|
Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2013 21:17:31 GMT
Well yes it was daft but there were plenty of similar nonsenses - local to me were the 34 and 212 with Darts. Trying to squash on to the 34 in the peaks when run by County Bus was awful. These days a single decker on the 34 couldn't cope with Sunday loadings never mind weekday ones. The 212 took an inordinate time to convert to double deck - god knows why when people had their noses against the windscreen when leaving Walthamstow and buses were so full in the AM peak you couldn't board buses on Fulbourne Road. It would only have taken a few days of observations for TfL to be confident that double deck conversion was essential. Having just been to Liverpool what was interesting was the huge amount of single deckers in use in what, 25 years ago, was a double decker city. I only saw a small glimpse of the PM peak but many single decks were full and standing leaving the City Centre even on routes with very high (every 3-5 mins) frequencies. It struck me as a bit mad when double deckers would offer more capacity probably with fewer buses with only a slight reduction in frequency. Perhaps continuing to use single deckers allows the bus companies to create the illusion of "full buses" when in the past they would have been running full double deckers just as frequently? It still seems odd that TfL still have something of a "phobia" or reluctance to convert routes to double deckers (where practical & justified), especially as there has been a consistent surplus of TfL spec double deckers for many months. It does strike me as very odd. There's a huge number of routes perfectly ripe for double deck conversion yet are lumped with single deckers over and over again. The 126 is one of them, the D8 is another (I'm aware there's issues around Stratford City but nonetheless the route could be diverted somehow). The 407 can get very packed, as can the 202, etc. What's even more odd in the case of the 202 is that when new buses were delayed, there were Omnidekkas used temporarily on the route which worked much better! Down this way, the 289, 355 could of done with deckers but my pleas to TfL were not even listened too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 21:22:40 GMT
It does strike me as very odd. There's a huge number of routes perfectly ripe for double deck conversion yet are lumped with single deckers over and over again. The 126 is one of them, the D8 is another (I'm aware there's issues around Stratford City but nonetheless the route could be diverted somehow). The 407 can get very packed, as can the 202, etc. What's even more odd in the case of the 202 is that when new buses were delayed, there were Omnidekkas used temporarily on the route which worked much better! Down this way, the 289, 355 could of done with deckers but my pleas to TfL were not even listened too. My personal hope is that the 355 will get them when the contract renews as there'll be new buses needed anyway.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2013 21:30:31 GMT
Down this way, the 289, 355 could of done with deckers but my pleas to TfL were not even listened too. My personal hope is that the 355 will get them when the contract renews as there'll be new buses needed anyway. Same, I wonder if there is any route that could take the 289's ENX's whilst it gets some older T's from North,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 21:31:00 GMT
It does strike me as very odd. There's a huge number of routes perfectly ripe for double deck conversion yet are lumped with single deckers over and over again. The 126 is one of them, the D8 is another (I'm aware there's issues around Stratford City but nonetheless the route could be diverted somehow). The 407 can get very packed, as can the 202, etc. What's even more odd in the case of the 202 is that when new buses were delayed, there were Omnidekkas used temporarily on the route which worked much better! Down this way, the 289, 355 could of done with deckers but my pleas to TfL were not even listened too. The 289 and 313 could be easily converted with the DLAs/DLPs leaving London. The ENXs could then be moved to other routes. And I'm sure there's enough spare DDs to convert the 355. It's rediculous these routes haven't been converted yet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 21:43:27 GMT
Down this way, the 289, 355 could of done with deckers but my pleas to TfL were not even listened too. The 289 and 313 could be easily converted with the DLAs/DLPs leaving London. The ENXs could then be moved to other routes. And I'm sure there's enough spare DDs to convert the 355. It's rediculous these route haven't been converted yet. I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... The 313 theoretically shouldn't be a problem as a decker is provided when it's needed most - as an SDO working.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Feb 25, 2013 21:52:10 GMT
The 289 and 313 could be easily converted with the DLAs/DLPs leaving London. The ENXs could then be moved to other routes. And I'm sure there's enough spare DDs to convert the 355. It's rediculous these route haven't been converted yet. I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... As ideal as that would be those older 52 reg WVLs are likely to be returned off lease after their various temporary covers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 22:41:43 GMT
The 289 and 313 could be easily converted with the DLAs/DLPs leaving London. The ENXs could then be moved to other routes. And I'm sure there's enough spare DDs to convert the 355. It's rediculous these route haven't been converted yet. I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... The 313 theoretically shouldn't be a problem as a decker is provided when it's needed most - as an SDO working. Overcrowding is an issue on the 313, the AM and PM DD school working is not enough. The times I've seen people getting left at bus stops since the ENXs arrived. Before that, plenty of DLP and S reg DLA workings, never any issues back then. Should be more of a priority to convert this route rather than the 289. If the ENX's were to be moved, the 255 would be a good candidate. One was on it last year with no problems, though I can't see the Yorkshire Road loop round Pollards Hill being much fun.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2013 22:49:44 GMT
