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Post by snoggle on Sept 23, 2018 20:45:35 GMT
To be fair, both sides threw out lies during the referendum - it wasn’t just Leave who done so. As for Jack’s, this has nothing to do with Brexit and was created because Tesco wanted to claw back customers from Lidl & Aldi after losing some of their market share to them - apparently, Jack’s is pretty much cheaper than both though not by a lot and the quality of the products seems to be quite decent. Well this is politics and propaganda after all. One didn’t exactly expect confession-level truth from anyone ... one however does expect the likes of BoJo and Gove to show some semblance of responsibility. Right now, it seems like a bloody disaster. I am hoping that sense prevails everywhere and we have an orderly, structured solution... let’s see I think messrs farage and BoJo were all hoping for a narrow Brexit defeat - would have given them ample ammo for the future. They sort of went quiet and started playing pass the buck once they realised that work would actually need to be done to get Brexit done ... and that the onus was now on them!!! The problem, though, is that as far as that shambolic trio (and others) are concerned the onus is not on them and it never, ever was in their minds. They have been playing "shift the blame" ever since the vote and now we are heading over the precipice it will soon be the fault of those who voted to Remain. They need locking up for their lies and deceit but instead they'll make a bleepin' fortune out of everyone else's misfortune. Just wait for Tory conference and its aftermath - who will be the first to knife Mrs May and then who gets trampled in the rush to be Tory leader? May not be immediate but given it a couple of months for things to happen. May signalling she may opt for yet another general election is a desperate attempt on her part to cling to her position because you don't dump the party leader just before an election. If she loses then she resigns and disappears from view and probably breathes the biggest sigh of relief in history. If she was to win and have a working majority then she reasserts her position for a while and gets to frame a cabinet she can work with. If she barely wins and it's another hung parliament then she'll be axed in short order by the Tory Party. I guess it all depends on how venal she is. To be frank we really do not need a repeat of the utter utter shambles that was her 2017 election campaign. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 23, 2018 21:08:26 GMT
Time to find out about one of my grandfathers, about whom I know nothing, except that he may have come from Scotland - I'm hoping that might be Ireland, so I can claim an Irish passport. My wife's own researches uncovered an Irish grandmother, so I'm encouraging her to follow this up. Neither of us has ever been to Ireland, North or South, but that's irrelevant. We're too old and impoverished to consider emigration, but I've never been more tempted. Now I hear Esther McVey may be quitting the Cabinet. Wow, will the Earth stop spinning on its axis? How did that nonentity get promoted in the first place? Oh, I see, to make Grayling look good, perhaps the only way that could be achieved.
I'm a born optimist, and I consider that Brexit will be an unmitigated disaster - just imagine if I were a pessimist!
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Post by snoggle on Sept 23, 2018 23:44:42 GMT
I'm a born optimist, and I consider that Brexit will be an unmitigated disaster - just imagine if I were a pessimist! Yep - you'd be as horrible and pessimistic as I am!!    Now that's a fate worse than death. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 3:28:54 GMT
I don't care if people have to wait at customs, I don't care if a new car costs more, I dont care if prices go up etc etc. If anyone interpreted the brexit bus message that they would spend ALL that money on the NHS then they were retarded. Anyone with common sense knows it didn't mean all of it. I just want out and to throw away the key. I'm sick to death of the EU's demands, sick of immigration overload, our Britishness is becoming offensive. I want OUR country back and for US to make our laws. Why should the UK bend over with pants down and grease up ready for the big EU shafting. They're going to punish us for leaving yes..who cares but they'll sure as hell make it hell for us if we suddenly remain. Be prepared for mass riots if we're told were remaining.
Do remainers honestly think leavers would have made the big hoohaa song and dance the remoaners have made? No that's right we wouldn't because we're civilized.
