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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 0:10:00 GMT
I don’t know what you think, TB123 , and you seem a knowledgeable chap, but I get the distinct feeling that with the what I will call the SL472 introduction will come the complete demise of the current 472 : maybe with the sop of more 180s in partial compensation. Knowing TFL, I wouldn’t be that surprised if they used this as an excuse completely get rid of the existing 472 either, despite it and the 180 serving two completely different sides of Thamesmead. The way I would prefer this to be done is for the current route remain as it is from North Greenwich to Woolwich, then utilise the busway to Abbey Wood, with the 177, 244 and 301 all increased to compensate for stops losing the 472. I think you have the right idea in all fairness - simply making the 472 a Superloop route and removing it's all stopping purpose seems rather daft to me. Outside London, express routes tend to exist with regular stopping routes in the vast majority of cases bar really long distance routes and the 472 is certainly not that. |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 23, 2024 4:34:54 GMT
The brilliant DG has made his first blog post on Superloop 2: diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2024/04/superloop-2.html?m=1 He made some interesting points that the Superloop 2 routes should go clockwise from North West London regarding their route numbers (which was the same rationale used in the first phase of the Superloop project). So for example; SL11 should be the Harrow to Barnet route and SL20 should be the Hendon to Ealing Broadway when the second loop comes "full circle". As with DG, I'm torn if the Bakerloop route should be assigned a SL number or its own special number like BL1. I'm leaning towards the Bakerloop route just being incorporated into the wider Superloop network like the draft map suggests. |
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Post by DE20106 on Apr 23, 2024 11:09:57 GMT
The brilliant DG has made his first blog post on Superloop 2: diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2024/04/superloop-2.html?m=1 He made some interesting points that the Superloop 2 routes should go clockwise from North West London regarding their route numbers (which was the same rationale used in the first phase of the Superloop project). So for example; SL11 should be the Harrow to Barnet route and SL20 should be the Hendon to Ealing Broadway when the second loop comes "full circle". As with DG, I'm torn if the Bakerloop route should be assigned a SL number or its own special number like BL1. I'm leaning towards the Bakerloop route just being incorporated into the wider Superloop network like the draft map suggests. Deffo it should just be a SL number, I always maintain everything should be consistent where possible |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 23, 2024 15:27:49 GMT
So I thought I'd put my twopenneth in regarding these proposed new routes and some predictions: Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware - I think there's long been a need for a faster TfL route across Barnet borough - I've suggested an 'X307' route here many times before - the 384 went some way to doing this, although remains constrained by the Quinta Drive diversion and use of smaller single decks. It'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be a significant increase over the 107 and 384 which are both low-frequency routes. I suspect this will run via Canons Park and then straight up the A1 with a little drop in at Barnet Hospital, terminating at New Barnet - and hopefully using double decks (probably a Metroline route) - personally I'd run this through to Enfield rather than Barnet. Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford - this looks a good route with the provision of a faster bus between Stratford, Walthamstow and Chingford - really the Hall Farm curve should reopen allowing for direct passenger trains, but this could be a great alternative in the meantime. Personally, I'd terminate it at Enfield rather than Barnet with the Barnet to Harrow route covering Enfield instead. Again, it'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be again be quite an increase over the existing 307/313 routes. I suspect this will be an Arriva route. Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford - there appears to be a degree of duplication with this route and the 66 however it does offer the opportunity to boost journey times further by perhaps skipping out Snaresbrook and offer some extra capacity on a corridor that has seen consistent growth (build it and they will come...) - I suspect it'll run south from Romford to Hornchurch and Rainham to fulfill some stakeholder demands for more bus links North-South in Havering borough. Again, I think this will be an Arriva route.
