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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 15:14:53 GMT
Mr Starmer was spot on when he said Hancock's comments on NHS staff using too much PPE was insulting and I wholeheartedly agree - it's a moronic thing to say especially when many health workers still don't have adequate supply or even adequate protection full stop.
I ended up in Kings College on Friday (the hospital with the third most Covid-19 deaths in the UK) and the PPE many have doesn't look too protective to me though I'm far from being an expert but with gloves, mask & goggles, the main bit looks like a bin bag that's worn as an apron. On the news, I've seen doctors at other hospital with much more protective clothing so maybe Mr Hancock can clarify this at some point.
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 11, 2020 15:56:40 GMT
Mr Starmer was spot on when he said Hancock's comments on NHS staff using too much PPE was insulting and I wholeheartedly agree - it's a moronic thing to say especially when many health workers still don't have adequate supply or even adequate protection full stop. I ended up in Kings College on Friday (the hospital with the third most Covid-19 deaths in the UK) and the PPE many have doesn't look too protective to me though I'm far from being an expert but with gloves, mask & goggles, the main bit looks like a bin bag that's worn as an apron. On the news, I've seen doctors at other hospital with much more protective clothing so maybe Mr Hancock can clarify this at some point. Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 16:00:26 GMT
Mr Starmer was spot on when he said Hancock's comments on NHS staff using too much PPE was insulting and I wholeheartedly agree - it's a moronic thing to say especially when many health workers still don't have adequate supply or even adequate protection full stop. I ended up in Kings College on Friday (the hospital with the third most Covid-19 deaths in the UK) and the PPE many have doesn't look too protective to me though I'm far from being an expert but with gloves, mask & goggles, the main bit looks like a bin bag that's worn as an apron. On the news, I've seen doctors at other hospital with much more protective clothing so maybe Mr Hancock can clarify this at some point. Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. Thankfully, I went home the same day, doctors did a great job. I'm still in bed but slowly recovering. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 11, 2020 16:02:39 GMT
Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. Thankfully, I went home the same day, doctors did a great job. I'm still in bed but slowly recovering. I'm pleased to hear you weren't kept in, I wish you all the best for a full recovery. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 11, 2020 18:28:15 GMT
Route 476 has an even better distinction than route 73. Its 5 constituencies are served by 5 well-known MPs:
Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and David Lammy.
I wonder whether many other routes have famous MPs along the whole route? I think the only MPs witl constituencies on route U4 are Boris Johnson and John McDonnell.
Route 337 goes from Battersea via Putney to Richmond Park. I don't think it serves any other constituencies. All these were Conservative in 2015 but have been lost to other parties since then.
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Post by rif153 on Apr 11, 2020 19:11:08 GMT
Route 476 has an even better distinction than route 73. Its 5 constituencies are served by 5 well-known MPs: Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and David Lammy. I wonder whether many other routes have famous MPs along the whole route? I think the only MPs witl constituencies on route U4 are Boris Johnson and John McDonnell. Route 337 goes from Battersea via Putney to Richmond Park. I don't think it serves any other constituencies. All these were Conservative in 2015 but have been lost to other parties since then. The 393 like the 73 serves the constituencies of Keir Starmer, Jeremy Corbyn, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott but the 476 one is better. Near me, route 65 between Ealing and Richmond passes through Ealing Central and Acton, Brentford & Isleworth and Richmond Park all of which were Conservative in 2010 but none are now (alas it does also pass through the very safe Labour seat of Ealing Southall too) and at the southern end of the route Kingston and Surbiton was Conservative 2015-17. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 11, 2020 21:30:34 GMT
Route 476 has an even better distinction than route 73. Its 5 constituencies are served by 5 well-known MPs: Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and David Lammy. I wonder whether many other routes have famous MPs along the whole route? I think the only MPs witl constituencies on route U4 are Boris Johnson and John McDonnell. Route 337 goes from Battersea via Putney to Richmond Park. I don't think it serves any other constituencies. All these were Conservative in 2015 but have been lost to other parties since then. The 393 like the 73 serves the constituencies of Keir Starmer, Jeremy Corbyn, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott but the 476 one is better. Near me, route 65 between Ealing and Richmond passes through Ealing Central and Acton, Brentford & Isleworth and Richmond Park all of which were Conservative in 2010 but none are now (alas it does also pass through the very safe Labour seat of Ealing Southall too) and at the southern end of the route Kingston and Surbiton was Conservative 2015-17. You may well have mentioned all the constituencies served by route 65, as Kingston & Surbiton is IIRC the adjoining one to the south of Richmond Park. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 12, 2020 18:35:14 GMT
