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Post by snoggle on Oct 30, 2018 16:55:13 GMT
On the matter of people not knowing about the rail link, well, what to say? i'm not disagreeing, I just bang my head head against the wall the way that information on public transport has been and still is so fragmented. The ubiquitous tube map will have all of Crossrail on it (eventually) but you'd look for Clapham Junction in vain, let alone knowing it has myriad trains per hour serving it from Waterloo. Just look at Goblin, which I believe you've intimate knowledge of, unlike me, and how if you bring such a service to public prominence it'll become rapidly oversubscribed. Anyway, hopefully the disruption between London Bridge and Charing Cross is mostly a thing of the past. A map of all rail services in London, like used to exist in Network S.E. days and was called something like 'London Connections' should not only be produced again but should be made widely available at all stations, bus stations, etc, but I am of course whistling in the wind there. Well there is a map that shows all the rail services in Greater London as well as in the wider South East. Sadly it is not prominently displayed on the TfL network and I'm unsure whether paper versions exist. Certain NR stations used to distribute a paper version but these days paper is now deemed passé. Gtr London mapLSE Map |
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Route 311
Oct 30, 2018 17:20:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by ADH45258 on Oct 30, 2018 17:20:00 GMT
On the matter of people not knowing about the rail link, well, what to say? i'm not disagreeing, I just bang my head head against the wall the way that information on public transport has been and still is so fragmented. The ubiquitous tube map will have all of Crossrail on it (eventually) but you'd look for Clapham Junction in vain, let alone knowing it has myriad trains per hour serving it from Waterloo. Just look at Goblin, which I believe you've intimate knowledge of, unlike me, and how if you bring such a service to public prominence it'll become rapidly oversubscribed. Anyway, hopefully the disruption between London Bridge and Charing Cross is mostly a thing of the past. A map of all rail services in London, like used to exist in Network S.E. days and was called something like 'London Connections' should not only be produced again but should be made widely available at all stations, bus stations, etc, but I am of course whistling in the wind there. Well there is a map that shows all the rail services in Greater London as well as in the wider South East. Sadly it is not prominently displayed on the TfL network and I'm unsure whether paper versions exist. Certain NR stations used to distribute a paper version but these days paper is now deemed passé. Gtr London mapLSE MapThe first map mentioned, which basically shows all train services and routes accepting oyster, is on display at most TFL-owned stations. And some stations do have paper copies available. However, I have rarely seen the London & South East map. |
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Route 311
Oct 30, 2018 17:24:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by ADH45258 on Oct 30, 2018 17:24:29 GMT
<iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 3.240000000000009px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34632287" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5927261" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 102px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_22815734" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 102px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_8763323" scrolling="no"></iframe> It's been about fifty years since the 13 was cut back from London Bridge to Aldwych, which was the area's last direct route to the West End I think ignoring the RV1 , and even longer ago that the 7 departed the area,almost certainly never to return. Liverpool Street has more need than London Bridge to retain a tenuous link with Trafalgar Square, at the very least, though Regent Street would be miles better imo. London Bridge to Charing Cross is a quick and obvious train journey. Not disagreeing with your facts but a couple of observations re a bus link to London Bridge. Despite what has transpired with the RV1 (mismanagement on a huge scale) there is a lot more activity off peak and weekends on the South Bank and at London Bridge than even 30 years ago never mind earlier. You only need to try (if you're feeling brave) to walk along the riverside at weekends, visit Borough Market or the market / food stands near the South Bank centre to see there is far more life. It's a bit like the City and Spitalfields being very much busier at weekends than in the 80s when I first encountered the barren landscape that was the City of London at weekends back then. The City has a decent transport service at the weekends these days but there are some missing links to London Bridge or else very awkward interchange to the 381. I agree that the rail link is quick but the service has been disrupted