Susan Hall have stopped TfL from doing this? A very irrelevant answer. Whilst on that subject what would stop Zac Goldsmith, Boris Johnson, Ken Livingstone, Sean Bailey etc. from doing this if they were still in power or elected. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 10, 2024 23:40:51 GMT
I fail to understand why any work started at Euston prior to there being a proper commitment for HS2 to terminate at Euston and not Old Oak Common. I am also surprised at the choice of Euston as a terminus, surely Paddington would be easier, cheaper and better. It has the Elizabeth line and Euston would remain with the West Coast Main line. There was a commitment for HS2 to terminate at Euston until the most recent Conservative Government intervened in the project. Euston is a far better terminus than Paddington and would have tied into a bigger "Euston Cross" interchange linking Euston, St Pancras International and Kings Cross together more closely. Also if HS2 and Crossrail 2 were being built, many of the trains that currently terminate at Euston would be diverted to those lines. Would they do that with Crossrail 2 as Crossrail 1 (aka Elizabeth line) does not allow non Elizabeth line trains through their core. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 11, 2024 4:20:37 GMT
I’m certainly not a fan of Khan as many will know, but from my POV it does actually seem like the cuts have been really toned down I can’t recall any other cuts except the 110 and upcoming 85? Also the new 310 and 495 coming. I am expecting to see cuts but I’ve been surprised to see them not being that heavy. (Although cynically he’s expanded ULEZ so he probably be seen to be brutally slashing public transport options) I also wouldn’t call the new Superloop ‘smoke and mirrors’. It would be smoke and mirrors if he was pretending to improve journeys when nothing is happening. Such as the rebranding of the SL8 and SL9, and to an extent the SL7 definitely could be viewed as that. I wouldn’t imagine myself ever defending the mayor, but creating 10 brand new routes to make genuine new and faster links is much harder to argue with My comments are more lots of election pledges then a long spell with no real investment! I find it funny cuts are suddenly coming! The 414 will most likely be another casualty and imagine there will be frequency cuts along the new Superloop corridors especially the 66 along the A12. TfL doesn’t have a magic money tree and even with a Labour government they won’t just pile the money into London. I said the same with Hammersmith Bridge that it could actually be harder for Khan with a Labour government as he will loose the blame option. For the Bridge now between him, the Labour Run Council, MP and potential government someone is going to have to make a decision. Same with the Bakerloo Line trains (and possible extension) Crossrail 2 development etc. |
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Post by greenboy on Jun 11, 2024 5:27:27 GMT
Sadiq Khan, you are indeed a very good actor. What's with the beef now on cutting a busy well used trunk route between Kingston and Putney? Ridiculous cutting the 85 when fresh air service 414 is still running! |
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Post by greg on Jun 11, 2024 5:34:56 GMT
Im gonna say one that many may not agree or get with, but Im going to blame HS2. Hampstead Road has been one big community, it was where the 24 had most of its passengers, but now because 70% of the existing Euston residents have been kicked out the area, relocated or moved because the area is now a dump, there has been some rapid decline. As someone from the area, its quite common having to walk up to Warren Street as all the bus stops on Hampstead Road are closed because of HS2/Thames Water works and single file traffic and delays. Im not sure where you would even need to use the 24 in any scenario, the 29 or 88 being much more useful unless its Malden Road residents up to the Heath or Camden or the minimal single digit usage between Pimlico amd Parliament Square. I was a child growing up when the 24 had its Es so my memory is quite limited, but one I do remember is always preferring them to the 88’s VWLs and it was a loooot busier than it now is. Needless to say though, the 24 is very busy on the weekends (when a bus comes every 20 minutes lol). The 24 remains busier than what you normally seem to encounter, being my local route. If anything I think it shouldn't have a PVR cut as it seems barely enough to handle the frequency with the challenging traffic whilst the 73 seems to have a surplus where a cut would comfortably run the existing frequency. Looking through footage from spotters from the mid 