North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich - this looks to be more of a BRT route with a consolidated stop pattern than limited stop, this looks a good idea and really the original Greenwich Waterfront Transit should never have been cancelled. This should really use open-board vehicles, be that tri-axle doubles or artics. I suspect this will be a 'beefed up' 472 with that route being withdrawn entirely. ‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross - as I've said previously this is a sensible move to speed up journeys along the line of the Bakerloo extension until it can be built and offer a faster direct bus from Lewisham to Elephant. Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee - this looks a most interesting one. I suspect it will be a single deck route and the routing will be interesting to see, I presume it will run right along the South Circ via Catford. Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton - I'm interested to see the finer details of this one. I presume it will go straight up past Wimbledon common and then skip out Putney Heath to serve Roehampton and South Circ. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if this involved a tweak of the 493. Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond - I've long suggested an X65 route. It's a yes from me, although it will be interesting to see what they do with the standard 65, if anything at all. Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road - I presume this will skip out Chiswick High Road to cater for longer journeys and then run to the town centre. Quite an interesting one given the H91 already does similar to this. Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane - again, another one I've long since suggested and indeed predicted - an 'X112' is much needed given how busy the normal 112s are. I hope this runs via Ealing Common so it can use double decks. A great idea nonetheless. Think that's it... I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the Superloop 2 routes. In the order the routes were placed, I think these routes will be numbered SL11-SL20 although there's still some uncertainty around the Bakerloop route and if TFL are going to actively differentiate the route from the other Superloop routes. I'm also interested to find out your reasoning behind your prediction that you think the Streatham to Eltham route will be a single decker route. On the operators front, here are my predictions SL11 (Harrow to Barnet) - Metroline SL12 (Barnet to Stratford) - Arriva SL13 (Leytonstone to South Havering) - Stagecoach SL14 (North Greenwich to Thamesmead) - Stagecoach SL15 (Bakerloop line: Elephant & Castle - Lewisham) - Go-Ahead SL16 (Streatham - Eltham) - Arriva SL17 (Richmond to Wimbledon) - Go-Ahead SL18 (Ealing Broadway to Kingston) - RATP or Transport UK SL19 (Hounslow to Hammersmith) - RATP or Metroline SL20 (Hendon to Ealing Broadway) - Metroline It will be interesting to see how these routes are incorporated into the tendering programme, will all 10 routes be put into one major tranche or will the Superloop 2 routes being split into tranches going by geographical area. For example; SL11, SL12 and SL13 forming an North/East London Superloop tranche and SL14, SL15 and SL16 forming an South East London Superloop tranche etc. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2024 15:49:43 GMT
So I thought I'd put my twopenneth in regarding these proposed new routes and some predictions: Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware - I think there's long been a need for a faster TfL route across Barnet borough - I've suggested an 'X307' route here many times before - the 384 went some way to doing this, although remains constrained by the Quinta Drive diversion and use of smaller single decks. It'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be a significant increase over the 107 and 384 which are both low-frequency routes. I suspect this will run via Canons Park and then straight up the A1 with a little drop in at Barnet Hospital, terminating at New Barnet - and hopefully using double decks (probably a Metroline route) - personally I'd run this through to Enfield rather than Barnet. Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford - this looks a good route with the provision of a faster bus between Stratford, Walthamstow and Chingford - really the Hall Farm curve should reopen allowing for direct passenger trains, but this could be a great alternative in the meantime. Personally, I'd terminate it at Enfield rather than Barnet with the Barnet to Harrow route covering Enfield instead. Again, it'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be again be quite an increase over the existing 307/313 routes. I suspect this will be an Arriva route. Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford - there appears to be a degree of duplication with this route and the 66 however it does offer the opportunity to boost journey times further by perhaps skipping out Snaresbrook and offer some extra capacity on a corridor that has seen consistent growth (build it and they will come...) - I suspect it'll run south from Romford to Hornchurch and Rainham to fulfill some stakeholder demands for more bus links North-South in Havering borough. Again, I think this will be an Arriva route.
