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Post by TB123 on Apr 6, 2020 12:38:27 GMT
Some good choices. Keir hitting the ground running already. Proof is in the opinion polls shifting, the party culture changing and good performances in future local elections. You do seem overly optimistic about this all, it's still early days and not to mention the next election is another 4 and a bit years away so there's a long way to go. I think Keir Starmer is a better leader than Corbyn but he has a lot of work to do if he has any hope of ousting Boris. I don't see it but we shall see if he can convince me, something which Labour failed hugely to do in the last election. Something which irked me slightly with him was something I saw on the news today, in which he said the government hadn't got enough PPE for healthcare workers or something like that, I'm sorry but what would he have done differently to ensure this especially with the rapid change in this pandemic? The government are doing their best, and although it may not be enough, there are huge logistical challenges with getting this distributed to everyone fighting COVID-19 I'm afraid the PPE issue is quite a problem - it's something for which the govt was woefully prepared at the start of this pandemic, and there are some horror stories coming out from NHS staff about the sheer lack of appropriate equipment which needs sorting. Keir is right to point that out imo - nurses and doctors aren't the sort to moan needlessly unlike some other professions - so I normally tend to take what they say to be an acceptable barometer of the situation. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 6, 2020 15:45:11 GMT
The NHS and PHE should have been better prepared for a pandemic like this. It was only a matter of time. We should have had enough PPE. The last 10 years of cuts and the idiotic herd immunity strategy Boris championed around 3 weeks ago has led deaths which were preventable. Everyday at these useless press conferences questions are dodged. This is not a time to lie to public about the mistakes the government has made. We should be doing hundreds of thousands of tests a day yet the government seems to have no idea why we are not. We are being governed by fools. And of course it would all be so much better with Jeremy Corbyn in charge right? No, likely worse but that doesn’t take away that the Government have dithered and dallied and were warned to prepare for a pandemic as far back as 2008 with the last warning coming last year. Austerity has contributed greatly to this as many experts agree |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 6, 2020 16:13:41 GMT
Keir has made a few changes to the shadow cabinet. John McDonnell and Diane Abbott had already resigned. Keir has sacked Barry Gardiner, Ian Lavery and Jon Trickett. Anneliese Dodds is now shadow Chancellor. Rachel Reeves is now shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Nick Thomas-Symonds is now shadow Home Secretary. Jon Ashworth unsurprisingly remains shadow Home Secretary. Angela Rayner becomes Labour party chair. Lisa Nandy is now shadow Foreign Secretary. I thought she might be appointed shadow Communities Secretary. Emily Thornberry is reported to be staying in the shadow cabinet, with a portfolio to be announced tomorrow together with other appointments. It is rumoured that Rebecca Long-Bailey will be shadow Leader of the House. Some good choices. Keir hitting the ground running already. Proof is in the opinion polls shifting, the party culture changing and good performances in future local elections. I thought Jon Ashworth was Shadow Health Secretary? Having Rebecca Long-Bailey as shadow Leader of the House would be a shrewd move, as it could help to keep the more left-wing MPs and other elements of the party onside. Sir Keir's job will also be made easier by the fact that his supporters are now a majority on the National Executive Committee - which was somewhat unexpected, but it reduces the opportunity for Momentum to cause trouble within the Party. Now that he is in a position to do so, Sir Kier can start holding the Government to account (which is what an Opposition Leader does) for their failures during the coronavirus pandemic, failures serious enough to call the Government before a Public Enquiry so that the mistakes can be learned from for a future emergency. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 6, 2020 16:21:11 GMT
Some good choices. Keir hitting the ground running already. Proof is in the opinion polls shifting, the party culture changing and good performances in future local elections. I thought Jon Ashworth was Shadow Health Secretary? Having Rebecca Long-Bailey as shadow Leader of the House would be a shrewd move, as it could help to keep the more left-wing MPs and other elements of the party onside. Sir Keir's job will also be made easier by the fact that his supporters are now a majority on the National Executive Committee - which was somewhat unexpected, but it reduces the opportunity for Momentum to cause trouble within the Party. Now that he is in a position to do so, Sir Kier can start holding the Government to account (which is what an Opposition Leader does) for their failures during the coronavirus pandemic, failures serious enough to call the Government before a Public Enquiry so that the mistakes can be learned from for a future emergency. Rebecca Long Bailey has been appointed shadow education secretary - wise for Keir to give big jobs to both his leadership rivals. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 6, 2020 16:44:35 GMT
You do seem overly optimistic about this all, it's still early days and not to mention the next election is another 4 and a bit years away so there's a long way to go. I think Keir Starmer is a better leader than Corbyn but he has a lot of work to do if he has any hope of ousting Boris. I don't see it but we shall see if he can convince me, something which Labour failed hugely to do in the last election. Something which irked me slightly with him was something I saw on the news today, in which he said the government hadn't got enough PPE for healthcare workers or something like that, I'm sorry but what would he have done differently to ensure this especially with the rapid change in this pandemic? The government are doing their best, and although it may not be enough, there are huge logistical challenges with getting this distributed to everyone fighting COVID-19 I'm afraid the PPE issue is quite a problem - it's something for which the govt was woefully prepared at the start of this pandemic, and there are