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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 17, 2023 19:30:33 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington.
Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 17, 2023 19:35:37 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Agreed that some could be extended but Orpington is on the edge of London, like other towns such as Uxbridge, Barnet and Chingford which have few routes that extend outwards from there. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 17, 2023 19:40:31 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Agreed that some could be extended but Orpington is on the edge of London, like other towns such as Uxbridge, Barnet and Chingford which have few routes that extend outwards from there. Similar to how the 64, 130 and 353 were extended/diverted to serve more of New Addington to replace the T32 and T33. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 17, 2023 19:56:48 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Hmmm. Let’s not withdraw the 51 from Orpington Station. That would be deeply unpopular. |
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lb122
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Post by lb122 on Jun 17, 2023 19:58:49 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Would agree with the 208 being extended to St Mary Cray mainly due to the Nugent Retail Park which I dont believe the bus frequencies reflects its high usage. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 17, 2023 21:39:04 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Could look at splitting the 51, with one route from Woolwich to Sidcup (or QM Hospital), and another route providing a more direct/frequent Orpington-Bexleyheath link? Maybe even as part of a wider restructure involving the X269 superloop - kind of similar to the 140/278/X140 situation? For example, a new Bexleyheath-Orpington route could replace part of the 269, since the new express route would cover most links towards Bromley. Then the 269 could be revised to operate Sidcup to Beckenham Junction (replacing the 162 with higher capacity), and the 162 reduced to Bromley-Eltham? |
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Post by Paul on Jun 18, 2023 7:18:27 GMT
Could look at splitting the 51, with one route from Woolwich to Sidcup (or QM Hospital), and another route providing a more direct/frequent Orpington-Bexleyheath link? I was ‘lucky’ enough to have to attend a CPC course at Plumstead Garage a couple of weeks ago and the 51 pretty much takes me door to door barring a little walking at either end. It’s only an observation based on four trips but those four trips were all broadly similar in that Orpington to Welling was people making longer trips and Sidcup to Woolwich much shorter trips. It made me wonder if a split of the route like that would work with a higher frequency single deck taking over the Woolwich to Sidcup section and the Orpington to Welling section remaining as it is now |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 18, 2023 10:21:34 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. Could look at splitting the 51, with one route from Woolwich to Sidcup (or QM Hospital), and another route providing a more direct/frequent Orpington-Bexleyheath link? Maybe even as part of a wider restructure involving the X269 superloop - kind of similar to the 140/278/X140 situation? For example, a new Bexleyheath-Orpington route could replace part of the 269, since the new express route would cover most links towards Bromley. Then the 269 could be revised to operate Sidcup to Beckenham Junction (replacing the 162 with higher capacity), and the 162 reduced to Bromley-Eltham? Orpington to Bexleyheath can be done by taking the 51 to Sidcup and changing onto numerous routes to Bexleyheath |
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lb122
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Post by lb122 on Jun 18, 2023 11:50:11 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 18, 2023 11:52:59 GMT
Orpington is a bit of a strange mix of trunk routes and local low freq R series routes with the trunk routes not running to particularly high frequencies with the 51 the most freq at every 10 mins with the others every 12 and 15 mins. Three of the trunks (51/208/358) terminate in Orpington. Reliability aside due to lengthening the routes could they all be extended to take on other local functions such as the 51 taking on the main capacity down to Green Street Green replacing part of the R1 and R11, the 358 running the length of the High Street and replacing the R9 to Ramsden Estate and the 208 extended to St Mary Cray. I guess the 358 terminus is fixed at Orpington Station with charging facilities being installed, unless perhaps the 'trams' were used on the 227 and R9 instead, but there would otherwise be a case for extending the 358 to Ramsden instead of the 353 or maybe just to Perry Hall Road with the 208 extended to Ramsden? There would also be the loss of the link to the station from Sevenoaks Road but the current 358 double run via Homefield Rise isn't ideal. |
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Post by greenboy on Jun 18, 2023 11:57:04 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington. Yes I think that would be useful, not much point in the 61 and 161 terminating at Chislehurst other than stand space. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 18, 2023 12:37:40 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington. I think this would be useful, but would likely have to be cut back at the other end for reliability. However the 161 is very indirect anyway at the Greenwich end, with quicker alternatives for anywhere beyond Woolwich - e.g. the 486 to QE Hospital, or the 132 to Eltham. A restructure along the lines of the following has often been suggested before: 61 Bromley North - Orpington - Ramsden Estate R9 withdrawn 161 Orpington - Chislehurst - Eltham 126 Bromley South - Eltham - Woolwich (+ converted to DDs) Then the Woolwich to North Greenwich section of the 161 either left to the 180/472, or extend something else like the 301? Or following my recent suggestion to split the 51, maybe a North Greenwich to Sidcup route could work? |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2023 13:29:06 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington. Wouldn’t that run into reliability issues resulting in the southern end likely having buses turned short at Chislehurst and rendering the extension a bit of a damp squib? |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 18, 2023 13:54:15 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington. Wouldn’t that run into reliability issues resulting in the southern end likely having buses turned short at Chislehurst and rendering the extension a bit of a damp squib? Agreed and the 61 frequency matches the demand for the whole route. The above changes are not needed. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 18, 2023 13:57:30 GMT
What about the 161 being extended from Chislehurst into Orpington. It would fix many of the missing links like Eltham-Orpington. Wouldn’t that run into reliability issues resulting in the southern end likely having buses turned short at Chislehurst and rendering the extension a bit of a damp squib? Not local but the only other thing I'd suggest about the 161 going to Orpington is to cut back to Woolwich and either leave the rest of the route to the 180 and 472 or have another route extended to North Greenwich as others have said, however I'm sure that the 51 would be quicker end to end as opposed to a 161 extension. A bit of a fantasy idea but would it be good to split the 61? One route would operate from Locksbottom to Eltham station via the current 61 and the 161. Hospital links would be retained but Stand space at Eltham could be an issue. The other route would operate from Bromley to Ramsden Estate and the R9 withdrawn. |
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