for years and, of course, it's not on the tube map so I wonder how many people would really know to take the train. Commuters and a share of South Londoners would but I confess it wouldn't be the first thing that entered my head if I was at T Sq and wanted London Bridge. Rail links are not really an excuse though, as not all journey destinations along the 381/RV1 route are directly near Waterloo, Southwark or London Bridge stations. Blackfriars Station on Thameslink is useful, but only on north/south routes. The RV1 has also been very useful for shorter journeys, where there is no tube alternative, or it is not worth the time spent getting between the platform and street level. At the very least, the 381 should get a slight frequency increase to compensate, possibly with some changes to bus stop locations to ease interchange to other routes at Waterloo and London Bridge. |
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Post by busaholic on Oct 30, 2018 19:10:37 GMT
Not disagreeing with your facts but a couple of observations re a bus link to London Bridge. Despite what has transpired with the RV1 (mismanagement on a huge scale) there is a lot more activity off peak and weekends on the South Bank and at London Bridge than even 30 years ago never mind earlier. You only need to try (if you're feeling brave) to walk along the riverside at weekends, visit Borough Market or the market / food stands near the South Bank centre to see there is far more life. It's a bit like the City and Spitalfields being very much busier at weekends than in the 80s when I first encountered the barren landscape that was the City of London at weekends back then. The City has a decent transport service at the weekends these days but there are some missing links to London Bridge or else very awkward interchange to the 381. I agree that the rail link is quick but the service has been disrupted for years and, of course, it's not on the tube map so I wonder how many people would really know to take the train. Commuters and a share of South Londoners would but I confess it wouldn't be the first thing that entered my head if I was at T Sq and wanted London Bridge. Rail links are not really an excuse though, as not all journey destinations along the 381/RV1 route are directly near Waterloo, Southwark or London Bridge stations. Blackfriars Station on Thameslink is useful, but only on north/south routes. The RV1 has also been very useful for shorter journeys, where there is no tube alternative, or it is not worth the time spent getting between the platform and street level. At the very least, the 381 should get a slight frequency increase to compensate, possibly with some changes to bus stop locations to ease interchange to other routes at Waterloo and London Bridge. I just think with all the long-established and mostly well-used bus links that TfL have, or are planning to, cut, a need to re-establish a bus link between London Bridge and the 'West End', which is basically the W1 and WC1 post codes, which has been done without for fifty years, is rather low on the agenda, even mine! Trains between London Bridge and Charing Cross may not be generally well-known outside the populace of South and South East London, Kent, East Sussex parts of Surrey and West Sussex, but they date back to the nineteenth century and offer a service about every three minutes throughout the day! Charing Cross station is by far the best positioned rail terminus for the West End because its creation didn't threaten the land holdings of the barons that prevented railways from the North and Midlands encroaching on their ill-gotten gains. CX is totally unglamorous and workaday, doing 'what it says on the tin' but, for that reason, is forgotten about as a useful alternative to the Underground for those short hops. Regarding NR lines and the Undergound map, I remember a time when the Waterloo and City didn't appear on it, despite a concerted campaign over many years, and (perhaps an apocryphal story) a very big cheese on the Underground staff threatening to resign if it ever appeared on 'his' map. I believe the then Chairman of LT had to intervene and make the decision- the grand fromage must have been appeased because no resignation was forthcoming. It was certainly a story that did the rounds in my time, and I'd like to believe it.  |
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Post by uakari on Oct 30, 2018 20:03:15 GMT
If this 311 malarkey is a fait accompli, I hope that TfL at least has the sense not to call the route that should be called the N11, the N311, like they're saying they will.
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Post by uakari on Nov 20, 2018 11:32:44 GMT
Has there been any clarification on the contradictory information TfL provided on the routing of the 311 and 11 and the night service?
Is it the 311 that is proposed to run Liverpool Street to Victoria, and the 11 Oxford Circus to Fulham, or the other way round? (The map says one thing, the text says another).
Which of these will have a night service (or will both routes have a night service?) and what will it/they be called?
