|
Post by N230UD on Jul 10, 2017 21:53:39 GMT
I used to live in the 'Epping Forest' area of Essex, so still have a bit of an interest in the area. Waltham Abbey, just over the London border, seems to be having a lot of cutbacks recently and the future doesn't look bright for bus operations in the town. When you look at Waltham Abbey on a map, it would look like it would have decent public transport - close proximity to other sizeable towns, and closeness to London. As many of you know, the long-standing route 505 (Chingford-Harlow) was reduced to a measly Saturday only service using just one bus. I think that route could have the potential for commuters - a direct(ish) route to Chingford Station, to the first stop of the Overground - so a higher change you will get a seat. No chance of that now! It will be interesting to see how long the Saturday-only service will last. If ever a M-F service was brought back, many of the regular passengers would have probably found another way to travel about. Currently Essex County Council are consulting for withdrawal of the 250 and 251 evening services between Waltham Cross and Loughton/Debden (the daytime service is EOS London's commercial 66), the only evening services which operate in Waltham Abbey. This would mean the last buses from Waltham Cross (for the rail connections) to Waltham Abbey would be 19.35 (251) and 20.18 (66), compared to the current 23.34 departure on route 251. Not particularly great if you work in London, or have a late shift. If the people of Waltham Abbey used the Central Line from Loughton to go to London, the current last bus back on route 250 is at 22.33. If the 250 was withdrawn, the last bus is on route 66 at 19.47. There is a campaign from EFTAG (Epping Forest Transport Action Group) to retain this evening service. But thats not all. In the latest Essex tenders, which begin from August 2017, some tenders have not been awarded, and instead put on a list of routes "....exceeding £5 cost per passenger journey that are to be withdrawn, considered for withdrawal or low cost alternative being investigated" (See here - www.essexhighways.org/uploads/files/Getting%20Around/Bus/Not-Awarded-Tenders-May-2017.pdf. That list includes the 211/212 (Waltham Cross to W. Abbey - Roundhills and Breach Barns) a Mon-Sat service, 213 (Waltham Cross to Epping via W. Abbey), an hourly Mon-Sat service It also includes the Sunday service of the 250 mentioned above - thankfully EOS still operate the 66 commercially on a Sunday. On Sundays, that leaves the 251 (hourly) and 66 (roughly hourly). Thinking about it, 2 buses an hour isn't too bad for W. Abbey. The only positives for Waltham Abbey seem to be EOS London. They do give the impression that they are trying very hard to improve services there, and have a strong social media presence. The 66 and 86 routes they operate, both passing through Waltham Abbey appear to be reasonably successful. I'm glad i'm not a bus user living in Waltham Abbey. My options would be rather limited.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jul 8, 2017 21:56:29 GMT
The consultation has been extended and now carries proposed timetables for the changes. One thing you didn't mention was the 89 which currently drops straight into Dover from Whitfield is proposed to do a grand tour via St. Radigunds, River and Temple Ewell to replace the 60/A before reaching Whitfield. Moz Yes, I noticed that rather grand tour! It certainly wouldn't make the service more attractive for residents of the affected villages, and would make the car seem much more attractive. Also, have you seen the proposed Saturday service for the 89? It looks awful! There is a possibility they may not withdraw the 15B, according to the local MP (although, not really sure I believe what an MP says). ".....Stagecoach have now promised to rethink scrapping route 15B, which would leave River residents sitting on a bus for an hour-and-a-half just to get to Canterbury. They also said they would reconsider changes at Eastry, which would be left with only an hourly service. And they pledged to hold talks with Kent County Council about ensuring villages left without any buses continue to get a bus service." I wonder if this MP has ever traveled on one of the local buses. Hmmm... Well, that quote was from this local news article.... www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/bus-service-cuts---think-128318/Where he mentions Eastry (just outside Sandwich) only getting an hourly service... well, an hourly service would still be pretty decent for a village of that size.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jul 8, 2017 21:50:03 GMT
I suppose for many the 15 would be preferable to the train with a fast run up the A2 and a more convenient location in Canterbury? Certainly buses in and around Canterbury seem generally busy, especially 'The Breeze' and the triangle service. Yes, after the village of Lydden, it is direct to Canterbury. It is more convenient for the people of Dover, as many people are probably closer to a bus stop, rather than the railway stations at Dover Priory or Kearsney. The trains stop at Canterbury East station, which is in a good position in Canterbury, just outside the city walls. However, the bus station is even better located in the city (Also, the bus station is much nicer than the majority of bus stations i've visted in the UK, i.e. it doesn't stink of pee and isn't covered in graffiti). I imagine the season tickets on the bus are cheaper than the train as well, although I haven't looked at that. One positive is the train though, is the last train from Canterbury to Dover is at 00.56. The last bus is at 23.30 (which is still very good for a bus service!). Yes, the Triangle has seemingly been very successful. From my observations, particularly the Whitstable to Canterbury section. It almost feels like a London service, in terms of stopping at almost every stop for passengers. Its better than a London service though, as it has wifi and USB charging points. Breeze has done well too, but I think the Triangle is probably busier (just from my observations, I have no evidence to back that up!).