North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich - this looks to be more of a BRT route with a consolidated stop pattern than limited stop, this looks a good idea and really the original Greenwich Waterfront Transit should never have been cancelled. This should really use open-board vehicles, be that tri-axle doubles or artics. I suspect this will be a 'beefed up' 472 with that route being withdrawn entirely. ‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross - as I've said previously this is a sensible move to speed up journeys along the line of the Bakerloo extension until it can be built and offer a faster direct bus from Lewisham to Elephant. Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee - this looks a most interesting one. I suspect it will be a single deck route and the routing will be interesting to see, I presume it will run right along the South Circ via Catford. Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton - I'm interested to see the finer details of this one. I presume it will go straight up past Wimbledon common and then skip out Putney Heath to serve Roehampton and South Circ. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if this involved a tweak of the 493. Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond - I've long suggested an X65 route. It's a yes from me, although it will be interesting to see what they do with the standard 65, if anything at all. Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road - I presume this will skip out Chiswick High Road to cater for longer journeys and then run to the town centre. Quite an interesting one given the H91 already does similar to this. Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane - again, another one I've long since suggested and indeed predicted - an 'X112' is much needed given how busy the normal 112s are. I hope this runs via Ealing Common so it can use double decks. A great idea nonetheless. Think that's it... I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the Superloop 2 routes. In the order the routes were placed, I think these routes will be numbered SL11-SL20 although there's still some uncertainty around the Bakerloop route and if TFL are going to actively differentiate the route from the other Superloop routes. I'm also interested to find out your reasoning behind your prediction that you think the Streatham to Eltham route will be a single decker route. On the operators front, here are my predictions SL11 (Harrow to Barnet) - Metroline SL12 (Barnet to Stratford) - Arriva SL13 (Leytonstone to South Havering) - Stagecoach SL14 (North Greenwich to Thamesmead) - Stagecoach SL15 (Bakerloop line: Elephant & Castle - Lewisham) - Go-Ahead SL16 (Streatham - Eltham) - Arriva SL17 (Richmond to Wimbledon) - Go-Ahead SL18 (Ealing Broadway to Kingston) - RATP or Transport UK SL19 (Hounslow to Hammersmith) - RATP or Metroline SL20 (Hendon to Ealing Broadway) - Metroline It will be interesting to see how these routes are incorporated into the tendering programme, will all 10 routes be put into one major tranche or will the Superloop 2 routes being split into tranches going by geographical area. For example; SL11, SL12 and SL13 forming an North/East London Superloop tranche and SL14, SL15 and SL16 forming an South East London Superloop tranche etc. I can go along with most of those operator predictions. I'm predicting the 'SL16' will be a single deck route as the conventional wisdom routing is straight under the infamous bridge at Tulse Hill. I could however be wrong.... It'll be interesting to see if any of these are awarded as short-term contracts with existing fleet or if they are awarded as 7-year tenders with EVs. I have had it suggested that this project was already worked on by TfL although only Sadiq is pledging to implement it as a manifesto commitment, ie Susan Hall may cancel it. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 16:10:41 GMT
So I thought I'd put my twopenneth in regarding these proposed new routes and some predictions: Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware - I think there's long been a need for a faster TfL route across Barnet borough - I've suggested an 'X307' route here many times before - the 384 went some way to doing this, although remains constrained by the Quinta Drive diversion and use of smaller single decks. It'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be a significant increase over the 107 and 384 which are both low-frequency routes. I suspect this will run via Canons Park and then straight up the A1 with a little drop in at Barnet Hospital, terminating at New Barnet - and hopefully using double decks (probably a Metroline route) - personally I'd run this through to Enfield rather than Barnet. Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford - this looks a good route with the provision of a faster bus between Stratford, Walthamstow and Chingford - really the Hall Farm curve should reopen allowing for direct passenger trains, but this could be a great alternative in the meantime. Personally, I'd terminate it at Enfield rather than Barnet with the Barnet to Harrow route covering Enfield instead. Again, it'll be interesting to see the frequency of this route as a standard 5bph frequency will be again be quite an increase over the existing 307/313 routes. I suspect this will be an Arriva route. Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford - there appears to be a degree of duplication with this route and the 66 however it does offer the opportunity to boost journey times further by perhaps skipping out Snaresbrook and offer some extra capacity on a corridor that has seen consistent growth (build it and they will come...) - I suspect it'll run south from Romford to Hornchurch and Rainham to fulfill some stakeholder demands for more bus links North-South in Havering borough. Again, I think this will be an Arriva route.
