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Post by busaholic on Dec 14, 2019 21:38:57 GMT
And Jo Swinson loses her seat! Me and 725DYE are watching all the drama unfold. She may well be the highest-profile casualty this time. All 11 current LibDem MPs now represent Remain areas. On another forum I predicted the LibDems missing out on St Ives for being a Leave areas. Apart from Tim Farron's Westmoreland & Lonsdale constituency, all LibDem ones are now in Scotland or the South, including London. I've lived in St Ives constituency for 31 years now. The fact it voted Leave in the referendum, as did every Cornish constituency bar Truro and Falmouth, might have indicated that the LibDems hadn't a hope of winning, but that was far from true for several reasons. Andrew George was LibDem MP here from 1997 until losing in the 2015 election, having won it when the Tories were expecting to keep it in perpetuity. He is a local person very involved in the community and has been particularly effective with campaigning on the NHS and was instrumental in ensuring the survival of two hospitals in the West Cornwall area that have bucked the trend of everything in Cornwall being centralised at Treliske, Truro: in particular, West Cornwall Hospital in Penzance has a 24 hour urgent care centre, the only one not in Truro, which I've had to avail myself of a few times in recent months. (Andrew's wife, Jill, was a nurse on the wards there for years too.) Andrew has continued to stand in each election since 2015 and only failed by 312 votes to unseat the Tory in 2017, aided by a local decision by the Greens not to stand. Unfortunately, Labour had a stronger candidate than usual that year who put on 5.000 votes from 2015, so he failed to get in. This year, local volunteers put in a supreme effort to get Andrew re-elected, but the Greens did stand, which might seem surprising on account of the 'Remain alliance', until you realise Andrew has been extremely critical of his new leader, Jo Swinson, and her position on revoking Article 50. In return, Swinson wouldn't agree to St Ives being in the 'pact' and, what's more, despite making a highly publicised visit to a neighbouring constituency, never set foot in St Ives, although maybe that was for the better. Her name has been virtually absent from locally produced literature, of which there are reams, and even the LibDem name has only had scant appearances, although the colours were ever present.As late as Thursday morning the i newspaper was predicting a LibDem victory despite Leave, on the basis of George's popularity, or respect at least, which I can honestly say the Tory has never had, being pure voting fodder. So, the scale of the defeat was disappointing, but if the Labour and Green voters has switched their votes (and many of them had, but not enough) then he'd have narrowly won. The Brexit party weren't standing, of course, so all Leave supporters voted Tory. I'd have loved to see Andrew George get back, if only to give a huge V sign to Jo Swinson, though he couln't have done it in person. He might even have become their new leader! |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 14, 2019 21:47:37 GMT
Sore losers, its the same mentality for the second referendum. This is what I cant stand about these activist leftist people its no other way but their and they are very sore losers who believe everyone should be brainwashed into their way of thinking. They are part of the reason that is shifting centreground people to the right. Gret -yah thunderburger and others like Momentum, Climate Rebellion are all part of this movement imo.
Social Media is still in meltdown! Never known such sour grapes I thought the Brexit vote was bad. One thing that is really making my blood boil is its being implied you are some type of racist for not voting Labour and that is not fair.
That is one of the reasons I wouldn't vote Labour, I have had many friend post the usual poo on social media without using common sense or brains to do research into them and paint Corbyn as though he is a gift from God. Even if he came to power the rich he says he would tackle would either move their businesses abroad, or use other legal ways of not paying high tax. He would then put most companies into public ownership, then the same people who voted for him would be paying it through their teeth in higher taxes. They cannot see Labour was also racist in the 60's and 70's but the media channels they used portrayed they were not like that, far from the truth.
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Post by ohdear on Dec 14, 2019 23:22:24 GMT
As a non aligned voter who takes the time seeking my own info on the various manifestos I am always alarmed at the ill thought out statements being made on this and other boards.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 14, 2019 23:30:35 GMT
As a non aligned voter who takes the time seeking my own info on the various manifestos I am always alarmed at the ill thought out statements being made on this and other boards.
What a bizarre post! |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 15, 2019 0:50:20 GMT
Actually, both parties are to blame for Grenfell because Grenfell’s plight started under Thatcher when she sold off council housing whilst letting the rest rot to pieces and successive governments of all persuasions failed to deal with this decline hence why May getting all the blame is wrong. Swinson made two fatal errors - declaring she could be PM & campaigning on the basis of straight up revoking Article 50. This ultimately put many remainers off not to mention lack of pact between Lib Dem’s & Labour splitting the Remain vote unlike the Leave vote which had a Tory & Brexit Party alliance. I did feel sorry for her losing her seat as it meant the racist SNP party getting in instead. I am no fan of the SNP, but to say they are racist is a bit extreme They are anti-English because breaking up the union makes little sense for Scotland as they have more to lose from it - not sure how close to racist you need to be then? Sturgeon gives out about the Tories when really, she is one in disguise duping the whole of Scotland in the process. The Scottish are lovely people so hopefully they will realise at some point. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 15, 2019 0:51:41 GMT
As a non aligned voter who takes the time seeking my own info on the various manifestos I am always alarmed at the ill thought out statements being made on this and other boards.