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jun 20, 2017 22:09:20 GMT
I agree about the 14, I've done it a few times on a double decker, certainly clobbers a few tree branches but a great ride. Last time I did the 15 it left Canterbury with a near full load but had pretty much emptied out by Dover. The 15 is certainly one of their success stories. If you look at timetables from the 1990s and 'Noughties', the frequency was hourly (and 2 hourly at one stage I believe), and also had variations to serve villages along the way. The route is now every 15 minutes for the most part of the day, with packed buses in the peaks. Until recently, some journeys were duplicated, but is no longer needed since more double-dealers became available. As Sid says though, this success is largely confined to the Dover to Canterbury section. To bit on to Deal is not so busy, and even less so since the 12 was introduced, giving Deal and Walmer a more direct bus to Canterbury I've also heard the 15 has had an impact on the Southeastern line between Canterbury and Dover, which is less frequent than the bus now.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jun 17, 2017 23:27:19 GMT
I'm not sure how many of you have an interest in bus operations of East Kent, but Stagecoach South East have released a consultation regarding services in the Dover district of Kent, mostly affecting Dover, Deal, Sandwich and surrounding villages, which can be seen here: tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/South%20East/consultation%20document%20-%20proposed%20Dover%20area%20changes.pdfPredictably, it is mostly negative changes being proposed, such as reduction of frequencies, and withdrawal of routes from rural villages. Main points I have picked up: * Route 14 (Canterbury - Sandwich - Deal) withdrawn. This route largely follows Route 13, but serves more rural villages. The villages of Staple, Northbourne, Great Mongeham will lose their bus service (apart from school journeys). I've used the route many times, and the 14 does pick people up from these villages. Probably not enough to make any money, but it means these people will all have to find another form of transport. From an enthusiasts point of view, I will be sad to see this route go. It is a very rural route, and is mostly operated by double-deckers, going down narrow country lanes. For those of you who enjoy rural double-decker routes, I suggest visiting East Kent before its withdrawn! * Routes 87/88 (Dover - Sandwich - Ramsgate) withdrawn. The Sandwich-Ramsgate section will be replaced. However, the Sandwich-Dover section will be replaced by a route which goes via Deal, which will certainly add a lot of time to the journey, as this was a direct route between the two towns (albeit not a hugely well used route). * Route 15 will only operate between Canterbury and Dover, losing its extension to St. Margarets, Walmer and Deal. This is perhaps a wise move as Route 12 (introduced only a few years ago), gives a direct route between Deal/Walmer and Canterbury, avoiding Dover. It does mean that St. Margarets (one of the closest points to France, if you're interested) will lose its direct bus to Canterbury. Also the 15B will be withdrawn, meaning the River suburb of Dover will also lose its direct Canterbury bus. * Deal will have a local network of routes again. Currently, the 13, 14 and 15 routes operate through the estates (in addition to local route 82). These will be replaced by a few local routes, which will no doubt be inter-worked. This takes Deal back to the 1990s when it had its own local routes. * The 'Wave' reduced in frequency from every 15 to every 20 minutes. This is just after the route was relaunched with new buses