North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich - this looks to be more of a BRT route with a consolidated stop pattern than limited stop, this looks a good idea and really the original Greenwich Waterfront Transit should never have been cancelled. This should really use open-board vehicles, be that tri-axle doubles or artics. I suspect this will be a 'beefed up' 472 with that route being withdrawn entirely. ‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross - as I've said previously this is a sensible move to speed up journeys along the line of the Bakerloo extension until it can be built and offer a faster direct bus from Lewisham to Elephant. Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee - this looks a most interesting one. I suspect it will be a single deck route and the routing will be interesting to see, I presume it will run right along the South Circ via Catford. Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton - I'm interested to see the finer details of this one. I presume it will go straight up past Wimbledon common and then skip out Putney Heath to serve Roehampton and South Circ. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if this involved a tweak of the 493. Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond - I've long suggested an X65 route. It's a yes from me, although it will be interesting to see what they do with the standard 65, if anything at all. Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road - I presume this will skip out Chiswick High Road to cater for longer journeys and then run to the town centre. Quite an interesting one given the H91 already does similar to this. Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane - again, another one I've long since suggested and indeed predicted - an 'X112' is much needed given how busy the normal 112s are. I hope this runs via Ealing Common so it can use double decks. A great idea nonetheless. Think that's it... I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the Superloop 2 routes. In the order the routes were placed, I think these routes will be numbered SL11-SL20 although there's still some uncertainty around the Bakerloop route and if TFL are going to actively differentiate the route from the other Superloop routes. I'm also interested to find out your reasoning behind your prediction that you think the Streatham to Eltham route will be a single decker route. On the operators front, here are my predictions SL11 (Harrow to Barnet) - Metroline SL12 (Barnet to Stratford) - Arriva SL13 (Leytonstone to South Havering) - Stagecoach SL14 (North Greenwich to Thamesmead) - Stagecoach SL15 (Bakerloop line: Elephant & Castle - Lewisham) - Go-Ahead SL16 (Streatham - Eltham) - Arriva SL17 (Richmond to Wimbledon) - Go-Ahead SL18 (Ealing Broadway to Kingston) - RATP or Transport UK SL19 (Hounslow to Hammersmith) - RATP or Metroline SL20 (Hendon to Ealing Broadway) - Metroline It will be interesting to see how these routes are incorporated into the tendering programme, will all 10 routes be put into one major tranche or will the Superloop 2 routes being split into tranches going by geographical area. For example; SL11, SL12 and SL13 forming an North/East London Superloop tranche and SL14, SL15 and SL16 forming an South East London Superloop tranche etc. Running via Tulse Hill, the most likeliest way it would run is via Thurlow Park Road under the low bridge as I can't see it going to Herne Hill and then following the 37 to Goose Green before then heading south again even though it could actually end up quicker ironically at certain times. The only other option is to follow the 432 to Palace (unlikely personally) or they get bold and use the diversionary route via Lancaster Avenue to bypass the majority of Thurlow Park Road (unlikely personally) so my guess would be that route will be single decker and I don't see Arriva running it (Go-Ahead, Abellio, maybe even Stagecoach at a push, seem more likely) |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 23, 2024 17:04:16 GMT
I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the Superloop 2 routes. In the order the routes were placed, I think these routes will be numbered SL11-SL20 although there's still some uncertainty around the Bakerloop route and if TFL are going to actively differentiate the route from the other Superloop routes. I'm also interested to find out your reasoning behind your prediction that you think the Streatham to Eltham route will be a single decker route. On the operators front, here are my predictions SL11 (Harrow to Barnet) - Metroline SL12 (Barnet to Stratford) - Arriva SL13 (Leytonstone to South Havering) - Stagecoach SL14 (North Greenwich to Thamesmead) - Stagecoach SL15 (Bakerloop line: Elephant & Castle - Lewisham) - Go-Ahead SL16 (Streatham - Eltham) - Arriva SL17 (Richmond to Wimbledon) - Go-Ahead SL18 (Ealing Broadway to Kingston) - RATP or Transport UK SL19 (Hounslow to Hammersmith) - RATP or Metroline SL20 (Hendon to Ealing Broadway) - Metroline It will be interesting to see how these routes are incorporated into the tendering programme, will all 10 routes be put into one major