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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 6:09:02 GMT
I'm in broad agreement with the comments above. The 241 loads heavily towards the Stratford end and I don't think any reduction would be easily born by the 69 or 473, although the CT end of the route is relatively quiet much of the time. I know the 241 very well at the Stratford end and now thinking about it, maybe the peak frequency should remain the same as you can get people standing near to coming into Stratford. However, whenever I use the route during Weekday shopping hours towards Stratford, it is always fairly empty. Saturdays and Sundays are just matched right. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 6:11:26 GMT
Here are my thoughts I'm sure most won't be surprised by my first 192 daytime frequency remains at x10 but with peak at x7/8. Evenings at x12 instead of x15 W3 frequency x5 daytime, x8 evenings 221 x5 to North Finchley x10 to Edgware, evenings x10 144 x5/6 daytime, x10 evenings and 24 hour service with buses x30 Think that is it for now Don't they say route 192 can't be increased due to the road network around Bush Hill Park. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 6:22:18 GMT
What bus routes would you increase or decrease the frequency of to more suit capacity and to what to? Please note, you must not make changes to the route. I would: 20: Reduced from every 15 mins to every 20 mins Monday to Saturday 58: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 86: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins on Sundays 97: Increased from every 8 mins to every 6 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 12-15 mins to every 10 mins Sundays and evenings. 123: Increased from every 11 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 158: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturdays and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins during evenings. Sunday frequency remains the same. 208: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 241: Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins during peak times and Saturday mornings and every 12 mins to every 15 mins during Weekday shopping hours. Times not mentioned to remain the same. 275: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. W16: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. 20 - don't agree. I'm not sure I see the point of depriving the large Debden estate of a decent local service. 58 - agree. It is often tremendously busy. 86 - don't know enough to comment. 97 - don't agree. I don't see the point of overbussing the section north of Walthamstow Central which is what would happen. 123 - agree on Sunday daytimes. As I've said endless numbers of times I'd be happy to get x10 back M-S. We have had "temporary" timetables for *3* years now. That's just ridiculous.  158 - not sure. I don't use it enough or see it enough to comment. 208 - don't know enough to comment. 241 - don't know enough to comment. 275 - don't agree. x12 is decent enough and there is usually plenty of capacity. I don't see the point of a more frequent evening and Sunday service. W16 - I think the bigger issue here is vehicle size. If larger vehicles could be used then they'd be a useful start. I agree the route is busy and needs help at times but part of the issue is reliability. Go Ahead seem to struggle badly with the route. The big problem is that if you shove up the frequency then you're likely to get a demand surge which could overwhelm the service even more despite more buses running! I'd see if 10.2m buses could fit on the route and deploy those first. If that doesn't work then frequency or a route restructure or an overlapping service might be needed to help out. Maybe x15 on Sunday shopping hours would be a help. Comments and replys to what you've said, other than these I agree with the comment 20: There seems to be so much excess capacity in Walthamstow and Leyton, that's why I thought that. 97: When increasing the 97, I was mainly thinking of the section wouth of Walthamstow which can be very busy. This don't normally happen to, but sometimes on Sundays the bus can be wiz past because it is so full. As with the northern section, I thought they can benefit from this as well as I can see this route with a lot of people on leaving Walthamstow towards Chingford. If this section will be overbused on the north of Walthamstow, I would reduce the 357 frequency (maybe to every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday) which I can never recall for years being full. 123: What is the difference between every 10 minutes and every 11 minutes? 275: People just say it needs a few extra peak buses, maybe why I thought it needs a frequency increase. |
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Post by snoggle on May 4, 2016 9:27:16 GMT
Comments and replys to what you've said, other than these I agree with the comment 20: There seems to be so much excess capacity in Walthamstow and Leyton, that's why I thought that. 97: When increasing the 97, I was mainly thinking of the section wouth of Walthamstow which can be very busy. This don't normally happen to, but sometimes on Sundays the bus can be wiz past because it is so full. As with the northern section, I thought they can benefit from this as well as I can see this route with a lot of people on leaving Walthamstow towards Chingford. If this section will be overbused on the north of Walthamstow, I would reduce the 357 frequency (maybe to every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday) which I can never recall for years being full. 123: What is the difference between every 10 minutes and every 11 minutes? 275: People just say it needs a few extra peak buses, maybe why I thought it needs a frequency increase. Apologies to anyone who's going to see some old points being re-made. 20 - well I guessed you'd focussed on the WW end of things. There is a huge (former LCC) estate at the Debden end which generates local traffic to shops, schools etc. I'm not sure why they should be deprived on a reasonable bus local service. 97 - well if you want to give a gentle boost to the 97 on Sundays then that's fine. I agree buses can get very busy. Pushing up to every 6 mins is a big step up and I'm not sure it's warranted. The aim is surely to put resource where it is required - there may be marginally more sense in getting the 69 to run reliably or a bit more frequently to cope with the crowds on the Leyton - Walthamstow section. I don't believe in reducing the 357 - the fact it doesn't run full all the time means it can act like a sponge and mop up the crowds if there's a gap in the 97. 