fairly recently. Although I do feel a 20 minute frequency is better suited to this route. (the 15 min frequency section of the Wave is only between New Romney and Dover). I will be looking with interest to see which of these proposed changes actually go ahead. Even if these changes are necessary to avoid Stagecoach losing lots of money, it will cause a lot of disruption for some people, and I doubt it will make them popular! Over the last 10 years or so, the East Kent area has had improved frequencies, new faster/direct routes, increased passenger numbers, seemingly bucking the trend for the declining UK bus usage. However, these changes seem to suggest things are no longer so great. However, hopefully it may just be confined to the Dover district - it is a more rural area than Stagecoach's other areas in East Kent, and passenger numbers arn't usually as high as in places such as Margate, Canterbury, Ashford for example - thats from my observations anyway. Not much time has been given to get replies for this consultation. It was released last week, and people have until 26th June to respond.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jun 16, 2017 18:23:53 GMT
Kent County Council have funded 3 return journeys, on Mon-Fri off-peak, on Go-Coach route 431. The 431 already exists with schoolday-only journeys, as i'm sure many of you already know. Its hardly an ideal replacement, and I wonder how long it will last, but its better than nothing, and its good to see KCC funding it despite a tight budget. I'm quite surprised anything has been funded at all. The timetable is not yet on Traveline, although there is a message (on the existing Go Coach 431 timetable) stating about the new off peak journeys, and the timetable will be on Traveline from 22nd July. The timetable can however been seen on the Knockholt Parish Council website, as seen here.... www.knockholtparish.org.uk/shared/attachments.asp?f=01531dcc-427e-4e53-a5fa-11010745da56%2Epdf
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on May 18, 2017 22:07:36 GMT
There is an article about this in the latest Buses magazine. Sittingbourne is a small town, so I wonder if this service will become popular. I hope it does, otherwise companies such as Uber will fill the gaps.
In the same magazine, there is also a news item about Mercedes Sprinter City 45 vehicles (the same as Stagecoach's in Ashford), on Guildford local route 3. With that route, the Sprinters are ordinary, with normal livery, and the frequency of the service has remained at every 20 mins.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on May 18, 2017 21:51:06 GMT
Its slightly relevant, but it may interest some of you.
There is (or more likely, was) an old bus stop at the very north of Chigwell High Road, near the 'Rolls Park Corner' roundabout, which connects to the M11 junction at Debden, and the A113 to Abridge. I remember seeing it through my childhood and teens (about 10 years ago), and seem to remember it as an old-LT bus stop, with a 'TownLink' sticker at the bottom (TownLink being the local operator at the time, based in Harlow, and now Arriva), although it was probably more likely a normal bus stop, and not LT. I believe buses stopped running along there in the late 1990s/early 2000s, that part of Chigwell not exactly good bus territory. It could have been an old LT stop, as that was the route of the original 10, but I might be letting my imagination run wild. Having a look on Google Streetview, I cant find it, so I suspect its been nicked or just taken down. If you look on Streetview, you can see a lamppost, and a short piece of pavement along a grass verge, which looks very much like an old bus stop, so that is probably where it was.