tranche or will the Superloop 2 routes being split into tranches going by geographical area. For example; SL11, SL12 and SL13 forming an North/East London Superloop tranche and SL14, SL15 and SL16 forming an South East London Superloop tranche etc. Running via Tulse Hill, the most likeliest way it would run is via Thurlow Park Road under the low bridge as I can't see it going to Herne Hill and then following the 37 to Goose Green before then heading south again even though it could actually end up quicker ironically at certain times. The only other option is to follow the 432 to Palace (unlikely personally) or they get bold and use the diversionary route via Lancaster Avenue to bypass the majority of Thurlow Park Road (unlikely personally) so my guess would be that route will be single decker and I don't see Arriva running it (Go-Ahead, Abellio, maybe even Stagecoach at a push, seem more likely) Ah thank you for the reminder of the low bridge in the Tulse Hill area! So single decks will have to make up the allocation for that route. Hopefully full size electric single decks will be allocated but knowing TFL 70 capacity single decks will probably be chosen. It will be interesting to see if SL16* (Streatham to Eltham route) where it would be operated from if it comes becomes a reality as there is no obvious garage along its route. The only garages I can think of that are near its route are Brixton and Catford which is why I suggested Arriva could operate it. I really hope this route terminates in Streatham station maybe route P13 could move out to the St. Leonard's Church stand? * = my suggested Superloop number for the Streatham - Eltham route, there is no confirmation yet on its route number |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2024 17:13:18 GMT
Running via Tulse Hill, the most likeliest way it would run is via Thurlow Park Road under the low bridge as I can't see it going to Herne Hill and then following the 37 to Goose Green before then heading south again even though it could actually end up quicker ironically at certain times. The only other option is to follow the 432 to Palace (unlikely personally) or they get bold and use the diversionary route via Lancaster Avenue to bypass the majority of Thurlow Park Road (unlikely personally) so my guess would be that route will be single decker and I don't see Arriva running it (Go-Ahead, Abellio, maybe even Stagecoach at a push, seem more likely) Ah thank you for the reminder of the low bridge in the Tulse Hill area! So single decks will have to make up the allocation for that route. Hopefully full size electric single decks will be allocated but knowing TFL 70 capacity single decks will probably be chosen. It will be interesting to see if SL16* (Streatham to Eltham route) where it would be operated from if it comes becomes a reality as there is no obvious garage along its route. The only garages I can think of that are near its route are Brixton and Catford which is why I suggested Arriva could operate it. I really hope this route terminate in Streatham station maybe route P13 could move out to the St. Leonard's Church stand? * = my suggested Superloop number for the Streatham - Eltham route, there is no confirmation yet on its route numberIf any stands had to move, I'd prefer to see something like the 60 move to Streatham Hill or St Leonard's - although neither would be ideal. I'd see it as a backwards move taking the P13 out of the Station termini |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 24, 2024 0:43:13 GMT
I've realised I've not given thoughts on the rest of these proposals baring the Bakerloop & Streatham to Eltham ones so might as well stick it all down -
Harrow to Barnet, via Edgware - I think this is one with some potential and I think a link via Edgware is the right way to run. The Harrow to Edgware section could go a few ways - via the 186, via the 340 or via Kingsbury & the 79 so be interesting to see which way they go. Between Edgware & Barnet, I'd like to see (but I doubt I will) the 384 be returned to it's former routing (terminate at Quinta Drive and restore it's previous routing between Barnet & Cockfosters) so this new route can take on that role much more effectively. Stand space at Harrow is already at a premium so what will happen there?
Barnet to Stratford, via Enfield and Chingford - I think this also has potential but not all the way to Stratford and I think Chingford or even Woodford should be as far as it goes. I do hope the 307 isn't cut to make way for this though. The Chingford to Stratford section I don't think is workable for an express route that would get bogged down on slow, single carriageway roads and I'd not go-ahead with that section.
Leytonstone to South Havering, via Gants Hill and Romford - Another with some potential IMO though I'm not sure about Leytonstone which is awful to navigate plus does it need to duplicate the entire 66 - I rather send it to Crooked Billet (as Walthamstow lacks stand space), run through Walthamstow and via the 257 picking the route up at Green Man Roundabout and then follow the A12 directly. Not sure what part of South Havering it should go however?