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Post by sid on Sept 24, 2018 4:36:38 GMT
Time to find out about one of my grandfathers, about whom I know nothing, except that he may have come from Scotland - I'm hoping that might be Ireland, so I can claim an Irish passport. My wife's own researches uncovered an Irish grandmother, so I'm encouraging her to follow this up. Neither of us has ever been to Ireland, North or South, but that's irrelevant. We're too old and impoverished to consider emigration, but I've never been more tempted. Now I hear Esther McVey may be quitting the Cabinet. Wow, will the Earth stop spinning on its axis? How did that nonentity get promoted in the first place? Oh, I see, to make Grayling look good, perhaps the only way that could be achieved. I'm a born optimist, and I consider that Brexit will be an unmitigated disaster - just imagine if I were a pessimist! It's EU membership that has been the unmitigated disaster! |
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Post by sid on Sept 24, 2018 5:04:09 GMT
I don't care if people have to wait at customs, I don't care if a new car costs more, I dont care if prices go up etc etc. If anyone interpreted the brexit bus message that they would spend ALL that money on the NHS then they were retarded. Anyone with common sense knows it didn't mean all of it. I just want out and to throw away the key. I'm sick to death of the EU's demands, sick of immigration overload, our Britishness is becoming offensive. I want OUR country back and for US to make our laws. Why should the UK bend over with pants down and grease up ready for the big EU shafting. They're going to punish us for leaving yes..who cares but they'll sure as hell make it hell for us if we suddenly remain. Be prepared for mass riots if we're told were remaining. Do remainers honestly think leavers would have made the big hoohaa song and dance the remoaners have made? No that's right we wouldn't because we're civilized. I couldn't agree more, wasn't the unmitigated disaster supposed to commence immediately after the result was known? Two years on and there is still no sign of it just unmitigated project fear! The message on the side of the bus about NHS spending didn't actually promise anything, it was just a suggestion but some people read what they want to read. Ok it could be deemed misleading but no more so than the waffle that has come from the remain side. The way Theresa May was treated recently by the EU bullies says it all, they're going to make things as difficult as possible because they need us not the other way round. Deal or no deal, the sooner we're out the better! |
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Post by busman on Sept 24, 2018 9:15:32 GMT
It’s a disgrace that most of the leading Brexiteers who promised so much during the referendum campaign have all scarpered and are doing nothing to implement Brexit. However I think we need to walk away right now and conclude that we will leave with no deal. The EU has not shown a willingness to negotiate a deal that the UK would find acceptable and with the time remaining we need to focus our resource and efforts on no deal arrangements. I would prefer to remain in the EU, but as we are leaving I think that no deal is better than a bad deal. The arrogance of the EU during these negotiations has been breathtaking. Get out, keep the £39bn and don’t enforce or police any kind of border control in Ireland.
Labour are playing fast and loose with the future of our country by agitating for a general election at this point in time. The last thing we need right now is a general election which will only delay the inevitable. Besides voters rejected Vince Cable’s promise to reverse Brexit at the previous election.
What will be interesting is what will happen with Scotland post-Brexit. My fear is that there may be an appetite for a vote on full independence followed by application to join the EU.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 24, 2018 9:50:26 GMT
It’s a disgrace that most of the leading Brexiteers who promised so much during the referendum campaign have all scarpered and are doing nothing to implement Brexit. However I think we need to walk away right now and conclude that we will leave with no deal. The EU has not shown a willingness to negotiate a deal that the UK would find acceptable and with the time remaining we need to focus our resource and efforts on no deal arrangements. I would prefer to remain in the EU, but as we are leaving I think that no deal is better than a bad deal. The arrogance of the EU during these negotiations has been breathtaking. Get out, keep the £39bn and don’t enforce or police any kind of border control in Ireland. Labour are playing fast and loose with the future of our country by agitating for a general election at this point in time. The last thing we need right now is a general election which will only delay the inevitable. Besides voters rejected Vince Cable’s promise to reverse Brexit at the previous election. What will be interesting is what will happen with Scotland post-Brexit. My fear is that there may be an appetite for a vote on full independence followed by application to join the EU. The interesting thing for Scotland is that they will be worse off if they gain independence - a number of economic analysts have said that Scotland would actually suffer greatly with even possibly entering a recession and relying on the oil as a main stream of revenue isn't viable in the long term which would then be made worse when they join the EU and are forced to adopt the Euro. Going back to the Brexit debate, I'm quite tired of people on both sides arguing between each other because at the end of the day, both sides lied in their arguments so no can take the moral high ground but were we really expecting to get an honest debate anyway? For me, it boiled down to people's gut instinct and what they felt was right at the time - for me, I felt it right to vote Leave and I'll stick by that until I'm proven wrong somewhere down the line. What the negotiation process has shown is that a bunch of adults can not have progressive & mature conversations about negotiating the exit from the EU and it started with the EU demanding an absurd amount of money seemingly forgetting when they came begging to us to bail Greece & Ireland out as well as other occasions where Britain has invested in the EU. That reinforces what is so wrong with the EU personally - I hope for their sake no other countries need bailing out especially when many of the EU countries are not on solid ground financially. |
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Post by busman on Sept 24, 2018 9:58:56 GMT
vjaska People also say that the UK would be financially worse off if we leave the EU. Following Brexit, Scotland may just be sick and tired of being governed by politicians they did not elect. Inversely to the current UK situation, Scotland would have more autonomy as an independent country joining the EU, than being part of the Westminster devolved model. I think Scotland is perfectly capable of going solo. Just like Brexit, it won’t be plain sailing initially but they will manage.
