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Post by adl on Jul 21, 2022 19:11:30 GMT
I think another thing to bare in mind is that the amount of people using Barking Riverside will increase over the next few years meaning if they cut the EL routes they'll just need to increase it again in the future.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 21, 2022 19:22:26 GMT
I think another thing to bare in mind is that the amount of people using Barking Riverside will increase over the next few years meaning if they cut the EL routes they'll just need to increase it again in the future. Exactly you and Eastlondoner62 make excellent points about the EL routes. There is a mindset here and with TfL that passengers will shift to trains and that's not always the case. I see the second EL1 bus stop at Ilford most weeks and its always carnage even heading towards Barking.
Much like when the Elizabeth Line opened lots are probably trying out the new service / testing journey times etc. I would hope there are no knee jerk changes until the service is more established.
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 21, 2022 19:27:42 GMT
I think another thing to bare in mind is that the amount of people using Barking Riverside will increase over the next few years meaning if they cut the EL routes they'll just need to increase it again in the future. That's exactly my point. Without the station, developers could only build 4,000 residential units as other transport infrastructure was deemed insufficient. With the Overground station comes a green light for the potential of 10,600 homes to be built in the Riverside area. If the high frequencies of the EL1 are needed a couple years down the line, then it will be ramped up then. However in this era of Super Broke: by TfL, there's an opportunity to save a few bob by matching frequency with demand on the EL1.
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 21, 2022 19:42:39 GMT
Scheduled shorts aren't really TfL's style, I'm still surprised the 38's shorts to Hackney Central are still going tbh. Maybe that's me being spiteful for them evaporating from the 25's and 221's schedules... Digression over, can't see it happening on the EL1. At 11bph, a cut to about 8-9bph could better reflect capacity once the dust settles in the Riverside & travel patterns are established. With it being the school holidays currently, the first few weeks in September should give a better picture as to normal commuter journeys. Although notably the EL1s frequency isn't based on the demand from the Riverside, its based on the extremely high Barking to Ilford demand. Barking Riverside just gets a frequency increase coincidentally. Buses still are heaving arriving from Ilford and any frequency decrease on the EL1 would destroy reliability as buses wouldn't be able to cope. I'm sure a trim of 11bph to 10 or even 9bph won't be felt that harshly by EL1 users on Ilford Lane. I'm also aware of the purpose of the route on Ilford Lane, but shant be forgetful about the whole T hames Gateway East London Transit scheme. If the EL1's frequency wasn't needed south of Barking town centre, then the EL1 would terminate there. Instead it's been extended twice into the Riverside in recent years over say the EL3, which has a lower frequency. That suggests a high frequency route is needed in the area, not only along Ilford Lane.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 21, 2022 20:31:29 GMT
Although notably the EL1s frequency isn't based on the demand from the Riverside, its based on the extremely high Barking to Ilford demand. Barking Riverside just gets a frequency increase coincidentally. Buses still are heaving arriving from Ilford and any frequency decrease on the EL1 would destroy reliability as buses wouldn't be able to cope. I'm sure a trim of 11bph to 10 or even 9bph won't be felt that harshly by EL1 users on Ilford Lane. I'm also aware of the purpose of the route on Ilford Lane, but shant be forgetful about the whole T hames Gateway East London Transit scheme. If the EL1's frequency wasn't needed south of Barking town centre, then the EL1 would terminate there. Instead it's been extended twice into the Riverside in recent years over say the EL3, which has a lower frequency. That suggests a high frequency route is needed in the area, not only along Ilford Lane. I'd say it would be, if anything Ilford Lane needs a frequency increase of it's buses. The demand on the Barking to Ilford corridor is ridiculously high and many times buses can't leave the Chapel Road stop until the EL1 behind turns up and takes people away from attempting to board the first bus. As you mentioned earlier, it's probably TfL's reluctance to cut the route short that results in the extreme frequency down there as opposed to demand. Every morning when I go to Barking Station I often get skipped by an EL2 rammed solid to the doors, but I've never been skipped by an EL1, and this was before the Goblin extension. But come Barking Station and all hell breaks lose with people trying to head to Ilford.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2022 22:16:17 GMT
Scheduled shorts aren't really TfL's style, I'm still surprised the 38's shorts to Hackney Central are still going tbh. Maybe that's me being spiteful for them evaporating from the 25's and 221's schedules... Digression over, can't see it happening on the EL1. At 11bph, a cut to about 8-9bph could better reflect capacity once the dust settles in the Riverside & travel patterns are established. With it being the school holidays currently, the first few weeks in September should give a better picture as to normal commuter journeys. Although notably the EL1s frequency isn't based on the demand from the Riverside, its based on the extremely high Barking to Ilford demand. Barking Riverside just gets a frequency increase coincidentally. Buses still are heaving arriving from Ilford and any frequency decrease on the EL1 would destroy reliability as buses wouldn't be able to cope. This is where shorts come into the picture. We can Ill afford to lose capacity between ilford and barking. Shorts will provide capacity where needed, save a few buses and be commensurate with capacity at either place Unfortunately knowing tfl they will skirt around the whole issue and instead of shorts will just cut frequency so might be barking up the wrong tree here
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 21, 2022 23:38:16 GMT