Can you clarify who this is aimed at & which statements your on about please  |
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Post by N230UD on Dec 15, 2019 1:12:01 GMT
I'm all for people having the right to protest but I don't understand how they can seriously protest about an election result, bizarre. And how idiotic to trap people on a bus, police really need to deal with these idiots robustly. Sore losers, its the same mentality for the second referendum. This is what I cant stand about these activist leftist people its no other way but their and they are very sore losers who believe everyone should be brainwashed into their way of thinking. They are part of the reason that is shifting centreground people to the right. Gret -yah thunderburger and others like Momentum, Climate Rebellion are all part of this movement imo.
I'm just wondering how 'rightists' would have reacted if Labour had won this election. Would they have quietly accepted the result, and not protest about it ? I somehow doubt it. I agree many Leftists feel their way is the only way, and get very aggressive if people don't agree. But I feel there are certainly plenty of right-wing people who are EXACTLY the same. Especially when we have a largely right wing media. |
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Post by N230UD on Dec 15, 2019 1:26:58 GMT
I really can't see Boris uniting this nation. He is a very divisive figure, which is not an ideal trait for any leader of a country. If if we talk about public transport and buses though, let's hope the Tories stop being so pro-car and actually become proactive in promoting bus useage (not just trains!). While I don't quite agree with Labour's views on nationalisation, at least they did talk about buses, probably much more so than in previous elections. The local Tories in my area just build car parks and build new roads. Public transport is not a priority for them. Well in London, labour have come in and are letting buses down, at least there were a few things done under Conservative. Labour's never ending manifesto promises had a way to bring some bus services back under public ownership which was laughable imo. But then never mentioned any improvements etc. that being public ownership would bring. I loved the uniformity of public ownership buses and trains, but services were nothing to should about, it was sh*t at times to be honest. We need new roads, buses also benefit from them, I guess in 20 years time you would see why lack of roads stifles communities and economy. Conservatives nor labour have not built hardly any roads since the 90's and should be ashamed of themselves. We need more roads, more train lines.
Ok, so In London, who removed a large proportion of TfL's subsidy? Pretty sure it wasn't Labour. Who introduced the New Routemaster? Boris, who said it would reduce the fare evasion from the bendy-buses it eventually replaced. TfL recently announced the New Routemaster had fare-evasion 'more than double the rate than elsewhere' resulting in spending more public money in making them front-door-only boarding. Buses only benefit from new roads if there are measures taken to improve bus priority. I rarely see that. New roads usually encourage more cars, lots of evidence proves that (but of course, I understand that evidence is no longer accepted in this society). More effort needs to be made with bus-friendly schemes. When I visit other countries, their bus systems often seem years ahead. I do think that Labours insistence than buses should be nationalised is wrong though. In my view, buses work best when there is a good PARTNERSHIP between commercial operators and local authorities. I don't think I want to see the day when politicians have more power over buses. Just like how mayors introduce popular schemes just to get more votes, without proper professional analysis. |
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Post by kenmet on Dec 15, 2019 6:04:25 GMT
Well in London, labour have come in and are letting buses down, at least there were a few things done under Conservative. Labour's never ending manifesto promises had a way to bring some bus services back under public ownership which was laughable imo. But then never mentioned any improvements etc. that being public ownership would bring. I loved the uniformity of public ownership buses and trains, but services were nothing to should about, it was sh*t at times to be honest. We need new roads, buses also benefit from them, I guess in 20 years time you would see why lack of roads stifles communities and economy. Conservatives nor labour have not built hardly any roads since the 90's and should be ashamed of themselves. We need more roads, more train lines.
