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Post by 725DYE on Oct 30, 2020 0:30:35 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn would better off splitting with Momentum into a separate party, taking a few Labour MPs with him and extreme left which is destroying everything the Labour Party is supposed to stand for. It’s so obvious this is where the division lies in the Labour Party and until Starmer is able to weed that out he cannot rebuild the party and eventually the red wall. He would be best allowing them to leave and rebuild a better Labour Party without the toxic extreme left Momentum. He still has enough time before the 2024 election to do this and bring the party back to a centre-left stance. I am not a labour voter but I do think the tories need a credible opposition to keep them in check and to hold them. accountable. I agree with this partially. While I am a Labour supporter I don't think they're fit to govern while the hard left have any momentum. But then the issue you face is the new hard left party effectively splitting the national Labour vote. Even within London it could cause a division with places such as Islington North/South, Hackney etc all more likely to vote with the new left party while areas such as Barking, Vauxhall, Camberwell/Peckham will probably remain with the traditional Labour Party. If Starmer can get Labour's poo in order and the Tories continue to fumble, then the parralels between now and the political scene of the 1990s will be incredibly similar. I don't see a Labour victory parralelling that of 97, however. In fact, I don't see any party getting near that any time soon. The south east simply is not in reach like it was back then. The Liberals have the best chance of undercuttimg the Tories in places like Guildford, Esher, Wimbledon, Carshalton and Winchester among others.
Let's not forget the SDP breakaway from Labour in 1981. I find it hilarious that almost 40 years later there is consideration for the same happening yet this time the roles have been swapped. The far-left breaking away from the centre to moderate left.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2020 0:49:00 GMT
I agree with this partially. While I am a Labour supporter I don't think they're fit to govern while the hard left have any momentum. But then the issue you face is the new hard left party effectively splitting the national Labour vote. Even within London it could cause a division with places such as Islington North/South, Hackney etc all more likely to vote with the new left party while areas such as Barking, Vauxhall, Camberwell/Peckham will probably remain with the traditional Labour Party. If Starmer can get Labour's poo in order and the Tories continue to fumble, then the parralels between now and the political scene of the 1990s will be incredibly similar. I don't see a Labour victory parralelling that of 97, however. In fact, I don't see any party getting near that any time soon. The south east simply is not in reach like it was back then. The Liberals have the best chance of undercuttimg the Tories in places like Guildford, Esher, Wimbledon, Carshalton and Winchester among others.
Let's not forget the SDP breakaway from Labour in 1981. I find it hilarious that almost 40 years later there is consideration for the same happening yet this time the roles have been swapped. The far-left breaking away from the centre to moderate left.
I think the Lib Dems are done and dusted now, their votes seem to come from the fact a lot of their MPs are good constituency MPs as opposed to people actually voting for the Lib Dems as a party. I think should Labour move more centre then a lot of Lib Dem voters will just split themselves between Tory and Labour. Jo Swinson and Nick Clegg both did a really good job of making the Lib Dems from being a major player to completely irrelevant within a few years. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Oct 30, 2020 10:54:15 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn would better off splitting with Momentum into a separate party, taking a few Labour MPs with him and extreme left which is destroying everything the Labour Party is supposed to stand for. It’s so obvious this is where the division lies in the Labour Party and until Starmer is able to weed that out he cannot rebuild the party and eventually the red wall. He would be best allowing them to leave and rebuild a better Labour Party without the toxic extreme left Momentum. He still has enough time before the 2024 election to do this and bring the party back to a centre-left stance. I am not a labour voter but I do think the tories need a credible opposition to keep them in check and to hold them. accountable. I agree with this partially. While I am a Labour supporter I don't think they're fit to govern while the hard left have any momentum. But then the issue you face is the new hard left party effectively splitting the national Labour vote. Even within London it could cause a division with places such as Islington North/South, Hackney etc all more likely to vote with the new left party while areas such as Barking, Vauxhall, Camberwell/Peckham will probably remain with the traditional Labour Party. I