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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2014 9:52:38 GMT
I'm surprised people are not more excited about having the 64 serving most of new Addington restoring a link to croydon directly. I would imagine people *are* pleased to see the 64 serving more of New Addington : generally, people who like bus changes keep it to themselves, where those who don't shout it from the rooftops and write to all and sundry. Travelling by bus Interchanging is just becoming normal for most people. People who moan about it don't realise how lucky and frequent most bus services are... Must have a decent amount of services which go to various places. |
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Post by sid on Oct 26, 2014 20:42:41 GMT
Either way I was I'm new Addington yday about 430 and all u saw was lightly used T31s and empty T32s plus the 130 in was on was lightly used and the 64s arriving and departing near empty. The T routes are so under used I feel they cannot be justified anymore. I'm surprised people are not more excited about having the 64 serving most of new Addington restoring a link to croydon directly. I agree about the T routes, hopefully the 130 will be busier when it goes via Spring Lane and is extended to Thornton Heath. The 64 is a bit indirect going via Selsdon and it might be better curtailed at Addington Village and extend the 466 up to New Addington instead, it serves no useful purpose in its current form. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2014 20:44:58 GMT
Either way I was I'm new Addington yday about 430 and all u saw was lightly used T31s and empty T32s plus the 130 in was on was lightly used and the 64s arriving and departing near empty. The T routes are so under used I feel they cannot be justified anymore. I'm surprised people are not more excited about having the 64 serving most of new Addington restoring a link to croydon directly. I agree about the T routes, hopefully the 130 will be busier when it goes via Spring Lane and is extended to Thornton Heath. The 64 is a bit indirect going via Selsdon and it might be better curtailed at Addington Village and extend the 466 up to New Addington instead, it serves no useful purpose in its current form. The 64 is fine how it is really and is quite a popular service, it may be indirect but it actually serves places where people will board the bus, the 466 has a different purpose than the 64. |
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Post by sid on Oct 26, 2014 21:12:46 GMT
I agree about the T routes, hopefully the 130 will be busier when it goes via Spring Lane and is extended to Thornton Heath. The 64 is a bit indirect going via Selsdon and it might be better curtailed at Addington Village and extend the 466 up to New Addington instead, it serves no useful purpose in its current form. The 64 is fine how it is really and is quite a popular service, it may be indirect but it actually serves places where people will board the bus, the 466 has a different purpose than the 64. The 466 has no real purpose at the moment. Yes the 64 does serve places where people board the bus (Selsdon area)but if its full with passengers from New Addington they won't get on so New Addington passengers would be better on the 466 which will get them to Croydon quicker and currently has plenty of spare capacity. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 26, 2014 21:38:57 GMT
Either way I was I'm new Addington yday about 430 and all u saw was lightly used T31s and empty T32s plus the 130 in was on was lightly used and the 64s arriving and departing near empty. The T routes are so under used I feel they cannot be justified anymore. I'm surprised people are not more excited about having the 64 serving most of new Addington restoring a link to croydon directly. I agree about the T routes, hopefully the 130 will be busier when it goes via Spring Lane and is extended to Thornton Heath. The 64 is a bit indirect going via Selsdon and it might be better curtailed at Addington Village and extend the 466 up to New Addington instead, it serves no useful purpose in its current form. The 64, 130 & T31 do load pretty well around New Addington - 130's are jam packed at school kicking out time. The 466 does have a purpose and as such, it is sufficiently used from New Addington right up to Caterham-On-The-Hill. Obviously, in the evenings, it's quietens down around Addington but so does most routes in London. |
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Post by sid on Oct 26, 2014 21:55:20 GMT
I agree about the T routes, hopefully the 130 will be busier when it goes via Spring Lane and is extended to Thornton Heath. The 64 is a bit indirect going via Selsdon and it might be better curtailed at Addington Village and extend the 466 up to New Addington instead, it serves no useful purpose in its current form. The 64, 130 & T31 do load pretty well around New Addington - 130's are jam packed at school kicking out time. The 466 does have a purpose and as such, it is sufficiently used from New Addington right up to Caterham-On-The-Hill. Obviously, in the evenings, it's quietens down around Addington but so does most routes in London. I think you'll find the 466 is lightly loaded at both ends for much of the day, it might get busy along Brighton Road depending on gaps in other routes. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2014 22:03:42 GMT
The 64 is fine how it is really and is quite a popular service, it may be indirect but it actually serves places where people will board the bus, the 466 has a different purpose than the 64. The 466 has no real purpose at the moment. Yes the 64 does serve places where people board the bus (Selsdon area)but if its full with passengers from New Addington they won't get on so New Addington passengers would be better on the 466 which will get them to Croydon quicker and currently has plenty of spare capacity. The 466 does have a purpose, it is busier between Croydon & Old Coulsdon where most of the usage is, just mainly an additional bus route to the Addington Area. The T33 serves Selsdon as well and High Frequency... and assists the 64, the section between Selsdon & Croydon is quite well used on both routes. The 64 also Links Addington with West, East & South Croydon Stations and Mayday Hospital and not everyone who uses the 64 is travelling directly to Croydon as there are other important places along the route it stops at. Even if the 466 was extended to New Addington, the 64 is likely to be the preferred service by residents as it will serve the back streets like the N64 making a direct Link to Croydon Town Centre 24-7. The 64 frequency also matches the T31. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 26, 2014 22:23:51 GMT
Time to be objectionable and give a few facts and a little bit of opinion.