Mr Starmer was spot on when he said Hancock's comments on NHS staff using too much PPE was insulting and I wholeheartedly agree - it's a moronic thing to say especially when many health workers still don't have adequate supply or even adequate protection full stop. I ended up in Kings College on Friday (the hospital with the third most Covid-19 deaths in the UK) and the PPE many have doesn't look too protective to me though I'm far from being an expert but with gloves, mask & goggles, the main bit looks like a bin bag that's worn as an apron. On the news, I've seen doctors at other hospital with much more protective clothing so maybe Mr Hancock can clarify this at some point. Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2020 19:28:57 GMT
Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. The difference is anything to do with Saville is wholly irrelevant to the current situation whilst a lack of PPE and the crass comment from Mr Hancock is obviously part of the situation. Starmer has said on many occasions he will work with the government and has spoken to government officials and ministers on a number of occasions on numerous issues since becoming leader of the opposition so your argument that he is scoring points is looking very shaky. Many NHS staff & groups associated also slammed his comments - are they playing political games as well? |
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Post by busaholic on Apr 12, 2020 19:41:17 GMT
Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. 100 manufacturers in the U.K. each individually responded to a plea to make the necessary PPE four weeks ago and none of them received so much as a reply - how do you explain that? Can we imagine if we now had a Labour government that failed so lamentably, criminally so imo, and the outcry there'd be in the media, and doubtless from you, and quite rightly so? Matt 'Hapless' Hancock must go, and should have been removed three weeks ago, but who's to do it now with our incapacitated so-called 'leader'. Johnson/Cummings wanted as many mediocrities as possible in the cabinet so they couldn't vie for power, so as soon as one who wasn't a mediocrity showed some independence (Javid) he had to go. HMG now equals HANCOCK MUST GO. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 12, 2020 19:52:43 GMT
I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. 100 manufacturers in the U.K. each individually responded to a plea to make the necessary PPE four weeks ago and none of them received so much as a reply - how do you explain that? Can we imagine if we now had a Labour government that failed so lamentably, criminally so imo, and the outcry there'd be in the media, and doubtless from you, and quite rightly so? Matt 'Hapless' Hancock must go, and should have been removed three weeks ago, but who's to do it now with our incapacitated so-called 'leader'. Johnson/Cummings wanted as many mediocrities as possible in the cabinet so they couldn't vie for power, so as soon as one who wasn't a mediocrity showed some independence (Javid) he had to go. HMG now equals HANCOCK MUST GO. That's the first I've heard of that so I can't answer that question but I doubt very much if the situation would be any better under a labour government, in fact it would probably be considerably worse, and Matt Hancock is clearly a convenient scapegoat. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 13, 2020 9:02:04 GMT
Absolutely agree, Keir Starmer's remarks are spot-on. Hancock's remark would have been crass and insensitive from a newly-elected backbench MP, but for the Health Secretary himself to come out with it is beyond belief and once again shows how inept this Government's handling of the crisis has been. I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to be hospitalised, I hope you will make a full recovery. I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. I actually think that Keir Starmer has been very restrained through all this. His criticism was very specifically about Matt Hancock's statement, was entirely justified and was far more than political point-scoring. Keir Starmer is not alone in having criticisms of the Government handling of the coronavirus crisis. Criticisms are coming from senior members of the medical profession including Sue Hill, vice-president of the Royal College of Surgeons and Professor John Ashton, a former public health director (source: BBC News Online). Back in March the senior political correspondent of The Times wrote a d*mning article about 10 Downing Street and when Dominic Cummings basically accused him of lying, the Editor of The Times replied with a scathing leader which said that Boris Johnson would be held responsible if the NHS collapsed. And this is The Times! Also weighing into the fray is John Apter, the chair of The Police Federation, who has branded "constantly changing advice, a lack of guidance and mixed messages" to officers on the frontline of the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic "a disgrace". A statement on the Police Federation website reads: "During the last week we have seen conflicting advice issued to police officers by the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) about the use of Personal Protection Equipment (PPE), based on information and advice it has received from Public Health England (PHE) and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). In the space of a few days the advice in relation to PPE has changed four times. [ my emphasis] This resulted in the totally unacceptable position of different chief officers following different advice, thereby creating a postcode lottery of safety for police officers, dependent upon what force they were in." There is plenty of criticism out there if you look for it. If you choose only to listen to the Government you will only hear what they want to tell you. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 13, 2020 9:24:39 GMT
