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Post by ronnie on Dec 14, 2019 23:11:03 GMT
Leaving aside my reasons for wishing we could have stayed in the EU, I had 2 reasons for wanting a People's Vote: Firstly, it was not government policy to leave the EU at the time, meaning that how we leave and what agreement we had with the EU was not defined. Secondly, assuming that Brexit happened in January 2020 (which it now surely will), it meant that voters born between June 1998 and January 2002 were being disenfranchised from the democratic process regarding EU membership or lack of it. This, despite the fact that they will have to live with this longer than the rest of us.  What is fairer now is that the government have negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement and offered themselves for re-election with this as an election pledge. The current electorate had a choice of parties with different Brexit policies. Abstainers could have taken the trouble to vote for pro-EU parties, and more pro-EU voters could have voted tactically had they so wanted. To be fair to the Conservatives, they listened to the public following the 2016 result, they took the time to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement, and even put themselves up for re-election on the basis of this Agreement (and other issues too). Regardless of my disappointment, I concede that implementing this Brexit now is inevitable and is fairer democratically than without this General Election. That said, I am still focussing my range of bus trips across the country on the basis of at least 60% being based on Remain boroughs!  We already had a peoples that and that was the referendum, I can see a second referendum giving a stronger result to leave. Remoaners just cannot accept defeat, people are fedup of the EU, leftist polices and cant stand being dictated on everything and do not want a backward communist regime. Remoaners just make so much noise and think that everyone is behind them, but leavers may be silent in public etc, but when it comes to the polls, they would make their voice heard.
Once you have had a referendum, no matter how unpalatable the result - its should have been fairly obvious to the remain side and various politicians is to have for things done pertaining to Brexit in a proper fashion resulting in maximum benefits for all. Instead, what we have witnessed is just one-Upmanship and a lack of respect to people’s votes. This isn’t exactly a best KF 4 or 5 to get leave / remain sorted is it.... |
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Post by kenmet on Dec 14, 2019 23:37:14 GMT
Leaving aside my reasons for wishing we could have stayed in the EU, I had 2 reasons for wanting a People's Vote: Firstly, it was not government policy to leave the EU at the time, meaning that how we leave and what agreement we had with the EU was not defined. Secondly, assuming that Brexit happened in January 2020 (which it now surely will), it meant that voters born between June 1998 and January 2002 were being disenfranchised from the democratic process regarding EU membership or lack of it. This, despite the fact that they will have to live with this longer than the rest of us. What is fairer now is that the government have negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement and offered themselves for re-election with this as an election pledge. The current electorate had a choice of parties with different Brexit policies. Abstainers could have taken the trouble to vote for pro-EU parties, and more pro-EU voters could have voted tactically had they so wanted. To be fair to the Conservatives, they listened to the public following the 2016 result, they took the time to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement, and even put themselves up for re-election on the basis of this Agreement (and other issues too). Regardless of my disappointment, I concede that implementing this Brexit now is inevitable and is fairer democratically than without this General Election. That said, I am still focussing my range of bus trips across the country on the basis of at least 60% being based on Remain boroughs! We had a people's vote and there was no rational case for having another one, having said that the general election was effectively a second referendum and as we know the party promising to get Brexit done romped home and the party promising to revoke article 50 came nowhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 13:57:13 GMT
Leaving aside my reasons for wishing we could have stayed in the EU, I had 2 reasons for wanting a People's Vote: Firstly, it was not government policy to leave the EU at the time, meaning that how we leave and what agreement we had with the EU was not defined. Secondly, assuming that Brexit happened in January 2020 (which it now surely will), it meant that voters born between June 1998 and January 2002 were being disenfranchised from the democratic process regarding EU membership or lack of it. This, despite the fact that they will have to live with this longer than the rest of us. What is fairer now is that the government have negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement and offered themselves for re-election with this as an election pledge. The current electorate had a choice of parties with different Brexit policies. Abstainers could have taken the trouble to vote for pro-EU parties, and more pro-EU voters could have voted tactically had they so wanted. To be fair to the Conservatives, they listened to the public following the 2016 result, they took the time to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement, and even put themselves up for re-election on the basis of this Agreement (and other issues too). Regardless of my disappointment, I concede that implementing this Brexit now is inevitable and is fairer democratically than without this General Election. That said, I am still focussing my range of bus trips across the country on the basis of at least 60% being based on Remain boroughs! I respect your position my only question is where would it stop. Would we have to rerun a referendum every four years for groups that weren’t old enough to vote at the time. It was a once in a lifetime vote and we all will live with the consequences. That said I voted leave and would again today if given the opportunity. |
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Post by busman on Dec 19, 2019 14:10:16 GMT
It’s over and done with now. I hope Johnson and our government pass the current deal quickly and are able to negotiate a great trade deal by the end of 2020. If our PM succeeds in this, then we all win. Even though I’m a Remainer, I’m so pleased we avoided a hung parliament. Revoke A50 or implement the deal. Don’t ever be stuck in the middle. That’s a life lesson, that Labour ought not to have been caught out by. We can now get Brexit behind us and move on. Onwards and upwards, the world is still spinning 😉
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Post by N230UD on Dec 24, 2019 18:47:23 GMT
