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Post by vjaska on Jul 1, 2015 21:59:58 GMT
Personally, I'd remove air cooling from all buses and just have sliding windows - it's a much better way of regulating temperature and would solve the issue that NBfL's currently have.
The other problem with air cooling is the mechanism of how it works - until last year, I never knew you had to close all the windows for it to work to its full effectiveness and that's the problem entirely - very few passengers know this which is why you see all windows open instead.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jul 1, 2015 22:07:51 GMT
BBC London did this very unscientific test by sending a reporter on a 24.
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Post by stubag on Jul 2, 2015 7:35:06 GMT
Personally, I'd remove air cooling from all buses and just have sliding windows - it's a much better way of regulating temperature and would solve the issue that NBfL's currently have. The other problem with air cooling is the mechanism of how it works - until last year, I never knew you had to close all the windows for it to work to its full effectiveness and that's the problem entirely - very few passengers know this which is why you see all windows open instead. Even if you put signs up and lock windows for the full effect... Passengers still find a way of opening then. Was a bane of my job at Slough on the Citaro. Locking windows to board same bus a day later and it be open again
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Post by sid on Jul 2, 2015 8:06:22 GMT
I don't understand people saying we dont need aircon because it's only hot for the odd day here and there. Air con is great for times even when it's not overly hot it makes the whole trip much more comfortable. I don't see why single decks haven't got full size aircon units to be honest. Exactly, that old argument was used for not fitting cars with air con years ago, it's a standard feature nowadays.
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Post by rmz19 on Jul 2, 2015 11:21:43 GMT
Personally, I'd remove air cooling from all buses and just have sliding windows - it's a much better way of regulating temperature and would solve the issue that NBfL's currently have. The other problem with air cooling is the mechanism of how it works - until last year, I never knew you had to close all the windows for it to work to its full effectiveness and that's the problem entirely - very few passengers know this which is why you see all windows open instead. Or better yet, if air con is such an impossibility, have air cooling units that actually work and blow out cool air on the upper and lower deck, and no windows at all so the cool air circulates properly. Yesterday I was on an E40D, the right side of the bus was somewhat cool but the left was not probably due to the open windows, having said that the air was not cool enough, but by no means hot air like most of the LTs disastrously blow out. What could be wrong with them that's so hard to get right? Thermostat not regulating the temperature properly? Refrigerant not cooling the air adequately? Maybe they're both the same thing ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/squint.png) I don't know...something along those lines ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png)
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Post by snoggle on Jul 2, 2015 13:54:11 GMT
Personally, I'd remove air cooling from all buses and just have sliding windows - it's a much better way of regulating temperature and would solve the issue that NBfL's currently have. The other problem with air cooling is the mechanism of how it works - until last year, I never knew you had to close all the windows for it to work to its full effectiveness and that's the problem entirely - very few passengers know this which is why you see all windows open instead. Or better yet, if air con is such an impossibility, have air cooling units that actually work and blow out cool air on the upper and lower deck, and no windows at all so the cool air circulates properly. Yesterday I was on an E40D, the right side of the bus was somewhat cool but the left was not probably due to the open windows, having said that the air was not cool enough, but by no means hot air like most of the LTs disastrously blow out. What could be wrong with them that's so hard to get right? Thermostat not regulating the temperature properly? Refrigerant not cooling the air adequately? Maybe they're both the same thing ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/squint.png) I don't know...something along those lines Sigh ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/notamused.png) No one has said air con is impossible. What it does do, on a double deck bus, is add a lot of weight and increase fuel consumption. In the context of wider Mayoral initiatives like reducing costs and emissions air con on buses doesn't sit very comfortably. The buses in HK are like travelling in a fridge which is lovely when it's warm and humid outside. However it has taken a very long time to achieve fully air con equipped fleets even with the relatively high vehicle investment levels they have in HK although they do ensure buses have a 17-18 year service life so vehicles are worked pretty hard. HK also has the benefit of a nearly all tri-axle double deck fleet which allows high carrying capacities within the axle loading constraints. London has opted to take a different tack because dwell times are considered more important than cramming 100+ people into a bus. Buses do stand still for minutes at a time in HK when loading at busy stops and you get massive queues of vehicles waiting to pull on to a stop because drivers are forbidden to drive round a stop. When you have routes with peak headways of every 3-4 minutes you can easily get 3 or 4 buses on one route in the queue for a stop. I'm not entirely convinced that's the best answer when you consider they're belching out fumes. I think the answer is to get air cooling working properly. I suspect it's close to impossible to achieve it on a NB4L. On other types it would be helpful if TfL put up notices or a message on I-Bus to advise people to keep windows closed to get the max benefit from the air cooling system (where fitted). If you don't tell people how are they supposed to know? I also wish TfL would contemplate speccing the easiest solution which is vents at the front of the bus that will pull in air as the bus moves. I wonder what people would say if the Mayor said "you can have air con on London's buses over the next few years. However we have to double the increase in fares (so 10p instead of 5p) each year to fund the improvements." I wonder if people would agree to spend the extra money? I doubt it.