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 24, 2018 10:34:25 GMT
vjaska People also say that the UK would be financially worse off if we leave the EU. Following Brexit, Scotland may just be sick and tired of being governed by politicians they did not elect. Inversely to the current UK situation, Scotland would have more autonomy as an independent country joining the EU, than being part of the Westminster devolved model. I think Scotland is perfectly capable of going solo. Just like Brexit, it won’t be plain sailing initially but they will manage. Some people say we will be better off. Oh and the Scots have to get permission from Westminster to hold another referendum, and seeing as referendums are supposed to be a once in a generation issue ... think they will be politely told it is too soon after the last one. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 24, 2018 12:28:45 GMT
I don't care if people have to wait at customs, I don't care if a new car costs more, I dont care if prices go up etc etc. If anyone interpreted the brexit bus message that they would spend ALL that money on the NHS then they were retarded. Anyone with common sense knows it didn't mean all of it. I just want out and to throw away the key. I'm sick to death of the EU's demands, sick of immigration overload, our Britishness is becoming offensive. I want OUR country back and for US to make our laws. Why should the UK bend over with pants down and grease up ready for the big EU shafting. They're going to punish us for leaving yes..who cares but they'll sure as hell make it hell for us if we suddenly remain. Be prepared for mass riots if we're told were remaining. Do remainers honestly think leavers would have made the big hoohaa song and dance the remoaners have made? No that's right we wouldn't because we're civilized. you ok there? Of course the EU are going to have demands if we wish to leave the EU, of course the EU divorce will cost millions, just like every other divorce will. What is so wrong with imigration? The United Kingdom had welcomed people from other countries for centuries, why is it such a big issue now? For centuries we have lived together, side by side, pie and mash shops next door to a Jewish Bakery, next door to an Indian takeaway etc etc. Its not "ruined" our Britishness, our "Britishness" is not becoming offensive. What is offensive is right-wing organizations like the BNP, Britains First, UKIP etc taking ownership of the Union Flag, making it a tool of their drive against people who may have a different skin colour or a different accent. The fact is, "our country" wouldn't be the country we all love if it wasn't for imigration. How can we complain about losing our "Britishness" because of imigration yet go to live in Spain and expect a full English Breakfast, British pubs, full Sunday roasts etc etc? We can't have it both ways! You say you want "our country" back, but we never lost our country to start with. I'm proud to be British but that doestmnt mean I can't be proud of multi-culturalism The sadest part of all this for me is now it seems acceptable to be intolerant towards other people, who may have a different skin tone or who may have a different accent. I have many colleagues, from all sorts of backgrounds, who are being told to "go home" on an almost daily basis. |
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Post by sid on Sept 24, 2018 13:28:26 GMT
I don't care if people have to wait at customs, I don't care if a new car costs more, I dont care if prices go up etc etc. If anyone interpreted the brexit bus message that they would spend ALL that money on the NHS then they were retarded. Anyone with common sense knows it didn't mean all of it. I just want out and to throw away the key. I'm sick to death of the EU's demands, sick of immigration overload, our Britishness is becoming offensive. I want OUR country back and for US to make our laws. Why should the UK bend over with pants down and grease up ready for the big EU shafting. They're going to punish us for leaving yes..who cares but they'll sure as hell make it hell for us if we suddenly remain. Be prepared for mass riots if we're told were remaining. Do remainers honestly think leavers would have made the big hoohaa song and dance the remoaners have made? No that's right we wouldn't because we're civilized. you ok there? Of course the EU are going to have demands if we wish to leave the EU, of course the EU divorce will cost millions, just like every other divorce will. What is so wrong with imigration? The United Kingdom had welcomed people from other countries for centuries, why is it such a big issue now? For centuries we have lived together, side by side, pie and mash shops next door to a Jewish Bakery, next door to an Indian takeaway etc etc. Its not "ruined" our Britishness, our "Britishness" is not becoming offensive. What is offensive is right-wing organizations like the BNP, Britains First, UKIP etc taking ownership of the Union Flag, making it a tool of their drive against people who may have a different skin colour or a different accent. The fact is, "our country" wouldn't be the country we all love if it wasn't for imigration. How can we complain about losing our "Britishness" because of imigration yet go to live in Spain and expect a full English Breakfast, British pubs, full Sunday roasts etc etc? We can't have it both ways! You say you want "our country" back, but we never lost our country to start with. I'm proud to be British but that doestmnt mean I can't be proud of multi-culturalism The sadest part of all this for me is now it seems acceptable to be intolerant towards other people, who may have a different skin tone or who may have a different accent. I have many colleagues, from all sorts of backgrounds, who are being told to "go home" on an almost daily basis.