Although notably the EL1s frequency isn't based on the demand from the Riverside, its based on the extremely high Barking to Ilford demand. Barking Riverside just gets a frequency increase coincidentally. Buses still are heaving arriving from Ilford and any frequency decrease on the EL1 would destroy reliability as buses wouldn't be able to cope. This is where shorts come into the picture. We can Ill afford to lose capacity between ilford and barking. Shorts will provide capacity where needed, save a few buses and be commensurate with capacity at either place Unfortunately knowing tfl they will skirt around the whole issue and instead of shorts will just cut frequency so might be barking up the wrong tree here Of course maybe the EL1 could be dropped down to every 7-8 minutes & the 396 say be extended to Barking Town Centre and receive double deckers. This would re-introduce a link between Cranbrook Road & Gants Hill with Barking, which has been lost since 2010 with the 179 cutback. However I am open minded that the 396 does battle the A12, and any time the A12 goes tits up, I think the effects would definitely be felt between Barking & Ilford. Also I don’t think Ilford Lane is known for being a road you can cruise down?! 🤣
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 22, 2022 4:56:52 GMT
This is where shorts come into the picture. We can Ill afford to lose capacity between ilford and barking. Shorts will provide capacity where needed, save a few buses and be commensurate with capacity at either place Unfortunately knowing tfl they will skirt around the whole issue and instead of shorts will just cut frequency so might be barking up the wrong tree here Of course maybe the EL1 could be dropped down to every 7-8 minutes & the 396 say be extended to Barking Town Centre and receive double deckers. This would re-introduce a link between Cranbrook Road & Gants Hill with Barking, which has been lost since 2010 with the 179 cutback. However I am open minded that the 396 does battle the A12, and any time the A12 goes tits up, I think the effects would definitely be felt between Barking & Ilford. Also I don’t think Ilford Lane is known for being a road you can cruise down?! 🤣 You definitely can't cruise down Ilford Lane for the most part. It reminds me of Green Street especially around the Market in Upton Park with how narrow the roads are and may God help you if you're driving and the bus breaks down at the bus stop. You won't be able to overtake it for a while if loads of cars are coming in the opposite direction.
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Post by Green Kitten on Jul 22, 2022 8:24:19 GMT
Should send the 179 back to Barking, still a pretty short route. All based on stand space though.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jul 22, 2022 9:20:32 GMT
TfL have updated the rail replacement to indicate that to go Barking Riverside you need to take the EL routes from Barking. So in essence to replace the line we have three different bus journeys and a tube journey with a walk.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 22, 2022 9:42:27 GMT
TfL have updated the rail replacement to indicate that to go Barking Riverside you need to take the EL routes from Barking. So in essence to replace the line we have three different bus journeys and a tube journey with a walk. Makes sense as the EL routes are frequent enough to cope with the demand. Yes I know it’s slightly inconvenient for passengers but is it really worth having the EL routes and loads of rail replacement buses running between Barking and Barking Riverside. I’m sure it will be argued there should be so this is only my personal view.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 22, 2022 9:49:53 GMT
Of course maybe the EL1 could be dropped down to every 7-8 minutes & the 396 say be extended to Barking Town Centre and receive double deckers. This would re-introduce a link between Cranbrook Road & Gants Hill with Barking, which has been lost since 2010 with the 179 cutback. However I am open minded that the 396 does battle the A12, and any time the A12 goes tits up, I think the effects would definitely be felt between Barking & Ilford. Also I don’t think Ilford Lane is known for being a road you can cruise down?! 🤣 You definitely can't cruise down Ilford Lane for the most part. It reminds me of Green Street especially around the Market in Upton Park with how narrow the roads are and may God help you if you're driving and the bus breaks down at the bus stop. You won't be able to overtake it for a while if loads of cars are coming in the opposite direction. Ilford Lane is absolutely bonkers! Its really bad at the Ilford end near the roundabout! Cars are ruthless for trying pull out and turn from the side roads.
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 22, 2022 11:16:58 GMT
You definitely can't cruise down Ilford Lane for the most part. It reminds me of Green Street especially around the Market in Upton Park with how narrow the roads are and may God help you if you're driving and the bus breaks down at the bus stop. You won't be able to overtake it for a while if loads of cars are coming in the opposite direction. Ilford Lane is absolutely bonkers! Its really bad at the Ilford end near the roundabout! Cars are ruthless for trying pull out and turn from the side roads. I literally try and avoid passing through that street for that very reason. Pre-2010 it was somewhat bearable to go through there. But after 2010 forget it.
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 22, 2022 11:18:04 GMT
Should send the 179 back to Barking, still a pretty short route. All based on stand space though. That move they did in 2010 whilst understandable was still painful nevertheless.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 22, 2022 11:58:02 GMT
Of course maybe the EL1 could be dropped down to every 7-8 minutes & the 396 say be extended to Barking Town Centre and receive double deckers. This would re-introduce a link between Cranbrook Road & Gants Hill with Barking, which has been lost since 2010 with the 179 cutback. However I am open minded that the 396 does battle the A12, and any time the A12 goes tits up, I think the effects would definitely be felt between Barking & Ilford. Also I don’t think Ilford Lane is known for being a road you can cruise down?! 🤣 You definitely can't cruise down Ilford Lane for the most part. It reminds me of Green Street especially around the Market in Upton Park with how narrow the roads are and may God help you if you're driving and the bus breaks down at the bus stop. You won't be able to overtake it for a while if loads of cars are coming in the opposite direction. Green Street's problem was bought on by Newham Council. This was down to putting parking restrictions on many of the side streets which then saw people parking on Green Street itself causing traffic chaos and blocking up buses. There solution was to Narrow the Road, this clearly did not work and made things worse for buses and more traffic hold ups. They then started to use CCTV to fine people stopping on double yellow lines on the street, one of the first councils to do this. It still did not deter many of the offenders, some persistant.
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