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Post by COBO on Nov 20, 2018 11:41:34 GMT
Has there been any clarification on the contradictory information TfL provided on the routing of the 311 and 11 and the night service? Is it the 311 that is proposed to run Liverpool Street to Victoria, and the 11 Oxford Circus to Fulham, or the other way round? (The map says one thing, the text says another). Which of these will have a night service (or will both routes have a night service?) and what will it/they be called? The 311 is to run between Oxford Circus and Fulham and 11 is to run between Liverpool Street and Victoria. |
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Post by uakari on Nov 20, 2018 11:50:30 GMT
Has there been any clarification on the contradictory information TfL provided on the routing of the 311 and 11 and the night service? Is it the 311 that is proposed to run Liverpool Street to Victoria, and the 11 Oxford Circus to Fulham, or the other way round? (The map says one thing, the text says another). Which of these will have a night service (or will both routes have a night service?) and what will it/they be called? The 311 is to run between Oxford Circus and Fulham and 11 is to run between Liverpool Street and Victoria. Thanks - but the night service is only going to be Liverpool Street - Victoria - King's Road - Fulham? Surely that should be called the N11 then, not the N311? |
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Post by COBO on Nov 20, 2018 11:57:01 GMT
The 311 is to run between Oxford Circus and Fulham and 11 is to run between Liverpool Street and Victoria. Thanks - but the night service is only going to be Liverpool Street - Victoria - King's Road - Fulham? Surely that should be called the N11 then, not the N311? I don't know why it couldn't remain the N311 either. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 20, 2018 12:20:34 GMT
The 311 is to run between Oxford Circus and Fulham and 11 is to run between Liverpool Street and Victoria. Thanks - but the night service is only going to be Liverpool Street - Victoria - King's Road - Fulham? Surely that should be called the N11 then, not the N311? I wonder if this is an indication of how the contracts will actually be end up split up. Go Ahead currently hold the contract for the 11, which is one with a 24 hour service and this suggests that when the split does take place the 311 contract will be the one with the 24 hour element and therefore will be kept at Stockwell while the 11 which runs between Victoria and Liverpool Street will be given to another operator, my guess would be Arriva at AE to make up for the loss of the 48. |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jan 14, 2019 15:46:26 GMT
It has been reported elsewhere that LTs cannot do the proposed turn at Berkeley Square along this new route so conventional hybrids will likely be used. With Go-Ahead also likely to be the operator of this route, I wonder if the 176 will have more LTs than originally intended with the 88 swap. I'm sure news of what's going with this route will be revealed soon.
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Route 311
Jan 14, 2019 16:44:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by sid on Jan 14, 2019 16:44:41 GMT
It has been reported elsewhere that LTs cannot do the proposed turn at Berkeley Square along this new route so conventional hybrids will likely be used. With Go-Ahead also likely to be the operator of this route, I wonder if the 176 will have more LTs than originally intended with the 88 swap. I'm sure news of what's going with this route will be revealed soon. Is there any confirmation on what the 311 PVR will be? If it's not suitable for LT's a swap with the 176 would seem the obvious solution. I'm assuming the stand at Tooting Station would prevent the 77 getting LT's? |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 14, 2019 18:05:15 GMT
I'm assuming the stand at Tooting Station would prevent the 77 getting LT's? Yes, they'd have trouble getting around the back streets beyond the stand back onto the main road. |
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Route 311
Jan 14, 2019 18:07:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by ADH45258 on Jan 14, 2019 18:07:53 GMT
It has been reported elsewhere that LTs cannot do the proposed turn at Berkeley Square along this new route so conventional hybrids will likely be used. With Go-Ahead also likely to be the operator of this route, I wonder if the 176 will have more LTs than originally intended with the 88 swap. I'm sure news of what's going with this route will be revealed soon. Is there any confirmation on what the 311 PVR will be? If it's not suitable for LT's a swap with the 176 would seem the obvious solution. I'm assuming the stand at Tooting Station would prevent the 77 getting LT's? If the 311 uses the same frequency of the existing 11, I would expect a PVR of around 16. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 14, 2019 18:09:35 GMT
It has been reported elsewhere that LTs cannot do the proposed turn at Berkeley Square along this new route so conventional hybrids will likely be used. With Go-Ahead also likely to be the operator of this route, I wonder if the 176 will have more LTs than originally intended with the 88 swap. I'm sure news of what's going with this route will be revealed soon. With the number of spare LTs in London, plus more from the central London changes, I would expect the 176 to fully convert to LTs. Then its EHs would likely move to SW for the 311 and to top up the 88, with the 176's WHVs/MHVs going elsewhere. |
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