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Post by overgroundcommuter on Apr 4, 2022 13:24:10 GMT
As I mentioned in the Central London bus cuts thread, I believe the travel patterns have changed immensely on the 12 with passengers from Dulwich along Barry Road preferring to change at Peckham Rye for London Overground and Thameslink trains into Zone 1 than go at a snails pace along Peckham Road and Walworth Road into Zone 1. With the 197, there's still 10bph between Dulwich and Peckham.
IMHO the loads on the 176 and 185 which also serve Zone 1 from Dulwich have returned to near pre-pandemic levels from my own observations with even heavy loads on Sundays as a contributing factor.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 28, 2022 22:42:22 GMT
The 12's issue of going round the long way to Dulwich wasn't so much an issue until the 176 replaced the southern section of the route between Dulwich and Penge in 1988. Then it lost the useful Oxford Circus to Notting Hill Gate section (It was also cut from Shepherd's Bush Green to Notting Hill).
It wasn't so much of an issue until the rail services improved from Peckham Rye with what I suspect from Dulwich is being used as a feeder route along with the 197 to take passengers from Dulwich to the train station (Dulwich Library also has passengers who use the 176, 185 and 197 to Forest Hill, another London Overground station), so the demand for commuting from Barry Road to Zone 1 by bus has lessened, not helped by 20mph limits and increased traffic.
The Dulwich terminus seems to be purely for operational convenience these days and the two stands in Friern Road and Lordship Lane for the 12 look more archaic than ever when they were designed for high frequency artics for a route that will have the same frequency as the 197.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 28, 2022 17:19:53 GMT
Staggering that the 12 which at one point had a very high frequency will have less bph than the 176 which was cut to 6bph in Dulwich.
However with the 197, there will still be 10bph between Dulwich and Peckham along Barry Road.
I think the Overground service from Peckham Rye is another factor which is a more attractive proposition than going at a snail's pace through Peckham, Camberwell and Walworth to reach central London.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 16, 2022 23:41:57 GMT
I remember when Croydon used to have bus routes going to Guildford, East Grinstead, Crawley and Dartford, but Redhill, Epsom and Heathrow seems to be it these days.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 16, 2022 0:47:18 GMT
363 towards Elephant & Castle has great views into Central London from Sydenham Hill. As an aside, I remember when the 63 served Sydenham Hill with Titans and they'd take forever to get up the hill!
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 12, 2022 17:37:56 GMT
Like others, I agree that the return of the X53 will happen.
I wouldn't mind seeing a X176. All stops between Penge and East Dulwich Goose Green, then fast to Elephant and all stops to Tottenham Court Road which would relieve the all stopping 176, plus the 185 and 40.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 12, 2022 3:03:35 GMT
All the routes that run through Camberwell Green could be operated out of Q or WL.
I'll give this a go with some local routes.
P4:
Stockwell (SW)
Brixton (BN)
Norwood (N)
Camberwell (Q)
Walworth (WL)
Peckham (PM)
New Cross (NX)
Kangley Bridge (KB)
Catford (TL)
197:
Peckham (PM)
New Cross (NX)
Camberwell (Q)
Walworth (WL)
Catford (TL)
Thornton Heath (TH)
Croydon (TC)
Croydon (Beddington) (C)
Beddington (BC)
185:
Battersea (QB)
Stockwell (SW)
Camberwell (Q)
Walworth (WL)
Peckham (PM)
Norwood (N)
New Cross (NX)
Catford (TL)
176:
New Cross (NX)
Camberwell (Q)
Walworth (WL)
Norwood (N)
Catford (TL)
I've ignored Waterloo due to the Mon-Fri restrictions and lack of stand space.
P13:
New Cross (NX)
Peckham (PM)
Camberwell (Q)
Walworth (WL)
Norwood (N)
Brixton (BN)
Thornton Heath (TH)
Beddington (BC)
Croydon (TC)
Croydon (C)
356:
Croydon (TC)
Croydon (C)
Beddington (BC)
Bromley (TB)
Catford (TL)
Kangley Bridge (KB)
122:
Plumstead (PB)
Catford (TL)
New Cross (NX)
Norwood (N)
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 12, 2022 2:34:56 GMT
78: Abellio GAL Arriva Tower Transit HCT Stagecoach Metroline 78 was also operated by London & Country and London Links. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 12, 2022 2:33:30 GMT
185:
Stagecoach Selkent
London Easylink (Hired Selkent Titans when they took over initially)
Blue Triangle who organised the emergency service involving numerous operators after Easylink went bust.
East Thames Buses
GAL (London Central)
176:
London & Country (The early days saw them hire buses from South Yorkshire Transport)
London Links
Cowie/Arriva South London
GAL (London Central)
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 12, 2022 2:26:57 GMT
Brixton has had an expansive network for many years due to the passenger flow in & out of the Victoria Line but also due to the high demand of the A23 corridor Bit of a shame there isn’t any decent east to west links in South London though especially when you consider it’s only the 37/345, perhaps one way to rectify this could be through getting the Overground to stop at Brixton? Don’t know how likely that is though. The P4 to a lesser extent connects Brixton to SE London at Lewisham. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 17, 2022 21:07:23 GMT
Route 78 started off being Shoreditch to West Wickham, extended to Croydon Airport on Sundays, curtailed first to Lower Sydenham, then Dulwich The Grove, later Dulwich The Plough, later extended to Forest Hill, then cut to Peckham Rye and then extended to Nunhead.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 17, 2022 20:54:27 GMT
Route 185 has stayed the same since 1987 when it was lost the peak hours extension to Greenwich, but the core route is the same as it was when it launched in 1951. I'm being a bit pedantic but I remember a time when the 185 couldn't turn right at Camberwell Green and had to turn left and go round the one way system that was in place then. Also a short lived Saturday only 185A that went to Elephant & Castle. I think the 185 is still fine as it is and I can't think of any change that would improve it. 24 hour would be a benefit as Forest Hill is cut off from Catford and Lewisham overnight, but it would lead to the section between Camberwell and Forest Hill being overbussed along with the 176. I also remember the 185A which was operated out of Q which provided much needed extra capacity between Camberwell and Lewisham. It was axed for an increased PVR on the 185 on Saturdays. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 15, 2022 23:43:56 GMT
Route 185 has stayed the same since 1987 when it was lost the peak hours extension to Greenwich, but the core route is the same as it was when it launched in 1951.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 25, 2022 21:39:49 GMT
BBC London news report.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 15, 2022 21:09:16 GMT
Routes 12, 36, 363 and 436 have stayed with London Central.
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