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Post by danorak on Dec 15, 2021 22:36:01 GMT
If the 3 was extended over the 24, it would be far too long - this merging of routes together needs to stop Likely only a similar length to 1/168 - not saying I agree with it but it is going to be an unfortunate reality of the medium term future. Although I do expect further merging of routes, I can't see this one. The combined 88/C2 and 1/168 are relatively short extensions that reduce a substantial overlap. There's no real overlap between the 3 and 24 and it would make the 3 longer than when it tried to struggle through to Parliament Hill Fields. It would need pruning south of Brixton at least. Far more likely to my mind (sorry vjaska!) is a rationalisation of the 3/59/109/133/333. |
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Post by TB123 on Dec 15, 2021 23:12:49 GMT
Likely only a similar length to 1/168 - not saying I agree with it but it is going to be an unfortunate reality of the medium term future. Although I do expect further merging of routes, I can't see this one. The combined 88/C2 and 1/168 are relatively short extensions that reduce a substantial overlap. There's no real overlap between the 3 and 24 and it would make the 3 longer than when it tried to struggle through to Parliament Hill Fields. It would need pruning south of Brixton at least. Far more likely to my mind (sorry vjaska!) is a rationalisation of the 3/59/109/133/333. Nor do I personally - that more than anything was a random unrefined suggestion on my part relating to how 24 could be fiddled with. I too see mergers very much focused on overlaps. The 133/333, 109/159 would be obvious ones (not that I agree with them) and obviously take out as much 16bph from the Brixton-Streatham corridor - and even then, the reality I suspect the demand would still require less than that. Time will tell. |
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Post by thekbq14 on Dec 16, 2021 0:42:47 GMT
Although I do expect further merging of routes, I can't see this one. The combined 88/C2 and 1/168 are relatively short extensions that reduce a substantial overlap. There's no real overlap between the 3 and 24 and it would make the 3 longer than when it tried to struggle through to Parliament Hill Fields. It would need pruning south of Brixton at least. Far more likely to my mind (sorry vjaska !) is a rationalisation of the 3/59/109/133/333. Nor do I personally - that more than anything was a random unrefined suggestion on my part relating to how 24 could be fiddled with. I too see mergers very much focused on overlaps. The 133/333, 109/159 would be obvious ones (not that I agree with them) and obviously take out as much 16bph from the Brixton-Streatham corridor - and even then, the reality I suspect the demand would still require less than that. Time will tell. Funny how routes like 333 were made from being demerged from the 133 maybe merged backup with it again |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2021 1:18:02 GMT
Nor do I personally - that more than anything was a random unrefined suggestion on my part relating to how 24 could be fiddled with. I too see mergers very much focused on overlaps. The 133/333, 109/159 would be obvious ones (not that I agree with them) and obviously take out as much 16bph from the Brixton-Streatham corridor - and even then, the reality I suspect the demand would still require less than that. Time will tell. Funny how routes like 333 were made from being demerged from the 133 maybe merged backup with it again Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen - there’s a reason why the A23 corridor has such a high number of buses in the first place |
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Post by thekbq14 on Dec 16, 2021 1:37:37 GMT
Funny how routes like 333 were made from being demerged from the 133 maybe merged backup with it again Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen - there’s a reason why the A23 corridor has such a high number of buses in the first place Exactly, hopefully it doesn't happen for example a "109 - Croydon to Oxford Circus" route will be nice on paper having a route from Zone 5 to Zone 1, but the reliability of the 109 currently only to Brixton is a mess let alone only all the way to Central London and passengers will just use the train as that's the faster option from A to B, so who really wins? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 16, 2021 4:39:46 GMT
Funny how routes like 333 were made from being demerged from the 133 maybe merged backup with it again Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen - there’s a reason why the A23 corridor has such a high number of buses in the first place The same was said for the Old Kent Road with the 415 being extended down to Tesco as recently as 2014 yet the 168 withdrawal is potentially going to remove 6 to 8 bph from between Tesco and Bricklayers arms and along the New Kent Road so you never know about something going from Brixton Hill due to the yuppy element of the population remotely working more/cycling. I'd say the 133/333 is the only real possibility of a merger in Brixton tbh. I can't see the 3/24 or the 109/159. Maybe at a stretch the 415/432 but again unlikely as recently tendered. |