think if Starmer effectively pushes the non hard left agenda, or just keeps the hard left in check so they don't do anything silly then they might eventually die down to a point it can be controlled like in the Blair era. The issue we have there is that it's heavily dependant on the tories shooting a lot of own goals in the meantime, which they actually seem to be doing. With the labour party I think the reason why people are not feeling confident with them anymore is because of the divide that has been laid bare for people to see. Look at the way Diane Abbott was treated and Dawn Butler for instance, from time Boris was able to speak on those things before Keir Starmer was able to say anything says a lot about him. Even the tories don't respect Starmer as a worthy opponent. The labour party really does need to be stripped down and rebuilt from scratch before people can take them seriously again. With the tories there's conflict but they know how to hide it within the party but I still dislike the tories with a passion and this year has fully proven it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 11:16:02 GMT
I agree with this partially. While I am a Labour supporter I don't think they're fit to govern while the hard left have any momentum. But then the issue you face is the new hard left party effectively splitting the national Labour vote. Even within London it could cause a division with places such as Islington North/South, Hackney etc all more likely to vote with the new left party while areas such as Barking, Vauxhall, Camberwell/Peckham will probably remain with the traditional Labour Party. I think if Starmer effectively pushes the non hard left agenda, or just keeps the hard left in check so they don't do anything silly then they might eventually die down to a point it can be controlled like in the Blair era. The issue we have there is that it's heavily dependant on the tories shooting a lot of own goals in the meantime, which they actually seem to be doing. With the labour party I think the reason why people are not feeling confident with them anymore is because of the divide that has been laid bare for people to see. Look at the way Diane Abbott was treated and Dawn Butler for instance, from time Boris was able to speak on those things before Keir Starmer was able to say anything says a lot about him. Even the tories don't respect Starmer as a worthy opponent. The labour party really does need to be stripped down and rebuilt from scratch before people can take them seriously again. With the tories there's conflict but they know how to hide it within the party but I still dislike the tories with a passion and this year has fully proven it. This is why I think it would make sense to slightly split the Labour Party and use the 3.5 years between now and a general election to rebuild the party. Starmer needs to get labour back to its centre left Blair style politics and gain the trust back of its traditional voter rather than appealing to the radicals like momentum. Momentum is like poison within the Labour Party and needs to be handled correctly. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Oct 30, 2020 11:20:03 GMT
With the labour party I think the reason why people are not feeling confident with them anymore is because of the divide that has been laid bare for people to see. Look at the way Diane Abbott was treated and Dawn Butler for instance, from time Boris was able to speak on those things before Keir Starmer was able to say anything says a lot about him. Even the tories don't respect Starmer as a worthy opponent. The labour party really does need to be stripped down and rebuilt from scratch before people can take them seriously again. With the tories there's conflict but they know how to hide it within the party but I still dislike the tories with a passion and this year has fully proven it. This is why I think it would make sense to slightly split the Labour Party and use the 3.5 years between now and a general election to rebuild the party. Starmer needs to get labour back to its centre left Blair style politics and gain the trust back of its traditional voter rather than appealing to the radicals like momentum. Momentum is like poison within the Labour Party and needs to be handled correctly. Knowing the way Starmer acts he hasn't done much to give many people confidence. If he was stern with his views and knew how to fully defend himself maybe people would take him seriously, but now I think it's too late if he was to try and do something now the damage has been done. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 12:29:04 GMT
This is why I think it would make sense to slightly split the Labour Party and use the 3.5 years between now and a general election to rebuild the party. Starmer needs to get labour back to its centre left Blair style politics and gain the trust back of its traditional voter rather than appealing to the radicals like momentum. Momentum is like poison within the Labour Party and needs to be handled correctly. Knowing the way Starmer acts he hasn't done much to give many people confidence. If he was stern with his views and knew how to fully defend himself maybe people would take him seriously, but now I think it's too late if he was to try and do something now the damage has been done. He doesn’t need to be stern he just needs to choose which side of Labour he wants to appeal too and it’s not a hard decision. We have over 3 years to next scheduled general election under the current laws and he’s been leader for a few months. He has the time now to overhaul and rebuild. If we were a year away than I would agree with you but there is plenty of time to do this now. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2020 12:31:25 GMT