2010s (which is plentiful due to the 24 being the first route for the production NBFLs!), the buses were far emptier back then (albeit running at double the current frequency -- but far from the only route being operated carrying thin air in Central London). There was clearly some over-bussing going on back then (my first visit to London in 2015 with the 38 running at what I thought was absurd frequencies with 1-5 passengers onboard seemed a bit over the top to me) but now there's an under-provision rather than an over-provision. I think you may have misread my post, I agree with everything that you say. I meant that just like the 24, the 73 also had empty NB4L’s still does. Both are also my local routes. The 24 IMO is clearly busier because PVR has dropped from 29 to 17 over the years. I mean to say that the 73 would have far busier buses if it was dealt with the same consequences (not that I think it would be too detrimental anyway). |
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Post by Busboy105 on Jun 11, 2024 6:18:41 GMT
Sadiq Khan, you are indeed a very good actor. What's with the beef now on cutting a busy well used trunk route between Kingston and Putney? Ridiculous cutting the 85 when fresh air service 414 is still running! The 414 might not be around for much longer |
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 11, 2024 7:45:04 GMT
There was a commitment for HS2 to terminate at Euston until the most recent Conservative Government intervened in the project. Euston is a far better terminus than Paddington and would have tied into a bigger "Euston Cross" interchange linking Euston, St Pancras International and Kings Cross together more closely. Also if HS2 and Crossrail 2 were being built, many of the trains that currently terminate at Euston would be diverted to those lines. Would they do that with Crossrail 2 as Crossrail 1 (aka Elizabeth line) does not allow non Elizabeth line trains through their core. As with the Elizabeth Line, a new fleet of Crossrail 2 trains would be used on the Central Core but would also take over services on existing lines, that's what I meant. |
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Post by londonbuses on Jun 11, 2024 8:08:34 GMT
Changes to routes 77 & 211 - 29 June 2024 From Saturday 29 June route 211 will be changed to run from Hammersmith Upper Bus Station to Battersea Power Station via Charing Cross Hospital, Fulham Broadway, King's Road, Sloane Square and Chelsea Bridge. Route 77 will now start and finish on the Upper Taxi Road at Waterloo Station. Route 211 will now run from Hammersmith Upper Bus Station via its current route to Sloane Square where it will be rerouted via Lower Sloane Street, Chelsea Bridge Road, Chelsea Bridge, Queenstown Road, Queen's Circus, Prince Of Wales Drive and Battersea Park Road to terminate at Battersea Power Station. The current section of route between Sloane Square and Waterloo will no longer be served by route 211 however passengers can still use route 11 which will cover the withdrawn section of route 211. Passengers can interchange between the 11 and 211 in both directions at the Sloane Square bus stops located on Lower Sloane Street. Route 211 will continue to run every 8-9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. First buses on route 211 will continue to depart Hammersmith Bus Station at 0505 and from Battersea Power Station at 0525 on all days of the week. Last buses will depart Hammersmith Upper Bus Station at 2400 and from Battersea Power Station at 0010 on all days of the week. Route 77 will have its routeing and stops amended at Waterloo Station. Towards Waterloo route 77 will no longer serve bus stop F at County Hall or the current last stop on Concert Hall Approach. Instead, buses will be rerouted via Station Approach Road to Cab Road setting down by entrance / exit number 3 at Waterloo mainline station. On departure to Tooting route 77 buses will pick up from bus stop B on Cab Road before re-joining the current routeing on York Road. Route 77 buses will no longer pick up from bus stop T on Concert Hall Approach. There will be a minor timetable change on route 77 to reflect the new routeing however no change to the departure times of first and last buses on any day of the week. The route will continue to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The new timetable and bus stops served by routes 77 and 211 can be found in our journey planner tool at www.tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey |
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There are always 20 minutes gaps during peak hours and weekends due to traffic so I’m not surprised this actually happens with further PVR cut. 