Ok, so In London, who removed a large proportion of TfL's subsidy? Pretty sure it wasn't Labour. Who introduced the New Routemaster? Boris, who said it would reduce the fare evasion from the bendy-buses it eventually replaced. TfL recently announced the New Routemaster had fare-evasion 'more than double the rate than elsewhere' resulting in spending more public money in making them front-door-only boarding. Buses only benefit from new roads if there are measures taken to improve bus priority. I rarely see that. New roads usually encourage more cars, lots of evidence proves that (but of course, I understand that evidence is no longer accepted in this society). More effort needs to be made with bus-friendly schemes. When I visit other countries, their bus systems often seem years ahead. I do think that Labours insistence than buses should be nationalised is wrong though. In my view, buses work best when there is a good PARTNERSHIP between commercial operators and local authorities. I don't think I want to see the day when politicians have more power over buses. Just like how mayors introduce popular schemes just to get more votes, without proper professional analysis. Just to clarify replacing bendybuses with a new Routemaster was in Boris's manifesto and he would quite rightly have been lambasted if he had failed to do so and it was the current Labour mayor who removed conductors leading to fare evasion. I do agree with you though about a partnership between commercial operators and local authorities and less input from politicians of all parties. |
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Post by kenmet on Dec 15, 2019 8:59:08 GMT
Temporary polling Station in Blackpool.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 15, 2019 13:02:12 GMT
Sore losers, its the same mentality for the second referendum. This is what I cant stand about these activist leftist people its no other way but their and they are very sore losers who believe everyone should be brainwashed into their way of thinking. They are part of the reason that is shifting centreground people to the right. Gret -yah thunderburger and others like Momentum, Climate Rebellion are all part of this movement imo.
I'm just wondering how 'rightists' would have reacted if Labour had won this election. Would they have quietly accepted the result, and not protest about it ? I somehow doubt it. I agree many Leftists feel their way is the only way, and get very aggressive if people don't agree. But I feel there are certainly plenty of right-wing people who are EXACTLY the same. Especially when we have a largely right wing media. Obviously there is little choice but to accept the result of any election whether you agree with it or not but your comment about "a largely right wing media" gets me. I've heard numerous people complaining that the same media have had an anti Brexit agenda from the outset. Either way I think most people are capable of making up their own mind without any influence from the media. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 15, 2019 15:12:58 GMT
Well in London, labour have come in and are letting buses down, at least there were a few things done under Conservative. Labour's never ending manifesto promises had a way to bring some bus services back under public ownership which was laughable imo. But then never mentioned any improvements etc. that being public ownership would bring. I loved the uniformity of public ownership buses and trains, but services were nothing to should about, it was sh*t at times to be honest. We need new roads, buses also benefit from them, I guess in 20 years time you would see why lack of roads stifles communities and economy. Conservatives nor labour have not built hardly any roads since the 90's and should be ashamed of themselves. We need more roads, more train lines.
Ok, so In London, who removed a large proportion of TfL's subsidy? Pretty sure it wasn't Labour. Who introduced the New Routemaster? Boris, who said it would reduce the fare evasion from the bendy-buses it eventually replaced. TfL recently announced the New Routemaster had fare-evasion 'more than double the rate than elsewhere' resulting in spending more public money in making them front-door-only boarding. Buses only benefit from new roads if there are measures taken to improve bus priority. I rarely see that. New roads usually encourage more cars, lots of evidence proves that (but of course, I understand that evidence is no longer accepted in this society). More effort needs to be made with bus-friendly schemes. When I visit other countries, their bus systems often seem years ahead. I do think that Labours insistence than buses should be nationalised is wrong though. In my view, buses work best when there is a good PARTNERSHIP between commercial operators and local authorities. I don't think I want to see the day when politicians have more power over buses. Just like how mayors introduce popular schemes just to get more votes, without proper professional analysis. Your absolutely correct in your first paragraph though equally we should not forget that it was further exasperated by a Labour mayor whose flagship policy was to implement a fares freeze at a time when finances weren’t great but even more laughable when you consider that he knew the subsidy had or was going to be removed but that equally sums up Labour’s reign with Corbyn in charge - even more ironic when Kahn lambasts Corbyn after the defeat. Bus priority is a must but the problem is the traffic planners have long had no clue as to what should be done and have simply allowed congestion to increase year on year. Car usage needs to decrease and this whole failed concept of slowing down roads needs to be scrapped as well because decreasing road space for cycle lanes without decreasing the amount of vehicles on the road is barmy and short sighted. Labour nationalising everything was always a recipe for disaster and seemed to conjure some sort of odd image that everything would be fine as if it was as easy as that. Couple with the fact that most of their manifesto, like the Tories, and it’s easy to why people didn’t go for them. |
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Post by N230UD on Dec 15, 2019 19:03:07 GMT