Are you ok?
What's wrong with immigration you ask? Well in reasonable numbers nothing whatsoever. However if you live in a two up two down semi detached you don't invite all your family and friends round for a sleepover do you? Do you see my point? Are you aware of the housing crisis in this country?
I'm slightly puzzled as to why allowing illegal migrants to stroll in to the UK unhindered is a good idea? Should we even bother with borders at all? Obviously many people from overseas contribute greatly, I'm thinking not only of doctors and nurses but anybody else who has the skills that we are short of in the UK but do we really need an endless stream of unskilled workers when have a surplus as it is? How does allowing anyone from anywhere to come here at any time whatever their status, skillset or past actions may be help this society? I'm sure ISIS like the idea as do Putin and his cronies as well as most of the third World, I'm just not sure how it benefits the UK?
If I wanted to go and live in Australia I'd have to meet a certain criteria, is it unreasonable for a similar criteria to apply in the UK?
Oh and don't bring intolerance towards people of a different skin tone into it, that really is scraping the barrel. This is half the problem, anybody daring to object to an open door immigration policy is automatically deemed a racist, it isn't about race it's about the simple logistics of an over populated country and it goes without saying that telling people to "go home" is unacceptable.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 24, 2018 13:41:38 GMT
you ok there? Of course the EU are going to have demands if we wish to leave the EU, of course the EU divorce will cost millions, just like every other divorce will. What is so wrong with imigration? The United Kingdom had welcomed people from other countries for centuries, why is it such a big issue now? For centuries we have lived together, side by side, pie and mash shops next door to a Jewish Bakery, next door to an Indian takeaway etc etc. Its not "ruined" our Britishness, our "Britishness" is not becoming offensive. What is offensive is right-wing organizations like the BNP, Britains First, UKIP etc taking ownership of the Union Flag, making it a tool of their drive against people who may have a different skin colour or a different accent. The fact is, "our country" wouldn't be the country we all love if it wasn't for imigration. How can we complain about losing our "Britishness" because of imigration yet go to live in Spain and expect a full English Breakfast, British pubs, full Sunday roasts etc etc? We can't have it both ways! You say you want "our country" back, but we never lost our country to start with. I'm proud to be British but that doestmnt mean I can't be proud of multi-culturalism The sadest part of all this for me is now it seems acceptable to be intolerant towards other people, who may have a different skin tone or who may have a different accent. I have many colleagues, from all sorts of backgrounds, who are being told to "go home" on an almost daily basis.
Are you ok?
What's wrong with immigration you ask? Well in reasonable numbers nothing whatsoever. However if you live in a two up two down semi detached you don't invite all your family and friends round for a sleepover do you? Do you see my point? Are you aware of the housing crisis in this country?
I'm slightly puzzled as to why allowing illegal migrants to stroll in to the UK unhindered is a good idea? Should we even bother with borders at all? Obviously many people from overseas contribute greatly, I'm thinking of doctors and nurses and anybody else who has the skills that we are short of in the UK but do we really need an endless steam of unskilled workers when have a surplus as it is? How does allowing anyone from anywhere to come here at any time whatever their status, skillset or past actions may be help this society? I'm sure ISIS like the idea as do Putin and his cronies as well as most of the third World, I'm just not sure how it benefits the UK?
If I wanted to go and live in Australia I'd have to meet a certain criteria, is it unreasonable for a similar criteria to apply in the UK?
Oh and don't bring intolerance towards people of a different skin tone into it, that really is scraping the barrel. This isn't about race it's about the simple logistics of an over populated country and it goes without saying that telling people to "go home" is unacceptable.
Regarding the housing crisis, although immigration exasperated the problem, it wasn’t and isn’t the main reason why we have a crisis. Margaret Thatcher’s right to buy policy and many councils selling off of council housing into private landlords has been the biggest cause. |
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Post by sid on Sept 24, 2018 13:46:20 GMT
Are you ok?