Route 466 has seen growth of 107% in 13 years. It started off with about 1.8m pax pa and is now over 3.7m pa. It doesn't appear to have any sort of capacity issue but that's a brave statement to make on aggregated annual data (so take it with a pinch of salt). On an average basis it's been putting on 140,000 extra pass jnys per year but again beware averages (reality is that patronage goes up and down but the trend is overall upwards). I've only one recent ride on it from end to end and it wasn't under any obvious strain then. What it does do is provide a reasonably frequent service on several main roads as well as linking in Caterham on the Hill.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 27, 2014 0:37:40 GMT
The 64, 130 & T31 do load pretty well around New Addington - 130's are jam packed at school kicking out time. The 466 does have a purpose and as such, it is sufficiently used from New Addington right up to Caterham-On-The-Hill. Obviously, in the evenings, it's quietens down around Addington but so does most routes in London. I think you'll find the 466 is lightly loaded at both ends for much of the day, it might get busy along Brighton Road depending on gaps in other routes. It really isn't lightly loaded at the Addington end, seen it numerous times coming in and out of Addington with healthy loads since 2005. It gets busy along Brighton Road regardless of gaps. |
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Post by sid on Oct 27, 2014 9:21:24 GMT
I think you'll find the 466 is lightly loaded at both ends for much of the day, it might get busy along Brighton Road depending on gaps in other routes. It really isn't lightly loaded at the Addington end, seen it numerous times coming in and out of Addington with healthy loads since 2005. It gets busy along Brighton Road regardless of gaps. I drove the 466 a few times when I was with Metrobus, a few years ago now but clearly loadings haven't increased significantly since. It wasn't unheard of to arrive and leave Addington Village empty and you wouldn't get busy along Brighton Road if there was a 60 or a 166 not far in front, the Stoats Nest Road section was generally quiet and certainly a x10 min frequency to Caterham on the Hill isn't justified, maybe if alternate buses terminated at Old Coulsdon Tudor Rose then the 3bph to Caterham could be extended down the hill to Caterham Station where there should be space for one bus to stand. It was only at school times the route got busy. It is certainly difficult to justify both the 130 and the 466 on the Shirley Hills section, there is barely enough custom for one route let alone two although maybe the 130 will get busier when it goes via Spring Lane to Norwood Junction and onto Thornton Heath and is no longer subject to a long winded diversion? Extending the 466 up to New Addington in place of the 64 will certainly give the route a bit more purpose, it will also give a quicker journey to and from Croydon than the 64 does. The 64 can also get very busy on the Monks Hill/Selsdon section and if it is already full of people from New Addington then obviously people are likely to be left behind. At the other end I'd agree with extending the 64 to Streatham (I think it was you that suggested it?) and the the former 50/255 Streatham Hill stand would be ideal. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 29, 2014 23:30:31 GMT
It would be interesting to know the origin/destination of those using the Addington leg of the 466. While I don't doubt that some journeys may well carry decent loads from the interchange, how are these people arriving there? Are they being forced into a change they'd rather not make? How many could still use a revised 353 if it went to Croydon? Are those healthy loads due to tram disruption? I guess TfL have these answers and we don't!
On the subject of the 353, what are loadings actually like over the Coney Hall - Addington section?
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Post by danorak on Dec 17, 2014 10:55:46 GMT
If you're not a reader of the excellent Diamond Geezer blog - and you should be - you may not know that he has visited New Addington and Forestdale as part of his series on letter prefixed bus routes (it's not as dry as it sounds...)
He's included a link to a document I had missed which sets out the background data to these proposals. Interestingly, option 1 would have seen the 314 go to Forestdale rather than New Addington.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 17, 2014 11:53:53 GMT
If you're not a reader of the excellent Diamond Geezer blog - and you should be - you may not know that he has visited New Addington and Forestdale as part of his series on letter prefixed bus routes (it's not as dry as it sounds...) He's included a link to a document I had missed which sets out the background data to these proposals. Interestingly, option 1 would have seen the 314 go to Forestdale rather than New Addington. You beat me to it. I had missed the detailed technical analysis and options. It is quite interesting to see this scale of info for the first time and to note that TfL are now using a new methodology to impute where people alight from busesby using Oyster data. Although it's not 100% reliable it is a step forward in understanding what happens. Two noteworthy route related comments in the document - T33 has too generous a schedule so TfL will be looking to claw some of that back. Route 353 recognised as being unreliable and in need of extra resource at various times of day and TfL to negotiate a change to make that happen ahead of the contract award. I'm also gobsmacked to see the business case with real numbers in it for each of the options for network change in New Addington. Interesting to see how things pan out for real proposals although I understand the basics of the methodology having used it for LU projects long ago. I am slightly surprised there is not a school bus proposal to cater for the New Addington - Coulsdon flow that will almost certainly overwhelm the new 359 bus at school times. Providing a through double decker at school times might be expensive but could be worth it to avoid people not being able to board a 30 min headway service. That's a long wait for a bus if you just missed the previous one - nearly an hour - and unlikely to be well received by people perhaps wanting a ride up Purley Downs Road from Purley shops. |
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Post by metrobusfan on Dec 17, 2014 18:35:12 GMT
Yes I can't see anything wrong with those ideas at all. I'd go a step further and extend the 353 back to Croydon in place of the 466 and add a double run to the 433 via Courtwood Lane replacing that part of the T31. Great minds think alike - the only difference between your idea and my idea is I'd leave the 466 as it is and extend the 353 to Croydon via Lloyd Park & Park Hill. Did the 353 go to croydon via Lloyd park |
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Post by jay38a on Dec 17, 2014 20:25:36 GMT
Great minds think alike - the only difference between your idea and my idea is I'd leave the 466 as it is and extend the 353 to Croydon via Lloyd Park & Park Hill. Did the 353 go to croydon via Lloyd park Yep and the 354 went through Forestdale |
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