While i'm at it, I also remember a bus stop with a 'Bordabus' sticker at the bottom of it, along the A1112 Romford Road at Chigwell Row/Hainault. Bordabus was an operator based in Abridge which did run infrequent services into Romford in the 1980s/90s (I think). Having a look on Google Streetview, dated July 2016, its surprisingly still there. Its an old concrete bus stop (increasingly rare across the country these days), including the old flag. Its where the Romford Road meets the New North Road (which the 247 and 362 turn into). I don't visit this area anymore since moving to Kent, so it may have been removed since then.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on May 16, 2017 21:05:29 GMT
It sucks that in this day and age, with our pollution problems growing ever worse, that things like this continue to happen. Welcome to living in a country that wouldn't know an effective transport policy if one walked up and kicked it in the goolies. It's a wonder any of our transport works given how shambolic the policy framework is. Its a generalisation, but transport policies in some European countries appear much more "joined up" than the UK.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on May 10, 2017 22:22:54 GMT
I have come across the Kings Hill batch of routes in the Maidstone area. I love the X1/X2 commuter style bus idea. I wonder if it's well used. For once a new development has been designed to receive bus priority/have appropriate roads for buses to run through, unlike in London. Whenever i've been to King's Hill, buses have carried mostly fresh air, although i've only ever been at off-peak times. I have no idea what its like at busier times. The new X1/X2 service seems quite good. Seeing as its main aim is giving a good connection between King's Hill and the nearest railway station (West Malling), i'm quite surprised to see the terrible train connections during off-peak times -for example, the trains are roughly every half an hour, but some buses arrive just as a train is leaving. Both services give a combined 30-min frequency to West Malling Station, but the X1 continues hourly to Maidstone, direct down the M20, which is great - Hopefully it becomes popular, and gets a more attractive frequency.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on May 10, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
I found that Stagecoach South provide a good little network of routes along the Kent coast, with their 100/101/102 services Sorry to be pedantic, but the 100/101/102 "Wave" services are operated by Stagecoach South East. Stagecoach South are Hampshire/Surrey/West Sussex. I've yet to experience much of Stagecoach South, but was impressed when using their 700 Coastliner and new 715 route. They seem to be a decent subsidiary. Stagecoach South East have a good network, and I think are a lot better than many other areas. Patronage is quite decent, and has risen a large amount within the last 10-15 years. Their 'Triangle' route and Thanet 'Loop' route often feel like a London service - good frequency, stopping at almost every stop, busy buses. Other main routes have also seen many improvements, for example the Gold 16, the Breeze 8, and the 15 route. About 10 years ago, the 16 (Canterbury-Folkestone) had an hourly frequency - its now every 15 minutes on Mon-Sat daytimes with quite a good evening and Sunday service. I'm quite surprised some of their routes are so successful, and wonder if other operators would have such good frequencies and hours of operation - the "Wave" 100.101.102 routes along the southern Kent coast spring to mind, as it is a very long route and lot of the mileage goes through fairly desolate areas, but still a half-hourly frequency is maintained with new high-spec double-deck buses. Some of the more rural services are not as great as they were in the past, but the same is happening everywhere as we become more car-dependent, but its still better than some areas of the country. With West Sussex and Kent councils cutting back, Stagecoach have managed to save a lot of the at-risk bus services by operating some of the contracted journeys/routes commercially. Of course, some of the negative locals often moan about them, being the "worst bus services in the country", "expensive", "never on time", but those sort of people are never happy. The prices are not what I would call cheap, but I wouldn't say they were expensive. But there are a lot of ex-Londoners living here who are of course used to highly subsidised buses in a highly populated area. Stagecoach South East are not perfect. For example, there are still quite a few drivers with an "old school" style of customer service (i.e. none), but most drivers are pleasant and I am generally impressed with their services. I dont have a huge amount of experience of buses outside of London, Essex and Kent, but have been impressed with Brighton, Oxford, Cambridge (all large university towns). I've not been very impressed with Great Yarmouth (First), Chelmsford (First), or South-West Essex - although it seems those areas have seen some (minor) improvements.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Feb 23, 2017 18:14:49 GMT
From my observations in Ashford on a weekday last week, the service is mostly popular with local residents - many of them saying this to the drviers. Leg room is an issue for some seats, but I had no problems where I was sitting. There are also flip-down seats at the front where there would be plently of legroom. They might not have the best legroom, but most people won't be travelling on them for long, and the seats are far more comfortable than the 'breadvans' of the 80s and 90s.
The drivers mostly had excellent customer service - they obviously haven't taken the bad habits of the 'old school' drivers. I spoke to one of the driversand he much prefers the minibuses to big buses. They are easier to manoeuvre around parked cars, and easier to keep to time in, and generally less stressful to drive. He did point out to me that he wonders what they will be like in summer - they have no opening passenger windows and no air-con.
There was bunching (not helped by countless roadworks happening during the school half-term), but surely this is inevitable on a service like this? Obviously Stagecoach will be trying their best to reduce it, but even with the bunching I didn't have to wait too long for a bus at all. Bearing in mind the frequency for the 'B' route to Park Farm is tripled, so even with bunching the service is a vast improvement.