North Greenwich to Thamesmead, via Woolwich - Not a fan of this one. The 472 isn't a slow route (it even has some express sections IIRC) nor does this offer anything unique that the 472 offers already.
‘Bakerloop line’: Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, via Old Kent Road and New Cross - Not a fan of this one either, essentially just a railway replacement service for a railway that not only doesn't exist but should of been built decades ago. Old Kent Road is quite wide in places but I really don't think it's necessary at all.
Streatham to Eltham, via Tulse Hill and Lee - I'll keep this brief as I've previously spoken but I remain unconvinced by this one simply because there is a lot that can wrong over this route and if ran via the A205 which I imagine will be the routing it takes, it's restricted to single deckers.
Richmond to Wimbledon, via Roehampton - Another one that I remain unconvinced by for similar reasons to the Streatham to Eltham route though with less chance for things to go wrong. The A205 over most of it really is a extremely challenging road to operate services along and the section the 493 takes has gotten worse since the Hammersmith Bridge shut. I also worry about the 493 which is a key route in this part of the world.
Ealing Broadway to Kingston, via Great West Road and Richmond - This might be the worst of the lot as the 65 really doesn't have the roads for a fast express service to run along and really what the 65 needs is reliable assistance from another standard route IMO rather than a limited stop route that gets bogged down in places.
Hounslow to Hammersmith, via Great West Road - This I think has some potential if ran via the A4 from Hammersmith rather than sit in traffic along Chiswick High Road but I actually would extend it to Heathrow either directly via Bath Road or even via Hounslow East & then Central back onto the A4. The H91 should be able to still exist alongside.
Hendon to Ealing Broadway, via Brent Cross and Hanger Lane - Possible potential in this though Hendon seems an odd place to terminate it, maybe pull it back to Brent Cross West but even then, I still feel something is missing to an extent but not sure what?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 24, 2024 0:47:58 GMT
Ah thank you for the reminder of the low bridge in the Tulse Hill area! So single decks will have to make up the allocation for that route. Hopefully full size electric single decks will be allocated but knowing TFL 70 capacity single decks will probably be chosen. It will be interesting to see if SL16* (Streatham to Eltham route) where it would be operated from if it comes becomes a reality as there is no obvious garage along its route. The only garages I can think of that are near its route are Brixton and Catford which is why I suggested Arriva could operate it. I really hope this route terminate in Streatham station maybe route P13 could move out to the St. Leonard's Church stand? * = my suggested Superloop number for the Streatham - Eltham route, there is no confirmation yet on its route numberIf any stands had to move, I'd prefer to see something like the 60 move to Streatham Hill or St Leonard's - although neither would be ideal. I'd see it as a backwards move taking the P13 out of the Station termini The 60 is the only logical choice to move IMO - Ambleside Avenue is probably more feasible being just down the road but that stand isn't really ideal for high frequency routes. Streatham Hill Station would take the 60 back past the main shopping area for the first time since 1998 with the bottleneck between St Leonard's & Becmead Avenue being my only concern - if the 60 can handle that, I'd go fully on board for Streatham Hill Station as it would bring some extra benefits and potentially remove a change of bus at Tescos for some people. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2024 6:53:52 GMT
If any stands had to move, I'd prefer to see something like the 60 move to Streatham Hill or St Leonard's - although neither would be ideal. I'd see it as a backwards move taking the P13 out of the Station termini The 60 is the only logical choice to move IMO - Ambleside Avenue is probably more feasible being just down the road but that stand isn't really ideal for high frequency routes. Streatham Hill Station would take the 60 back past the main shopping area for the first time since 1998 with the bottleneck between St Leonard's & Becmead Avenue being my only concern - if the 60 can handle that, I'd go fully on board for Streatham Hill Station as it would bring some extra benefits and potentially remove a change of bus at Tescos for some people. That would definitely be ideal and may even take some pressure off the 109 from Thornton Heath but with the 60 now already taking close to 80 mins would probably be to much. The 50 was transformed in 2003 when it was extended and I was so glad for it as Streatham Station has always been a a poor choice for a route from the south. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2024 7:01:58 GMT