some horror stories coming out from NHS staff about the sheer lack of appropriate equipment which needs sorting. Keir is right to point that out imo - nurses and doctors aren't the sort to moan needlessly unlike some other professions - so I normally tend to take what they say to be an acceptable barometer of the situation. Nobody could have predicted how bad COVID-19 was going to be in the UK, especially with things rapidly changing hence why there was a lack of PPE in the first place. It's a weak argument. Over the last week I've seen multiple cargo flights arriving into the UK carrying tons of PPE, mainly from China so the Government are doing what they can to protect front-line workers as far as I'm aware. Although it could be argued that they're not being distributed quick enough, as I said before it's a huge and somewhat unprecedented logistical challenge to distribute PPE to every hospital and worker fighting Coronavirus across the country, so what could a labour government (or anyone else) have done differently to what the government are currently doing to supply PPE? Of course though, there are many things that the government could do better should an emergency like this happen again and I'm sure funding will go into getting the country better prepared if another outbreak were to hit further down the line, particularly in the NHS which had been crying out for extra funding for some time if I recall. |
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Post by 725DYE on Apr 6, 2020 18:19:35 GMT
I thought Jon Ashworth was Shadow Health Secretary? Having Rebecca Long-Bailey as shadow Leader of the House would be a shrewd move, as it could help to keep the more left-wing MPs and other elements of the party onside. Sir Keir's job will also be made easier by the fact that his supporters are now a majority on the National Executive Committee - which was somewhat unexpected, but it reduces the opportunity for Momentum to cause trouble within the Party. Now that he is in a position to do so, Sir Kier can start holding the Government to account (which is what an Opposition Leader does) for their failures during the coronavirus pandemic, failures serious enough to call the Government before a Public Enquiry so that the mistakes can be learned from for a future emergency. Rebecca Long Bailey has been appointed shadow education secretary - wise for Keir to give big jobs to both his leadership rivals. I wouldn't really call it wise or uniwise - but nice to see that they have gracefully accepted nonetheless. Personally however, if Starmer wants to break away from the hard left of the party which has developed over the last 4 and a half years, appointing someone who called Corbyn a "10/10 leader" to the shadow cabinet is a bit of a foolish move. Also of note - Miliband becomes shadow business secretary |
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Post by rif153 on Apr 6, 2020 18:33:10 GMT
I think Starmer is an improvement on his predecessor. He's not the best but I certainly think he can provide effective opposition to Boris Johnson (I don't think Labour have been an effective opposition under Corbyn) and he seems more moderate which hopefully means he will implement electable policies to rebuild Labour to get it into a better position than it is in now, the one fear I have is that he may be caught in a factional war. He cleared the decks with the shadow cabinet but giving Long Bailey a role is a clever move as it emphasises unity and as a ''token Corbynite'' hopefully will appease the hard left.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 7, 2020 20:49:44 GMT
And of course it would all be so much better with Jeremy Corbyn in charge right? No, likely worse but that doesn’t take away that the Government have dithered and dallied and were warned to prepare for a pandemic as far back as 2008 with the last warning coming last year. Austerity has contributed greatly to this as many experts agree I guess it then did the same to many other countries around the world. Sorry, but this is rubbish, there are many countries around the world caught with their pants down. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 7, 2020 20:52:14 GMT
No, likely worse but that doesn’t take away that the Government have dithered and dallied and were warned to prepare for a pandemic as far back as 2008 with the last warning coming last year. Austerity has contributed greatly to this as many experts agree I guess it then did the same to many other countries around the world. Sorry, but this is rubbish, there are many countries around the world caught with their pants down. Never said Britain wasn't the only one who were slow but the conversation was specifically British centric. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 7, 2020 20:55:47 GMT
I think Keir will provide more articulate and informed opposition than recent Labour leaders. He would be a safe pair of hands for people wanting a change of government next time. He might not be as popular a celebrity as Boris though. I understand that route 73 passes 4 successive constituencies of well-known Labour MPs: Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott. Talking of Diane, she had announced she would be standing down from the Shadow Cabinet and reiterated this on her Twitter page earlier. I think Diane Abbot has lost the plot over the years. Around 20+ years ago, I would have rate her. Now she has become stale and well past her sell by date that she was talking stuff that made no sense. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 7, 2020 20:59:15 GMT
Keir has made a few changes to the shadow cabinet. John McDonnell and Diane Abbott had already resigned. Keir has sacked Barry Gardiner, Ian Lavery and Jon Trickett. Anneliese Dodds is now shadow Chancellor. Rachel Reeves is now shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Nick Thomas-Symonds is now shadow Home Secretary. Jon Ashworth unsurprisingly remains shadow Home Secretary. Angela Rayner becomes Labour party chair. Lisa Nandy is now shadow Foreign Secretary. I thought she might be appointed shadow Communities Secretary. Emily Thornberry is reported to be staying in the shadow cabinet, with a portfolio to be announced tomorrow together with other appointments. It is rumoured that Rebecca Long-Bailey will be shadow Leader of the House. Some good choices. Keir hitting the ground running already. Proof is in the opinion polls shifting, the party culture changing and good performances in future local elections. Hmmm seems like you have a crystal ball, any chance on this Saturdays Lotto numbers...