What's wrong with immigration you ask? Well in reasonable numbers nothing whatsoever. However if you live in a two up two down semi detached you don't invite all your family and friends round for a sleepover do you? Do you see my point? Are you aware of the housing crisis in this country?
I'm slightly puzzled as to why allowing illegal migrants to stroll in to the UK unhindered is a good idea? Should we even bother with borders at all? Obviously many people from overseas contribute greatly, I'm thinking of doctors and nurses and anybody else who has the skills that we are short of in the UK but do we really need an endless steam of unskilled workers when have a surplus as it is? How does allowing anyone from anywhere to come here at any time whatever their status, skillset or past actions may be help this society? I'm sure ISIS like the idea as do Putin and his cronies as well as most of the third World, I'm just not sure how it benefits the UK?
If I wanted to go and live in Australia I'd have to meet a certain criteria, is it unreasonable for a similar criteria to apply in the UK?
Oh and don't bring intolerance towards people of a different skin tone into it, that really is scraping the barrel. This isn't about race it's about the simple logistics of an over populated country and it goes without saying that telling people to "go home" is unacceptable.
Regarding the housing crisis, although immigration exasperated the problem, it wasn’t and isn’t the main reason why we have a crisis. Margaret Thatcher’s right to buy policy and many councils selling off of council housing into private landlords has been the biggest cause. Yes that's a perfectly valid point about selling off council houses and not replacing them but as you've alluded to an open door immigration policy just exacerbates the problem. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 24, 2018 14:07:01 GMT
you ok there? Of course the EU are going to have demands if we wish to leave the EU, of course the EU divorce will cost millions, just like every other divorce will. What is so wrong with imigration? The United Kingdom had welcomed people from other countries for centuries, why is it such a big issue now? For centuries we have lived together, side by side, pie and mash shops next door to a Jewish Bakery, next door to an Indian takeaway etc etc. Its not "ruined" our Britishness, our "Britishness" is not becoming offensive. What is offensive is right-wing organizations like the BNP, Britains First, UKIP etc taking ownership of the Union Flag, making it a tool of their drive against people who may have a different skin colour or a different accent. The fact is, "our country" wouldn't be the country we all love if it wasn't for imigration. How can we complain about losing our "Britishness" because of imigration yet go to live in Spain and expect a full English Breakfast, British pubs, full Sunday roasts etc etc? We can't have it both ways! You say you want "our country" back, but we never lost our country to start with. I'm proud to be British but that doestmnt mean I can't be proud of multi-culturalism The sadest part of all this for me is now it seems acceptable to be intolerant towards other people, who may have a different skin tone or who may have a different accent. I have many colleagues, from all sorts of backgrounds, who are being told to "go home" on an almost daily basis.
Are you ok?
What's wrong with immigration you ask? Well in reasonable numbers nothing whatsoever. However if you live in a two up two down semi detached you don't invite all your family and friends round for a sleepover do you? Do you see my point? Are you aware of the housing crisis in this country?
I'm slightly puzzled as to why allowing illegal migrants to stroll in to the UK unhindered is a good idea? Should we even bother with borders at all? Obviously many people from overseas contribute greatly, I'm thinking of doctors and nurses and anybody else who has the skills that we are short of in the UK but do we really need an endless steam of unskilled workers when have a surplus as it is? How does allowing anyone from anywhere to come here at any time whatever their status, skillset or past actions may be help this society? I'm sure ISIS like the idea as do Putin and his cronies as well as most of the third World, I'm just not sure how it benefits the UK?
If I wanted to go and live in Australia I'd have to meet a certain criteria, is it unreasonable for a similar criteria to apply in the UK?
Oh and don't bring intolerance towards people of a different skin tone into it, that really is scraping the barrel. This isn't about race it's about the simple logistics of an over populated country and it goes without saying that telling people to "go home" is unacceptable.
How is it scraping the barrel? Its a sad fact that Brexit and the rise of the right-wing has seen an increase in intolerance towards skin colour and different accents, I was not suggesting for a moment that anyone here was of that mindset. The housing crisis is down to a lack of investment in social housing through generations of governments and the ability for council Tennants to buy their council home for next to nothing (yet another Tory policy.) With regards to the "open door policy" we've had an open door for centuries, leaving the EU isnt going to change that As for tackling Diesh, Putin and the like, surely we're better in Europe rather than on the outside? I've yet to hear any good reason for the UK to leave the EU, especially if it turns out to be a "No Deal" Brexit. I've yet to see any good reason why the UK should cast itself out on its own. |
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Now that's a fate worse than death. 