If any stands had to move, I'd prefer to see something like the 60 move to Streatham Hill or St Leonard's - although neither would be ideal. I'd see it as a backwards move taking the P13 out of the Station termini The 60 is the only logical choice to move IMO - Ambleside Avenue is probably more feasible being just down the road but that stand isn't really ideal for high frequency routes. Streatham Hill Station would take the 60 back past the main shopping area for the first time since 1998 with the bottleneck between St Leonard's & Becmead Avenue being my only concern - if the 60 can handle that, I'd go fully on board for Streatham Hill Station as it would bring some extra benefits and potentially remove a change of bus at Tescos for some people. Am I wrong of I'm sure the 133 once stood at St Leonard's like the 319. Was it when the 50 was extended that the 133 could fit at Streatham Station? |
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Post by MKAY315 on Apr 24, 2024 7:08:24 GMT
The 60 is the only logical choice to move IMO - Ambleside Avenue is probably more feasible being just down the road but that stand isn't really ideal for high frequency routes. Streatham Hill Station would take the 60 back past the main shopping area for the first time since 1998 with the bottleneck between St Leonard's & Becmead Avenue being my only concern - if the 60 can handle that, I'd go fully on board for Streatham Hill Station as it would bring some extra benefits and potentially remove a change of bus at Tescos for some people. Am I wrong of I'm sure the 133 once stood at St Leonard's like the 319. Was it when the 50 was extended that the 133 could fit at Streatham Station? Not quite so it's split into two parts. So the 133 used to go to Tooting Broadway up until 2003 and then it got cut back to St Leonard's Church with the 333 taking it's place. It got extended to Streatham Station in 2012, the 50 was extended via the old 255 (which used to go as far as Clapham Common) to Stockwell in 2008 and the 255 only went as far as Streatham Hill (where the 50 used to terminate) there was something that also happened in 1998 as well but I only vaguely know that it affected the 60, 50 and 255. Someone else on here would be better placed to answer that for us. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 24, 2024 7:36:20 GMT
The 60 is the only logical choice to move IMO - Ambleside Avenue is probably more feasible being just down the road but that stand isn't really ideal for high frequency routes. Streatham Hill Station would take the 60 back past the main shopping area for the first time since 1998 with the bottleneck between St Leonard's & Becmead Avenue being my only concern - if the 60 can handle that, I'd go fully on board for Streatham Hill Station as it would bring some extra benefits and potentially remove a change of bus at Tescos for some people. Am I wrong of I'm sure the 133 once stood at St Leonard's like the 319. Was it when the 50 was extended that the 133 could fit at Streatham Station? The 133 stood at St Leonard's until the Tesco/leisure centre development opened around 2012 incorporating the larger bus terminal as the old LT garage only handled the 60, 159 and P13. When the 50 got extended to Stockwell in 2008 it swapped with the 255 which terminated at Streatham Hill stn until 2014 when it finally got extended to Balham. Now I know new developments tend to get a lot of stick but that was an excellent one for that area as it not only incorporated a new supermarket but also new flats, a new leisure centre and a vastly improved bus terminal as well as making the 133 route more useful with no extra resources being needed. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 24, 2024 11:45:59 GMT
Am I wrong of I'm sure the 133 once stood at St Leonard's like the 319. Was it when the 50 was extended that the 133 could fit at Streatham Station? Not quite so it's split into two parts. So the 133 used to go to Tooting Broadway up until 2003 and then it got cut back to St Leonard's Church with the 333 taking it's place. It got extended to Streatham Station in 2012, the 50 was extended via the old 255 (which used to go as far as Clapham Common) to Stockwell in 2008 and the 255 only went as far as Streatham Hill (where the 50 used to terminate) there was something that also happened in 1998 as well but I only vaguely know that it affected the 60, 50 and 255. Someone else on here would be better placed to answer that for us. The 1998 change involved the 60 being withdrawn between Streatham & Clapham Common with the new 255 replacing it, the 109 being withdrawn between Purley & Croydon (among other 109 changes) with the 60 extended from South Croydon Bus Garage to Old Coulsdon and the 50 being cut back to South Croydon, Swan & Sugar Loaf from Old Coulsdon, which was also replaced by the 60’s extension. |
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