It’s over and done with now. I hope Johnson and our government pass the current deal quickly and are able to negotiate a great trade deal by the end of 2020. If our PM succeeds in this, then we all win. Even though I’m a Remainer, I’m so pleased we avoided a hung parliament. Revoke A50 or implement the deal. Don’t ever be stuck in the middle. That’s a life lesson, that Labour ought not to have been caught out by. We can now get Brexit behind us and move on. Onwards and upwards, the world is still spinning 😉 Indeed, I hope the deal gets sorted quickly, and I really hope we don't get a no-deal, but hopefully that is unlikely now. Also, as the Tories have a majority, Boris won't have to pander to the far-right, and won't be under pressure from the ERG within the Tories. That's my only positive hopes anyway! But I refuse to believe that we will just get Brexit behind us, or "Get Brexit Done" anytime soon. It's going to take many months or years to sort everything out. It's not quite as simple as 'just leaving' as many would like to believe. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 17, 2020 2:31:35 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 2, 2021 12:55:52 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 13:47:19 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country. I work in container shipping, trust me it was never going to be doomsday. Most businesses prepared for this and those that didn’t were moronic. Even last week I laughed off those idiotic people complaining about fruit and veg short as they didn’t seem to understand quite how it works with fruit and veg shipped from aboard. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 2, 2021 14:19:09 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country. I work in container shipping, trust me it was never going to be doomsday. Most businesses prepared for this and those that didn’t were moronic. Even last week I laughed off those idiotic people complaining about fruit and veg short as they didn’t seem to understand quite how it works with fruit and veg shipped from aboard. I could not understand it, but then again its 2020, if people were fighting each other for toilet paper for a disease that affects your breathing etc. then people raiding the shelves for perishable fruit & veg didn't surprise me at how nuts some people could be. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2021 0:19:44 GMT
I work in container shipping, trust me it was never going to be doomsday. Most businesses prepared for this and those that didn’t were moronic. Even last week I laughed off those idiotic people complaining about fruit and veg short as they didn’t seem to understand quite how it works with fruit and veg shipped from aboard. I could not understand it, but then again its 2020, if people were fighting each other for toilet paper for a disease that affects your breathing etc. then people raiding the shelves for perishable fruit & veg didn't surprise me at how nuts some people could be. And to think what would happen if we did it in the war years...honestly these panic buyers are so selfish. |
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Post by N230UD on Jan 6, 2021 18:02:41 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country. Yes, it is good things have gone smoothly so far. It is early days yet though, and it will take a while to see the full effects. There is already lots of extra bureaucracy for haulage firms (I thought Brexit was all about cutting red tape, but anyway...), and the British passport has less rights on it then before. We may not be a third world country, but this is reducing our position in the world. Things haven’t gone quiet, and won’t do for years. But I’m glad some of the more extreme predictions of Brexit haven’t come true. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 6, 2021 23:52:48 GMT
i did never think it would have gone the way the remoaners made it out to be. After all the same way the UK went into the EU or EEC back then, many had did not want it and believed it to be the end of the UK we would be speaking a foreign language etc. the monarchy would end, all the usual scare mongering.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 7, 2021 0:42:18 GMT
i did never think it would have gone the way the remoaners made it out to be. After all the same way the UK went into the EU or EEC back then, many had did not want it and believed it to be the end of the UK we would be speaking a foreign language etc. the monarchy would end, all the usual scare mongering. Not saying it was bound to be a disaster, but I think the fact travel from the UK is banned to most European countries had an impact on this. The real test will probably be this Summer if the Pandemic is under control. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 9, 2021 5:59:49 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country. Yes, it is good things have gone smoothly so far. It is early days yet though, and it will take a while to see the full effects. There is already lots of extra bureaucracy for haulage firms (I thought Brexit was all about cutting red tape, but anyway...), and the British passport has less rights on it then before. We may not be a third world country, but this is reducing our position in the world. Things haven’t gone quiet, and won’t do for years. But I’m glad some of the more extreme predictions of Brexit haven’t come true. I am likewise relieved that UK & EU politicians have pulled together to agree a Withdrawal Agreement and Trade Agreement. The former safeguards the open border in Ireland, while the latter helps us with among other things imports of food. This (and another reason which could look patronising on a forum) persuaded me to abandon my target of 60% of bus trips to be Remain area based in both halves of the year in favour of just 55% across the year as a whole.  |
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Post by snowman on Jan 9, 2021 8:04:38 GMT
Well, seems many have gone quiet at all the so called doomsday projections of Brexit and what would have happened. The ports would come to a standstill, the pound would be worth nothing; in a sense it was made out that the UK would have end up being a third world country. Yes, it is good things have gone smoothly so far. It is early days yet though, and it will take a while to see the full effects. There is already lots of extra bureaucracy for haulage firms (I thought Brexit was all about cutting red tape, but anyway...), and the British passport has less rights on it then before. We may not be a third world country, but this is reducing our position in the world. Things haven’t gone quiet, and won’t do for years. But I’m glad some of the more extreme predictions of Brexit haven’t come true. Clearly all the extra forms and red tape are somewhere between a disaster and expensive. Just spotted price of something nice we wanted for the home has gone up, guess the increased costs are being passed onto consumer Am I glad an agreement was reached, only in the sense that it was better than no deal, but is still lot worse than cancelling Brexit. One of the things having moved to the country, is that local news reporters still exist, and it is already clear that a couple of local firms that export expect to have to close now, as their EC customers would have to do extra paperwork compared to buying from another EC country. The so called non tariff penalty (which Boris said before Christmas his deal had removed, a blatant BoJo lie) is going to kill some business. I suspect in London Coronavirus is dominating local news so business problems not really newsworthy yet. So with ports only seeing about 40% of usual truck trade this week, too early to estimate long term effects, but I am of the opinion that UK has lost any remaining world status, due to Brexit, and will be a struggling almost bankrupt country by end of 2021 |
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