I'm afraid I see things rather differently. I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that Keir Starmer is trying to score political points out of this even though he claims he isn't. Of course it's the job of the opposition leader to keep the government under scrutiny but I fail to see how his criticisms were in any way helpful. It's inevitable that there are going to be shortages of PPE given the massive world wide demand for it, I don't recall the labour party pledging to invest vast sums of money in PPE at the last election, because obviously nobody could have possibly forseen the situation we find ourselves in now. The government appear to be doing everything possible to get PPE manufactured as quickly as possible with Burberry for example churning it out and if Mr Starmer has any better ideas for producing PPE now might be a good time to reveal them. Matt Hancock could perhaps have worded things a bit better but my partner works in the NHS and coincidently so does my ex wife and I have heard a few stories about some of the waste that goes on. At the moment we need everybody to be pulling in the same direction, there will be plenty of time later for questions and recriminations, in fact some people think Mr Starmer still has some explaining to do over the failure to prosecute Jimmy Saville on his watch at the CPS. I actually think that Keir Starmer has been very restrained through all this. His criticism was very specifically about Matt Hancock's statement, was entirely justified and was far more than political point-scoring. Keir Starmer is not alone in having criticisms of the Government handling of the coronavirus crisis. Criticisms are coming from senior members of the medical profession including Sue Hill, vice-president of the Royal College of Surgeons and Professor John Ashton, a former public health director (source: BBC News Online). Back in March the senior political correspondent of The Times wrote a d*mning article about 10 Downing Street and when Dominic Cummings basically accused him of lying, the Editor of The Times replied with a scathing leader which said that Boris Johnson would be held responsible if the NHS collapsed. And this is The Times! Also weighing into the fray is John Apter, the chair of The Police Federation, who has branded "constantly changing advice, a lack of guidance and mixed messages" to officers on the frontline of the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic "a disgrace". A statement on the Police Federation website reads: "During the last week we have seen conflicting advice issued to police officers by the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) about the use of Personal Protection Equipment (PPE), based on information and advice it has received from Public Health England (PHE) and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). In the space of a few days the advice in relation to PPE has changed four times. [ my emphasis] This resulted in the totally unacceptable position of different chief officers following different advice, thereby creating a postcode lottery of safety for police officers, dependent upon what force they were in." There is plenty of criticism out there if you look for it. If you choose only to listen to the Government you will only hear what they want to tell you. Yes there is plenty of criticism and whilst some of it might be justified some of it is just political point scoring. This is obviously an unprecedented situation and there is no reference book to refer to and some decisions and legislation (re the police federation) is having to be made on the hoof and inevitably mistakes will be made. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 13, 2020 9:43:58 GMT
I actually think that Keir Starmer has been very restrained through all this. His criticism was very specifically about Matt Hancock's statement, was entirely justified and was far more than political point-scoring. Keir Starmer is not alone in having criticisms of the Government handling of the coronavirus crisis. Criticisms are coming from senior members of the medical profession including Sue Hill, vice-president of the Royal College of Surgeons and Professor John Ashton, a former public health director (source: BBC News Online). Back in March the senior political correspondent of The Times wrote a d*mning article about 10 Downing Street and when Dominic Cummings basically accused him of lying, the Editor of The Times replied with a scathing leader which said that Boris Johnson would be held responsible if the NHS collapsed. And this is The Times! Also weighing into the fray is John Apter, the chair of The Police Federation, who has branded "constantly changing advice, a lack of guidance and mixed messages" to officers on the frontline of the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic "a disgrace". A statement on the Police Federation website reads: "During the last week we have seen conflicting advice issued to police officers by the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) about the use of Personal Protection Equipment (PPE), based on information and advice it has received from Public Health England (PHE) and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). In the space of a few days the advice in relation to PPE has changed four times. [ my emphasis] This resulted in the totally unacceptable position of different chief officers following different advice, thereby creating a postcode lottery of safety for police officers, dependent upon what force they were in." There is plenty of criticism out there if you look for it. If you choose only to listen to the Government you will only hear what they want to tell you. Yes there is plenty of criticism and whilst some of it might be justified some of it is just political point scoring. This is obviously an unprecedented situation and there is no reference book to refer to and some decisions and legislation (re the police federation) is having to be made on the hoof and inevitably mistakes will be made. It is inevitable that some mistakes will be made. Equally if there had been better use of the time and the warnings from other countries to plan more effectively for a predicted crisis, there would be less decision-making and legislation "on the hoof". To me this is about more than mistakes, it is about systemic failure throughout the Government's response to the crisis so far. I know you do not agree. |
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Post by 725DYE on Jun 25, 2020 14:22:46 GMT
Rebecca Long Bailey has been appointed shadow education secretary - wise for Keir to give big jobs to both his leadership rivals. Knew it wouldn't take long.... what an absolute fool she is. www.thenational.scot/news/18542011.rebecca-long-bailey-sacked-row-israel/ |
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