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Post by snoggle on Nov 1, 2015 19:16:49 GMT
Expecting people to be rational in their views about buses "invading their personal worlds" and getting within inches of their "palaces on wheels" is expecting too much. Nearly everyone has selfish expectations about the impact of external things and other people on their personal world of home and vehicle. I am sure that if someone sat down and explained "before" and "after" (e.g. the 64 has 0.5 extra buses per hour into New Addington and the night service is no different frequency wise) then the views might moderate slightly. I wouldn't expect full acceptance but most people will accept a reasonably presented and cogent argument.
The simple fact is that LT and then TfL have run a service structure in New Addington that for much of the day was massive overprovision relative to the usage. It can hardly be a shock to anyone paying attention that this could never last. If TfL are prepared to take buses off long established and far busier routes serving Zone 1 then New Addington is never going to be a special case to keep lots of buses running when there are not enough "bums on seats".
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Post by sid on Nov 1, 2015 19:29:36 GMT
Expecting people to be rational in their views about buses "invading their personal worlds" and getting within inches of their "palaces on wheels" is expecting too much. Nearly everyone has selfish expectations about the impact of external things and other people on their personal world of home and vehicle. I am sure that if someone sat down and explained "before" and "after" (e.g. the 64 has 0.5 extra buses per hour into New Addington and the night service is no different frequency wise). The simple fact is that LT and then TfL have run a service structure in New Addington that for much of the day was massive overprovision relative to the usage. It can hardly be a shock to anyone paying attention that this could never last. If TfL are prepared to take buses off long established and far busier routes serving Zone 1 then New Addington is never going to be a special case. Overbury Crescent didn't have double deckers before the changes, they had the single deck 130 and 464 which nobody seemed to object to, Arnhem Drive on the other hand is a long established route for double deckers. I don't anybody could reasonably object to the removal of the T routes and I don't think anybody is expecting New Addington to be a 'special case'. |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 1, 2015 19:54:54 GMT
I think the 130 and 464 could have been left as they were, nobody seemed to object to them, and the revamped 64 could have gone via Arnhem Drive The 64 was probably diverted to serve Overbury Cresent & Homestead Way because of the Night Service and so that New Addington is well served by a 24 Hour Service over the day routes, Arhem Drive does not need the 64 to serve is when it passes both end of the road when the 64 is on its rounds. |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 1, 2015 19:57:50 GMT
Expecting people to be rational in their views about buses "invading their personal worlds" and getting within inches of their "palaces on wheels" is expecting too much. Nearly everyone has selfish expectations about the impact of external things and other people on their personal world of home and vehicle. I am sure that if someone sat down and explained "before" and "after" (e.g. the 64 has 0.5 extra buses per hour into New Addington and the night service is no different frequency wise). The simple fact is that LT and then TfL have run a service structure in New Addington that for much of the day was massive overprovision relative to the usage. It can hardly be a shock to anyone paying attention that this could never last. If TfL are prepared to take buses off long established and far busier routes serving Zone 1 then New Addington is never going to be a special case. Overbury Crescent didn't have double deckers before the changes, they had the single deck 130 and 464 which nobody seemed to object to, Arnhem Drive on the other hand is a long established route for double deckers. I don't anybody could reasonably object to the removal of the T routes and I don't think anybody is expecting New Addington to be a 'special case'. Wrong, the 664 has always served Overbury Crescent & Homestead Way. |
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Post by sid on Nov 1, 2015 20:11:55 GMT
I think the 130 and 464 could have been left as they were, nobody seemed to object to them, and the revamped 64 could have gone via Arnhem Drive The 64 was probably diverted to serve Overbury Cresent & Homestead Way because of the Night Service and so that New Addington is well served by a 24 Hour Service over the day routes, Arhem Drive does not need the 64 to serve is when it passes both end of the road when the 64 is on its rounds. It makes little difference either way but it would seem more sensible to have left the 130 and 464 as they were and run the 64 via Arnhem Drive. I suspect the 64 was routed that way so it could serve both Homestead Way and Vulcan Way? |
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Post by sid on Nov 1, 2015 20:13:19 GMT
Overbury Crescent didn't have double deckers before the changes, they had the single deck 130 and 464 which nobody seemed to object to, Arnhem Drive on the other hand is a long established route for double deckers. I don't anybody could reasonably object to the removal of the T routes and I don't think anybody is expecting New Addington to be a 'special case'. Wrong, the 664 has always served Overbury Crescent & Homestead Way. Indeed it has but just a few school journeys |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 1, 2015 20:25:03 GMT