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Post by sid on Jul 2, 2015 14:06:18 GMT
Personally, I'd remove air cooling from all buses and just have sliding windows - it's a much better way of regulating temperature and would solve the issue that NBfL's currently have. The other problem with air cooling is the mechanism of how it works - until last year, I never knew you had to close all the windows for it to work to its full effectiveness and that's the problem entirely - very few passengers know this which is why you see all windows open instead. Or better yet, if air con is such an impossibility, have air cooling units that actually work and blow out cool air on the upper and lower deck, and no windows at all so the cool air circulates properly. Yesterday I was on an E40D, the right side of the bus was somewhat cool but the left was not probably due to the open windows, having said that the air was not cool enough, but by no means hot air like most of the LTs disastrously blow out. What could be wrong with them that's so hard to get right? Thermostat not regulating the temperature properly? Refrigerant not cooling the air adequately? Maybe they're both the same thing ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/squint.png) I don't know...something along those lines ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png) The trouble is people get on and it's hot and so the automatic reaction is to open the nearest window if it's not open already. There are numerous complaints on twitter about trains with air con problems in this hot spell, quite why reliable air con/cooling systems are such a problem on public transport I don't know ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png)
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Post by rmz19 on Jul 2, 2015 15:27:18 GMT
Or better yet, if air con is such an impossibility, have air cooling units that actually work and blow out cool air on the upper and lower deck, and no windows at all so the cool air circulates properly. Yesterday I was on an E40D, the right side of the bus was somewhat cool but the left was not probably due to the open windows, having said that the air was not cool enough, but by no means hot air like most of the LTs disastrously blow out. What could be wrong with them that's so hard to get right? Thermostat not regulating the temperature properly? Refrigerant not cooling the air adequately? Maybe they're both the same thing ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/squint.png) I don't know...something along those lines Sigh ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/notamused.png) No one has said air con is impossible. What it does do, on a double deck bus, is add a lot of weight and increase fuel consumption. In the context of wider Mayoral initiatives like reducing costs and emissions air con on buses doesn't sit very comfortably. The buses in HK are like travelling in a fridge which is lovely when it's warm and humid outside. However it has taken a very long time to achieve fully air con equipped fleets even with the relatively high vehicle investment levels they have in HK although they do ensure buses have a 17-18 year service life so vehicles are worked pretty hard. HK also has the benefit of a nearly all tri-axle double deck fleet which allows high carrying capacities within the axle loading constraints. London has opted to take a different tack because dwell times are considered more important than cramming 100+ people into a bus. Buses do stand still for minutes at a time in HK when loading at busy stops and you get massive queues of vehicles waiting to pull on to a stop because drivers are forbidden to drive round a stop. When you have routes with peak headways of every 3-4 minutes you can easily get 3 or 4 buses on one route in the queue for a stop. I'm not entirely convinced that's the best answer when you consider they're belching out fumes. I think the answer is to get air cooling working properly. I suspect it's close to impossible to achieve it on a NB4L. On other types it would be helpful if TfL put up notices or a message on I-Bus to advise people to keep windows closed to get the max benefit from the air cooling system (where fitted). If you don't tell people how are they supposed to know? I also wish TfL would contemplate speccing the easiest solution which is vents at the front of the bus that will pull in air as the bus moves. I wonder what people would say if the Mayor said "you can have air con on London's buses over the next few years. However we have to double the increase in fares (so 10p instead of 5p) each year to fund the improvements." I wonder if people would agree to spend the extra money? I doubt it. I know...you've already justified your reasons in the discussion we had in the ranting thread ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) it was just a figure of speech! You've echoed what I said, just get the air cooling systems working properly on all buses, SDs included. On a side note, how much weight would be added if air con systems are fitted? Surely added weight wouldn't be an issue given DDs are decreasing in weight these days, the Gemini 3 for example which is at around 11300 KGs, a siginificant decrease from previous models.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 4, 2015 20:20:17 GMT
UPDATE:- Following public outcry over 'appalling' conditions on the LT's due to lack of airflow, TfL have agreed to rectify the airflow issues in a handful of buses as a trial. ![](http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb47/johnselby123/lt151_cooling_zpsqod5wosu.jpg) LT151's experimental cooling system is put thru it's paces on Route 10 earlier (photo courtesy of FB group) ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 20:31:59 GMT
Without sounding like a STUCK record I really REALLY struggled on a 8 batch LT this afternoon (the batch said to as having good AC by some) on route 15 today.
I was watching other passengers moving around on the top deck trying to find a cool spot! it really was truly awful!
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Post by smiler52 on Jul 4, 2015 20:32:09 GMT
is it me or as that van got front end damage
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Post by snoggle on Jul 4, 2015 21:23:58 GMT
is it me or as that van got front end damage Not you! Apparently taking photos of damaged LTs is now prohibited - if you believe scribbled noticed tacked on the front of wrecked buses. Disgraceful attempt at censorship. ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/notamused.png)
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 4, 2015 22:41:51 GMT
is it me or as that van got front end damage Not you! Apparently taking photos of damaged LTs is now prohibited - if you believe scribbled noticed tacked on the front of wrecked buses. Disgraceful attempt at censorship. ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/notamused.png) Illiterate as well ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png)
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 5, 2015 1:34:10 GMT
Illiterate as well ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) That pathetic looking side airbag that deployed, that looks like a cheap carrier bag next to the Wayfarer. The poor driver didn't stand a chance. #shoddilymade #brownenvelopes ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I am sure there were many PHOTOES taken anyway ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) The person who wrote the note insists he's not illiterate. He says he can prove who his father is ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by vjaska on Jul 5, 2015 2:25:37 GMT
Without sounding like a STUCK record I really REALLY struggled on a 8 batch LT this afternoon (the batch said to as having good AC by some) on route 15 today. I was watching other passengers moving around on the top deck trying to find a cool spot! it really was truly awful! I've only rode one LT on the 8 but the air cooling wasn't working. Surprisingly, on my travels yesterday, the coolest bus I had was a 52 reg Trident not far away from your manor in East London lol. On a serious note, it put other younger buses I used yesterday to shame in that department.
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