I'm just wondering how 'rightists' would have reacted if Labour had won this election. Would they have quietly accepted the result, and not protest about it ? I somehow doubt it. I agree many Leftists feel their way is the only way, and get very aggressive if people don't agree. But I feel there are certainly plenty of right-wing people who are EXACTLY the same. Especially when we have a largely right wing media. Obviously there is little choice but to accept the result of any election whether you agree with it or not but your comment about "a largely right wing media" gets me. I've heard numerous people complaining that the same media have had an anti Brexit agenda from the outset. Either way I think most people are capable of making up their own mind without any influence from the media. It does depend which media source. Most of the best selling newspapers are owned by right-wing millionaires, who have clearly used the papers for an agenda (Private Eye magazine regularly points this out). Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, Evening Standard, The Telegraph and The Times are all known as right-wing newspapers and openly support the Conservative Party. In contrast, only the Guardian and the Mirror openly support the Labour Party. The vast majority of our national newspapers openly have a right-wing or left-wing bias. Only very few are 'neutral'. I think that is wrong. I think the media needs to be doing a lot more to be neutral, rather than trying to influence people's views, left or right. While many people are not influenced by the media, I know of many friends and family whose only news source are certain newspapers, and they often just repeat stories they have read in bias newspapers, rather than being more open-minded and making up their own mind. I'm friends with a Tory voting Brexiteer - he has actually researched properly into his views rather than just blindly reading bias sources. |
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Post by N230UD on Dec 15, 2019 19:05:45 GMT
Ok, so In London, who removed a large proportion of TfL's subsidy? Pretty sure it wasn't Labour. Who introduced the New Routemaster? Boris, who said it would reduce the fare evasion from the bendy-buses it eventually replaced. TfL recently announced the New Routemaster had fare-evasion 'more than double the rate than elsewhere' resulting in spending more public money in making them front-door-only boarding. Buses only benefit from new roads if there are measures taken to improve bus priority. I rarely see that. New roads usually encourage more cars, lots of evidence proves that (but of course, I understand that evidence is no longer accepted in this society). More effort needs to be made with bus-friendly schemes. When I visit other countries, their bus systems often seem years ahead. I do think that Labours insistence than buses should be nationalised is wrong though. In my view, buses work best when there is a good PARTNERSHIP between commercial operators and local authorities. I don't think I want to see the day when politicians have more power over buses. Just like how mayors introduce popular schemes just to get more votes, without proper professional analysis. Your absolutely correct in your first paragraph though equally we should not forget that it was further exasperated by a Labour mayor whose flagship policy was to implement a fares freeze at a time when finances weren’t great but even more laughable when you consider that he knew the subsidy had or was going to be removed but that equally sums up Labour’s reign with Corbyn in charge - even more ironic when Kahn lambasts Corbyn after the defeat. Bus priority is a must but the problem is the traffic planners have long had no clue as to what should be done and have simply allowed congestion to increase year on year. Car usage needs to decrease and this whole failed concept of slowing down roads needs to be scrapped as well because decreasing road space for cycle lanes without decreasing the amount of vehicles on the road is barmy and short sighted. Labour nationalising everything was always a recipe for disaster and seemed to conjure some sort of odd image that everything would be fine as if it was as easy as that. Couple with the fact that most of their manifesto, like the Tories, and it’s easy to why people didn’t go for them. Yes, I don't agree with some of the things Khan has pushed through at TfL either. This is why I think politicians can have too much power, such as with transport - they just push through vanity projects to win votes, rather than listening to experts. |
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Post by kenmet on Dec 15, 2019 19:44:55 GMT
Obviously there is little choice but to accept the result of any election whether you agree with it or not but your comment about "a largely right wing media" gets me. I've heard numerous people complaining that the same media have had an anti Brexit agenda from the outset. Either way I think most people are capable of making up their own mind without any influence from the media. It does depend which media source. Most of the best selling newspapers are owned by right-wing millionaires, who have clearly used the papers for an agenda (Private Eye magazine regularly points this out). Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, Evening Standard, The Telegraph and The Times are all known as right-wing newspapers and openly support the Conservative Party. In contrast, only the Guardian and the Mirror openly support the Labour Party. The vast majority of our national newspapers openly have a right-wing or left-wing bias. Only very few are 'neutral'. I think that is wrong. I think the media needs to be doing a lot more to be neutral, rather than trying to influence people's views, left or right. While many people are not influenced by the media, I know of many friends and family whose only news source are certain newspapers, and they often just repeat stories they have read in bias newspapers, rather than being more open-minded and making up their own mind. I'm friends with a Tory voting Brexiteer - he has actually researched properly into his views rather than just blindly reading bias sources. Being right wing doesn't necessarily mean supporting Brexit and there have been many complaints about project fear from the media trying to frighten people into voting remain. Either way I think it's patronising to say the least to suggest that people can't make up their own minds which way to vote. |
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