The 64 was probably diverted to serve Overbury Cresent & Homestead Way because of the Night Service and so that New Addington is well served by a 24 Hour Service over the day routes, Arhem Drive does not need the 64 to serve is when it passes both end of the road when the 64 is on its rounds. It makes little difference either way but it would seem more sensible to have left the 130 and 464 as they were and run the 64 via Arnhem Drive. I suspect the 64 was routed that way so it could serve both Homestead Way and Vulcan Way? Not really, the 64 mainly replaced the T31 retaining the link and the high frequency, whilst the 130 & 464 replaced parts of the T32 hence why they were re-routed. |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 1, 2015 20:27:28 GMT
Wrong, the 664 has always served Overbury Crescent & Homestead Way. Indeed it has but just a few school journeys Still double deckers, so Overbury Crescent & Homestead Way are OK for double deckers. |
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Post by sid on Nov 1, 2015 23:27:18 GMT
There seems to be both positive and negative comments about the changes which is probably to be expected. One valid gripe is the changes to the 130 and the loss of the direct link from Fieldway and Merrow/Goldcrest Way to the industrial estate, a much longer round the houses journey now
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Post by croydonguy on Nov 2, 2015 8:49:34 GMT
The only thing I can nag about is that the 64 seems to be a lot less reliable. Sometimes every 5 minutes but other times there's bunching and the next one can be up to 20 minutes later. I've lived on King Henry's Drive for 20 years now and without a doubt it's a big change. My road has gone from having 4 routes to just 2 but personally, apart from the unreliability issues I just mentioned, I really don't mind the changes. I'm also noticing that residents are complaining about the 64's Scanias being noisy but if you ask me, they're nothing compared to the ENL's and the 314's E200s.
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Post by sid on Nov 2, 2015 9:58:58 GMT
The only thing I can nag about is that the 64 seems to be a lot less reliable. Sometimes every 5 minutes but other times there's bunching and the next one can be up to 20 minutes later. I've lived on King Henry's Drive for 20 years now and without a doubt it's a big change. My road has gone from having 4 routes to just 2 but personally, apart from the unreliability issues I just mentioned, I really don't mind the changes. I'm also noticing that residents are complaining about the 64's Scanias being noisy but if you ask me, they're nothing compared to the ENL's and the 314's E200s. Well they won't have to endure Scania's on the 64 for too much longer but if Arriva put any VLA's out they'll really have something to complain about lol. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 2, 2015 11:44:57 GMT
The only thing I can nag about is that the 64 seems to be a lot less reliable. Sometimes every 5 minutes but other times there's bunching and the next one can be up to 20 minutes later. I've lived on King Henry's Drive for 20 years now and without a doubt it's a big change. My road has gone from having 4 routes to just 2 but personally, apart from the unreliability issues I just mentioned, I really don't mind the changes. I'm also noticing that residents are complaining about the 64's Scanias being noisy but if you ask me, they're nothing compared to the ENL's and the 314's E200s. Well they won't have to endure Scania's on the 64 for too much longer but if Arriva put any VLA's out they'll really have something to complain about lol. Neither TH or TC have VLA's anyway nor will they receive any lol. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 2, 2015 12:34:28 GMT
Either way DWs or T's are likely to be seen on the route as if it goes to TC o doubt the 1st gen DWs would go on the route.
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Post by sid on Nov 2, 2015 16:46:06 GMT
Either way DWs or T's are likely to be seen on the route as if it goes to TC o doubt the 1st gen DWs would go on the route. I would have thought TH was more likely although it did operate from TC in a previous tenure so you never know. Years ago there was a policy of not putting any decent buses (ie showbuses etc) on New Addington routes because of the vandalism, the farebox fitted buses on the C routes which were route bound suffered a lot of damage although I think things are a bit more civilized nowdays  |
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Post by sam1212 on Nov 2, 2015 20:58:43 GMT
Expecting people to be rational in their views about buses "invading their personal worlds" and getting within inches of their "palaces on wheels" is expecting too much. Nearly everyone has selfish expectations about the impact of external things and other people on their personal world of home and vehicle. I am sure that if someone sat down and explained "before" and "after" (e.g. the 64 has 0.5 extra buses per hour into New Addington and the night service is no different frequency wise). The simple fact is that LT and then TfL have run a service structure in New Addington that for much of the day was massive overprovision relative to the usage. It can hardly be a shock to anyone paying attention that this could never last. If TfL are prepared to take buses off long established and far busier routes serving Zone 1 then New Addington is never going to be a special case. Overbury Crescent didn't have double deckers before the changes, they had the single deck 130 and 464 which nobody seemed to object to, Arnhem Drive on the other hand is a long established route for double deckers. I don't anybody could reasonably object to the removal of the T routes and I don't think anybody is expecting New Addington to be a 'special case'. well overbury did, the 664's go down there and there double deck and they coped just fine |
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