There were controllers at Bank Street (the main town centre interchange) doing their best to avoid late running and bunching.
I really hope Stagecoach do well with this, it seems to be going ok so far. I'm not sure if other towns would do well with these minibuses. Ashford is quite unique in some ways. I wonder if they will be later introduced in Canterbury (if Ashford goes well of course) - the local routes are mostly short, routes aren't hugely busy and there is an increase of London commuters due to the High Speed, however routes can suddenly get packed due to the countless amount of schools in Canterbury.
Also interesting to note - this change also involved new ticket machines for the minibuses, and also the rest of the Ashford-based fleet, enabling contactless debit card payments, which is a huge benefit. It also means routes to Faversham, Canterbury, Maidstone, Tenterden, Hastings etc, where Ashford vehicles reach get this benefit. I believe it is gradually being rolled out across East Kent.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Dec 17, 2016 0:32:18 GMT
We've debated this before. I suspect there isn't much of a market for a bus service between Chingford and Waltham Abbey. It's never been frequently served and with an unreliable service at times no one in their right mind would rely on it. Whatever market there might have been at some point was lost long ago. The fact there is substantial new housing and some industrial units on the ring road south of the M25 should provide a basis for at least a local bus link from Waltham Abbey and Waltham Cross but I suspect that's a forlorn hope as everyone living and working there will rely on cars because no service has ever run despite bays for stops having been constructed. I'm not surprised Trustybus are giving up on the 505. TfL won't back fill especially with the 215 running to / from the Campsite permanently from the new contract in March next year. I imagine some people in Sewardstone might walk to / from the Camp Site if they're desperate enough.
I think with more investment, the Waltham Abbey-Chingford link could become popular again. But, quite understandably, I doubt anyone would be willing to invest there. I also doubt Essex County Council will fund a Mon-Fri service, judging by all the cut backs throughout the country, and I predict the Saturday service will disappear at the end of the contract.
I think I know where you are talking about in Waltham Abbey with the new housing and industrial units - that's the A121 Meridian Way, and in fact there was a bus service along there but I think it only lasted a couple of years. I can't find anything online at the moment, but if memory serves me well, it was the 253 which operated between Waltham Cross and Waltham Abbey via Meridian Way, with Arriva Shires & Essex Mercedes Varios. I remember seeing a photo of a Vario with Sainsbury's branding as I think they funded it (theres a big Sainsbury's distribution centre there).
Its not just the 505 - bus services in that area of Essex seem pretty dismal compared to other parts of the country. I regularly travel on buses in London and East Kent, where passenger numbers are very strong in places, and its quite a contrast when I visit Essex.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Dec 16, 2016 20:39:53 GMT
So at the end of this month, the long standing route 505 from Chingford to Harlow via Waltham Abbey will no longer operate on Mondays to Fridays, leaving just a pretty rubbish Saturday service.
Currently the Monday to Friday service (much reduced from its Arriva days) is operated commercially, while the identical Saturday service is operated under contract to Essex County Council. There are just 6 journeys from Chingford.
I have no idea what passenger numbers are like on the service now, but I went on the route quite a lot a few years ago and it had fairly good passenger loadings. I remember the Chingford-Waltham Abbey section being fairly good, and also the Waltham Abbey to Harlow section with every seat taken. This was before there was competition on the Waltham Abbey-Harlow section (currently EOS route 86 competes on this section). I wonder how many people would be using the service between Waltham Abbey and Chingford now if it was still an hourly service? I also wonder why there isn't demand from Waltham Abbey to Chingford?
Just having a Saturday service is rather pointless. I can imagine passenger numbers further decreasing, as existing passengers may just get used to travelling another way (i.e TfL 397 to Loughton, then EOS 66 to Waltham Abbey).
I do wonder if a bus service operating Chingford - Waltham Abbey - Waltham Cross could be popular (I believe the 242 operated like this way back when it was a London Buses service). But I'd imagine it would definitely be too much out of London for TfL to operate, or too much in London (with TfL bus stations at both ends) for a commercial operator.
|
|