That kind of mindset is what got the Labour government where they are in the first place. It isn't just about winning on social media and university campuses.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 7, 2020 21:10:17 GMT
You do seem overly optimistic about this all, it's still early days and not to mention the next election is another 4 and a bit years away so there's a long way to go. I think Keir Starmer is a better leader than Corbyn but he has a lot of work to do if he has any hope of ousting Boris. I don't see it but we shall see if he can convince me, something which Labour failed hugely to do in the last election. Something which irked me slightly with him was something I saw on the news today, in which he said the government hadn't got enough PPE for healthcare workers or something like that, I'm sorry but what would he have done differently to ensure this especially with the rapid change in this pandemic? The government are doing their best, and although it may not be enough, there are huge logistical challenges with getting this distributed to everyone fighting COVID-19 The NHS and PHE should have been better prepared for a pandemic like this. It was only a matter of time. We should have had enough PPE. The last 10 years of cuts and the idiotic herd immunity strategy Boris championed around 3 weeks ago has led deaths which were preventable. Everyday at these useless press conferences questions are dodged. This is not a time to lie to public about the mistakes the government has made. We should be doing hundreds of thousands of tests a day yet the government seems to have no idea why we are not. We are being governed by fools. There was enough PPE to start with, trouble is the logistics of it, that it was stuck in warehouses, most of the usual medical delivery firms were not up to the scale of shifting it en masse, then some were also sick or isolating, it took the army to get most of it out. The next problem the world got punished with is so many products come from China, over the past few months a lot of supplies were cut back due to the epidemic they initially had.
I think the tests do nothing imo, if I already have symptoms there is nothing the test can do for me, it is not a cure. I have seen it been said so much times about testing, but really cant see much coming out of it. The one thing many countries are not doing what the Chinese did, apart from testing, is masks for the public.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 7, 2020 22:21:14 GMT
Some good choices. Keir hitting the ground running already. Proof is in the opinion polls shifting, the party culture changing and good performances in future local elections. Hmmm seems like you have a crystal ball, any chance on this Saturdays Lotto numbers...
That kind of mindset is what got the Labour government where they are in the first place. It isn't just about winning on social media and university campuses.
Not a crystal ball - just my own views. And the proof is in the pudding in my view, in terms of tangible progress. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 8, 2020 1:23:37 GMT
The NHS and PHE should have been better prepared for a pandemic like this. It was only a matter of time. We should have had enough PPE. The last 10 years of cuts and the idiotic herd immunity strategy Boris championed around 3 weeks ago has led deaths which were preventable. Everyday at these useless press conferences questions are dodged. This is not a time to lie to public about the mistakes the government has made. We should be doing hundreds of thousands of tests a day yet the government seems to have no idea why we are not. We are being governed by fools. There was enough PPE to start with, trouble is the logistics of it, that it was stuck in warehouses, most of the usual medical delivery firms were not up to the scale of shifting it en masse, then some were also sick or isolating, it took the army to get most of it out. The next problem the world got punished with is so many products come from China, over the past few months a lot of supplies were cut back due to the epidemic they initially had.
I think the tests do nothing imo, if I already have symptoms there is nothing the test can do for me, it is not a cure. I have seen it been said so much times about testing, but really cant see much coming out of it. The one thing many countries are not doing what the Chinese did, apart from testing, is masks for the public.
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. |
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Post by Frenzie on Apr 8, 2020 7:42:37 GMT
There was enough PPE to start with, trouble is the logistics of it, that it was stuck in warehouses, most of the usual medical delivery firms were not up to the scale of shifting it en masse, then some were also sick or isolating, it took the army to get most of it out. The next problem the world got punished with is so many products come from China, over the past few months a lot of supplies were cut back due to the epidemic they initially had.
I think the tests do nothing imo, if I already have symptoms there is nothing the test can do for me, it is not a cure. I have seen it been said so much times about testing, but really cant see much coming out of it. The one thing many countries are not doing what the Chinese did, apart from testing, is masks for the public.
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. Just to follow on from that testing also allows us to see what parts of the country have been affected most (and also those affected least). Therefore if we find that some areas have hardly any cases we could have continued with the containment strategy in those areas rather than having a lockdown across the entire country, allowing part of the economy to function as normal. Of course London would still be under lockdown but even so, had the government tested everyone within the first few weeks like South Korea did, we would still be following the containment phase rather than being locked up at home. It’s very easy for me to critique the government for their handling of an unprecedented situation and I have no doubt they are doing their best with the resources available, however, they would be in a much better position to combat this outbreak had the resources not been stripped away at and run down to the bare minimum over the last 10 years. |
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