I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... The 313 theoretically shouldn't be a problem as a decker is provided when it's needed most - as an SDO working. Overcrowding is an issue on the 313, the AM and PM DD school working is not enough. The times I've seen people getting left at bus stops since the ENXs arrived. Before that, plenty of DLP and S reg DLA workings, never any issues back then. Should be more of a priority to convert this route rather than the 289. If the ENX's were to be moved, the 255 would be a good candidate. One was on it last year with no problems, though I can't see the Yorkshire Road loop round Pollards Hill being much fun. Not if the extension goes ahead, best to leave the 255 to plough on with the lovely DWL's till end of contract. Am I right in thinking the 255 has never had new buses?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 22:49:56 GMT
I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... As ideal as that would be those older 52 reg WVLs are likely to be returned off lease after their various temporary covers. Indeed. The older PVLs are probably too old now. Displaced refurb PVLs could be used but the 355's contract renewal comes in only a year after they would become available.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 22:54:24 GMT
I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... The 313 theoretically shouldn't be a problem as a decker is provided when it's needed most - as an SDO working. Overcrowding is an issue on the 313, the AM and PM DD school working is not enough. The times I've seen people getting left at bus stops since the ENXs arrived. Before that, plenty of DLP and S reg DLA workings, never any issues back then. Should be more of a priority to convert this route rather than the 289. If the ENX's were to be moved, the 255 would be a good candidate. One was on it last year with no problems, though I can't see the Yorkshire Road loop round Pollards Hill being much fun. To be honest, if the 133 were to be converted to hybrids there'd be enough Ts to cover both the 289 and the 313, and enough left over to then cover the 412's new contract. Similarly the conversion of the 159 would free up some VLAs and Mk I DWs with a few more years in them. Central London hybrid conversions are probably going to free up a large amount of reusable stock with operators and I hope that some of it will go to DD conversions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 22:58:18 GMT
Overcrowding is an issue on the 313, the AM and PM DD school working is not enough. The times I've seen people getting left at bus stops since the ENXs arrived. Before that, plenty of DLP and S reg DLA workings, never any issues back then. Should be more of a priority to convert this route rather than the 289. If the ENX's were to be moved, the 255 would be a good candidate. One was on it last year with no problems, though I can't see the Yorkshire Road loop round Pollards Hill being much fun. Not if the extension goes ahead, best to leave the 255 to plough on with the lovely DWL's till end of contract. Am I right in thinking the 255 has never had new buses? I think it was ENX14 that was on the 255 early last year.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2013 23:06:04 GMT
Not if the extension goes ahead, best to leave the 255 to plough on with the lovely DWL's till end of contract. Am I right in thinking the 255 has never had new buses? I think it was ENX14 that was on the 255 early last year. Sorry, meant its own new buses From memory, it inherited step Darts when the 255 was created in 1998 It then inherited DDL1-18 from the 412 when it gained DW's It then inherited DWL1-9 from the 166 plus ones from North London.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Feb 25, 2013 23:17:51 GMT
I doubt the 289 would last until 2017 with those older DLAs, though if something newer becomes available I think it should be converted, or failing that, come contract renewal in 2017. Conversions to hybrid of Central London routes may provide something newer in 2015 - e.g. the Ts on the 133, which could then operate on the route for 2 and a half years - and the rest of the Ts could go to TC for the new contract on the 412, etc. As for the 355: there must be some older WVLs becoming spare at Merton that could used to convert the route. I hope when new buses are bought they're deckers, and we don't see another situation with the D6/D8, where routes that really needed deckers instead got more single deckers... The 313 theoretically shouldn't be a problem as a decker is provided when it's needed most - as an SDO working. Overcrowding is an issue on the 313, the AM and PM DD school working is not enough. The times I've seen people getting left at bus stops since the ENXs arrived. Before that, plenty of DLP and S reg DLA workings, never any issues back then. Should be more of a priority to convert this route rather than the 289. If the ENX's were to be moved, the 255 would be a good candidate. One was on it last year with no problems, though I can't see the Yorkshire Road loop round Pollards Hill being much fun. Long wheel base buses are no problem at all on the Yorkshire Road loop as the 152 regularly use the 157's 10.6m Volvos along those same roads. On top of that some of the 152's single deckers are 10.8m anyway, as were the PDLs that were on the 255. Speaking of the route, what happened with the order for the new buses? Was the finance diverted elsewhere or does the order still exist pending the unfateful Balham extension?
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Feb 25, 2013 23:28:43 GMT
I have honestly never seen a busy 289. are loadings that heavy on the route to wrrant a DD conversion.
The 355 is a tough one as I have used it a few times from Brixton and its been full yet has emptied by Kings Ave and between Tooing and Mitcham there is sufficient capacity on the 264, 270 and 280 plus even the 127.
|
|
|
Post by paulsw2 on Feb 25, 2013 23:59:36 GMT
Back in the 90s the 109 had one experimental heavy duty DAF single decker, a somewhat standard floor version to an Enviro300. If I remember correctly that bus was based at TH. Before that, in 1970, a SMS was used from TH as an early Sunday morning OMO. I'm looking at a picture of SMS255, text says it was introduced Nov 1970, and converted to DMS March 1974. if I can put it on the page I will There was actually 2 SMS allocated to the early sunday morning journeys 1 went via Westminster the other via Blackfriars to Embankment These duties were rostered to the 64 rota
|
|