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Post by greenboy on Dec 16, 2021 7:14:21 GMT
Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen - there’s a reason why the A23 corridor has such a high number of buses in the first place The same was said for the Old Kent Road with the 415 being extended down to Tesco as recently as 2014 yet the 168 withdrawal is potentially going to remove 6 to 8 bph from between Tesco and Bricklayers arms and along the New Kent Road so you never know about something going from Brixton Hill due to the yuppy element of the population remotely working more/cycling. I'd say the 133/333 is the only real possibility of a merger in Brixton tbh. I can't see the 3/24 or the 109/159. Maybe at a stretch the 415/432 but again unlikely as recently tendered. I wouldn't totally rule out the 3/24 suggestion, the fact that they are both Abellio routes may have something to do with it? Could possibly be shortened at the southern end swapping termini with the Abellio operated 45 or 415? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 7:45:35 GMT
I can't see the Victoria Street to Pimlico link being broken. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 16 sent to Fulham Broadway and the 11 diverted to Pimlico with perhaps the rest of 24 replaced by a extended 3? If the 3 was extended over the 24, it would be far too long - this merging of routes together needs to stop I think it will continue..... |
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 16, 2021 11:29:27 GMT
As this is all just speculation at this stage, please can we keep it off this thread which is specifically for comment on Bus Network Development papers that have been published. There are other threads dealing with future potential Central and Inner London service changes and keeping comments together makes the discussion board much easier to search and view.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2021 12:33:37 GMT
If the 3 was extended over the 24, it would be far too long - this merging of routes together needs to stop I think it will continue..... I’m very aware of that, doesn’t mean I can’t give my view on it |
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Post by M1104 on Dec 16, 2021 12:56:01 GMT
The same was said for the Old Kent Road with the 415 being extended down to Tesco as recently as 2014 yet the 168 withdrawal is potentially going to remove 6 to 8 bph from between Tesco and Bricklayers arms and along the New Kent Road so you never know about something going from Brixton Hill due to the yuppy element of the population remotely working more/cycling. I'd say the 133/333 is the only real possibility of a merger in Brixton tbh. I can't see the 3/24 or the 109/159. Maybe at a stretch the 415/432 but again unlikely as recently tendered. I wouldn't totally rule out the 3/24 suggestion, the fact that they are both Abellio routes may have something to do with it? TfL would merge routes regardless of whether they're done by one or multiple operators, the 88 (GAL) and C2 (AB) being an example on the latter. |
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Post by greenboy on Dec 16, 2021 15:24:39 GMT
I wouldn't totally rule out the 3/24 suggestion, the fact that they are both Abellio routes may have something to do with it? TfL would merge routes regardless of whether they're done by one or multiple operators, the 88 (GAL) and C2 (AB) being an example on the latter. If I remember correctly the C2 contract had expired so no need to compensate Abellio. |
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Post by M1104 on Dec 16, 2021 16:24:55 GMT
TfL would merge routes regardless of whether they're done by one or multiple operators, the 88 (GAL) and C2 (AB) being an example on the latter. If I remember correctly the C2 contract had expired so no need to compensate Abellio. True |
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Post by aaron1 on Dec 16, 2021 16:43:16 GMT
For C11 I like it to return to King's Cross like it use to do that would make a great for a lot that you don't have to use Thameslink from Cricklewood and West Hampstead Yes but the train is faster But thing with Thameslink is it not reliable as lots of them they get cancel so having the C11 to King's Cross can a good back up |
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Post by cl54 on Dec 30, 2021 16:41:33 GMT
The purpose of these papers is to review the service requirements of whole areas in the light of things like significant housing development.
This can involve merging or cutting back routes but also some completely new links and/or routes.
The planners have data of actual travelling by real people. Far better than joining up the dots on a bus map.
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