123 - I'm sorry to bore people but x10 stands a chance of providing a memorable timetable (buses should turn up a stop at mins past the hour you can remember). It also means that if the service varies in its actual regularity (due to all the normal stuff that happens) then the average wait time will be lower. One of the problems now is that if the service becomes irregular the gaps between buses get larger - I'm fed up to the back teeth of seeing 15, 16, 17, 20, 21 minute gaps on the daytime and peak service. Part of this is because the base frequency is x11 - if a bus is delayed by 50% of the headway the gaps is 16.5mins. If the headway was x10 it would be 15 mins. 15 is clearly lower than 16.5. The issue with going to x8 is that it would require an extra 6 minutes over the current peak PVR which is extremely expensive and there has not been the growth to warrant that. TfL have effectively said they're not going to increase the frequency. Yes the route is much busier but the longer VLAs help in part but reliability is the fundamental issue. Sundays definitely need a x12 service and have done for years. It's galling that TfL haven't provided it. I suspect the upcoming closure of the GOBLIN is going to affect the 123 quite badly as people change their travel patterns. It already gets hammered on Sundays when the line's closed. Just checked (1038) the buses due to Wood Green at my local stop - oh look 1 bus due, next bus 21 (bleepin) mins away. Yes yet again Arriva have a bus missing. Happens every weekday. A 21 minute gap is worse than the early Sunday morning headway. 275 - maybe the peak needs a look at but I'd be astonished if you needed anything more than 1 extra departure at the very height of the peak. |
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Post by 6HP502C on May 4, 2016 10:36:58 GMT
Some late evening and Sunday frequencies are certainly worth looking at. The 176 and 35 are often rammed heading out of London between 10pm until the end of the day bus service on most days of the week. The 176 has a 12 minute evening service, but is always packed with people doing longer distance journeys from the West End beyond Camberwell. Several times I haven't been able to board after getting off the tube at Waterloo or Elephant. It really needs a step, or even two step increase at this time of day. The 35's 15 minute evening frequency is worth boosting to 10 minutes out of Shoreditch on weekends as it gets packed prior to the night service kicking off. As vjaska has stated it's about the right time to give the night 37 a boost at every 20 minutes. I often see them running in 2s and 3s, even after midnight. Not sure if this is down to service control or if it's just keen drivers doing mileage runs on overtime. It really is a mystical kind of route. The 345 gets hammered between Peckham and Brixton during Sunday shopping/church hours. Also the East Dulwich corridor is a headache between 8-9am on weekdays. I would love to have the luxury to be able to choose to take a 185 to work in Victoria. The reality is, people have to pile on whichever bus is going towards London - often through the back doors - and change in Camberwell. Asides from this being a totally undignified way to commute to work, some mornings 7 buses have passed before there's any room to get on one  . It's a complete lottery and waiting times for any one route are terrible - fortunately not using the bus is an option for me and I walk to Denmark Hill and take the train instead. |
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Post by snoggle on May 4, 2016 16:11:04 GMT
Also the East Dulwich corridor is a headache between 8-9am on weekdays. I would love to have the luxury to be able to choose to take a 185 to work in Victoria. The reality is, people have to pile on whichever bus is going towards London - often through the back doors - and change in Camberwell. Asides from this being a totally undignified way to commute to work, some mornings 7 buses have passed before there's any room to get on one . It's a complete lottery and waiting times for any one route are terrible - fortunately not using the bus is an option for me and I walk to Denmark Hill and take the train instead.  So whatever capacity was added in Nov 2014 by hiking up the 176 and 185 peak frequencies has been gobbled up already? Goodness. |
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Post by bengady3 on May 4, 2016 16:23:48 GMT
356 Mon-Sat to 15min
202 Mon-Sat to 6-8min
124 Mon-Sat to 6min
197 Sunday to 12-15min
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Post by 6HP502C on May 4, 2016 17:01:25 GMT
Also the East Dulwich corridor is a headache between 8-9am on weekdays. I would love to have the luxury to be able to choose to take a 185 to work in Victoria. The reality is, people have to pile on whichever bus is going towards London - often through the back doors - and change in Camberwell. Asides from this being a totally undignified way to commute to work, some mornings 7 buses have passed before there's any room to get on one . It's a complete lottery and waiting times for any one route are terrible - fortunately not using the bus is an option for me and I walk to Denmark Hill and take the train instead. So whatever capacity was added in Nov 2014 by hiking up the 176 and 185 peak frequencies has been gobbled up already? Goodness. Pretty much. The only time I can get on a bus is if 4 of them turn up at once - then there's usually space to squeeze on through the back of one - that's if any of them stop! East Dulwich station has more people getting on buses than getting off in the mornings! The buses do empty out a fair bit at Denmark Hill station - now a super hub for trains going off in all manner of directions, though most have worse capacity issues than the buses. I thought Christmas had come early when I read the 42 was going to East Dulwich Sainsburys - until I realised it would be going via North Dulwich and not direct from Denmark Hill! That said, it will be a way to get a space on a bus towards Camberwell! Perhaps quicker than the direct route if waiting times are factored in. If enough buses to meet demand were provided, it might actually become attractive to use the service. There are probably hundreds of East Dulwich residents thinking the same thing, so any extra buses would soon fill up and the cycle would repeat until the roads become clogged with buses! |
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Post by YY13VKP on May 4, 2016 18:00:07 GMT
What bus routes would you increase or decrease the frequency of to more suit capacity and to what to? Please note, you must not make changes to the route. I would: 20: Reduced from every 15 mins to every 20 mins Monday to Saturday 58: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 86: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins on Sundays 97: Increased from every 8 mins to every 6 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 12-15 mins to every 10 mins Sundays and evenings. 123: Increased from every 11 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 158: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturdays and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins during evenings. Sunday frequency remains the same. 208: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 241: Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins during peak times and Saturday mornings and every 12 mins to every 15 mins during Weekday shopping hours. Times not mentioned to remain the same. 275: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. W16: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. Good topic! Can this include PVR increases? My ideas are: 434: Increased from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes on all days (seems to run by the same timetable even on a Sunday) and a PVR increase of +1 466: Increased from every 7-12 minutes to every 5-7 minutes. 403: Increased to every 5-7 minutes and a PVR increase of +5 |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 19:10:01 GMT
356 Mon-Sat to 15min
202 Mon-Sat to 6-8min
124 Mon-Sat to 6min
197 Sunday to 12-15min
Why would route 124 need to increased to a frequency like that with those small buses? |
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Post by bengady3 on May 4, 2016 19:11:58 GMT
356 Mon-Sat to 15min
202 Mon-Sat to 6-8min
124 Mon-Sat to 6min
197 Sunday to 12-15min
Why would route 124 need to increased to a frequency like that with those small buses? Its always busy |
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Post by ian on May 4, 2016 19:22:12 GMT
Route 251 desperately needs a peak-time boost or peak-time extras on an urgent basis - at some stops it is essentially impossible to get on or only by luck and squeezing in by the driver I guess there are other alternative courses of action, maybe for another thread...
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 19:27:12 GMT
I'm in broad agreement with the comments above. The 241 loads heavily towards the Stratford end and I don't think any reduction would be easily born by the 69 or 473, although the CT end of the route is relatively quiet much of the time. I know the 241 very well at the Stratford end and now thinking about it, maybe the peak frequency should remain the same as you can get people standing near to coming into Stratford. However, whenever I use the route during Weekday shopping hours towards Stratford, it is always fairly empty. Saturdays and Sundays are just matched right. The 241 is my local route and think it could easily have a reduced frequency in the evenings and Sundays it can carry fresh air in the evenings after 8pm, Could really do with a extension somewhere towards Hackney / Leyton. It used to be single decker on Sundays and still think it could cope like that now but those type of mixed operations have gone out of fashion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 19:39:02 GMT
I know the 241 very well at the Stratford end and now thinking about it, maybe the peak frequency should remain the same as you can get people standing near to coming into Stratford. However, whenever I use the route during Weekday shopping hours towards Stratford, it is always fairly empty. Saturdays and Sundays are just matched right. The 241 is my local route and think it could easily have a reduced frequency in the evenings and Sundays it can carry fresh air in the evenings after 8pm, Could really do with a extension somewhere towards Hackney / Leyton. It used to be single decker on Sundays and still think it could cope like that now but those type of mixed operations have gone out of fashion. On Sundays, it actually loads quite well. The every 20 minute frequency is quite low for bus routes in the area (Stratford end anyway). I think there are some times of the day where are busy and some that are not so busy at all. This could be partly due to it going a long way round between 2 major centres, meaning coming out of Stratford and Canning Town in the morning can be very clear, but vise versa in the evening. Route 241 is actually my most used route in the whole of London so I know quite a bit about it, although I have only used the southern section twice for a ride! |
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Post by Trident on May 4, 2016 19:43:46 GMT
What bus routes would you increase or decrease the frequency of to more suit capacity and to what to? Please note, you must not make changes to the route. I would: 20: Reduced from every 15 mins to every 20 mins Monday to Saturday 58: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 86: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins on Sundays 97: Increased from every 8 mins to every 6 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 12-15 mins to every 10 mins Sundays and evenings. 123: Increased from every 11 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 158: Increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins Monday to Saturdays and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins during evenings. Sunday frequency remains the same. 208: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 15 mins to every 12 mins Sundays and evenings. 241: Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins during peak times and Saturday mornings and every 12 mins to every 15 mins during Weekday shopping hours. Times not mentioned to remain the same. 275: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. W16: Increased from every 12 mins to every 10 mins Monday to Saturday and from every 20 mins to every 15 mins Sundays and evenings. The 158 does not need to be that frequent in between the peak hours, not as many people use it to justify a 8 minute headway. I would agree with you for the peak hours and Saturdays though. However still doubt running it too frequent in the evenings would work too. |
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. It's a complete lottery and waiting times for any one route are terrible - fortunately not using the bus is an option for me and I walk to Denmark Hill and take the train instead.