I agree with this partially. While I am a Labour supporter I don't think they're fit to govern while the hard left have any momentum. But then the issue you face is the new hard left party effectively splitting the national Labour vote. Even within London it could cause a division with places such as Islington North/South, Hackney etc all more likely to vote with the new left party while areas such as Barking, Vauxhall, Camberwell/Peckham will probably remain with the traditional Labour Party. I think if Starmer effectively pushes the non hard left agenda, or just keeps the hard left in check so they don't do anything silly then they might eventually die down to a point it can be controlled like in the Blair era. The issue we have there is that it's heavily dependant on the tories shooting a lot of own goals in the meantime, which they actually seem to be doing. With the labour party I think the reason why people are not feeling confident with them anymore is because of the divide that has been laid bare for people to see. Look at the way Diane Abbott was treated and Dawn Butler for instance, from time Boris was able to speak on those things before Keir Starmer was able to say anything says a lot about him. Even the tories don't respect Starmer as a worthy opponent. The labour party really does need to be stripped down and rebuilt from scratch before people can take them seriously again. With the tories there's conflict but they know how to hide it within the party but I still dislike the tories with a passion and this year has fully proven it. No one deserves abuse but equally Dawn Butler & Abbott can not play sympathy cards when they were perfectly happy working for a pro IRA, Hamas loving leader especially the latter who has been at Corbyn’s side since the 60’s & 70’s in both work & personal circumstances. David Lammy is another one as well. |
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Post by richard on Oct 30, 2020 12:36:29 GMT
With the labour party I think the reason why people are not feeling confident with them anymore is because of the divide that has been laid bare for people to see. Look at the way Diane Abbott was treated and Dawn Butler for instance, from time Boris was able to speak on those things before Keir Starmer was able to say anything says a lot about him. Even the tories don't respect Starmer as a worthy opponent. The labour party really does need to be stripped down and rebuilt from scratch before people can take them seriously again. With the tories there's conflict but they know how to hide it within the party but I still dislike the tories with a passion and this year has fully proven it. No one deserves abuse but equally Dawn Butler & Abbott can not play sympathy cards when they were perfectly happy working for a pro IRA, Hamas loving leader especially the latter who has been at Corbyn’s side since the 60’s & 70’s in both work & personal circumstances. David Lammy is another one as well. I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2020 12:40:31 GMT
No one deserves abuse but equally Dawn Butler & Abbott can not play sympathy cards when they were perfectly happy working for a pro IRA, Hamas loving leader especially the latter who has been at Corbyn’s side since the 60’s & 70’s in both work & personal circumstances. David Lammy is another one as well. I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. I haven’t watched it but I feel very uneasy about this situation where it seems in vogue to call police racist. No matter what institution you have, you will always sadly get a minority who genuinely are racist but I’m not convinced the police as a whole are racist - they’ve come a long way since the days of Thatcher when the police really were racist as a whole. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2020 12:44:02 GMT
No one deserves abuse but equally Dawn Butler & Abbott can not play sympathy cards when they were perfectly happy working for a pro IRA, Hamas loving leader especially the latter who has been at Corbyn’s side since the 60’s & 70’s in both work & personal circumstances. David Lammy is another one as well. I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. Diane's counting habits being attacked is a bit silly, we need to grow up regarding that. Priti Patel can't count either and the fact of the matter is I don't see her getting made fun of nearly as much  |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2020 12:50:09 GMT
I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. Diane's counting habits being attacked is a bit silly, we need to grow up regarding that. Priti Patel can't count either and the fact of the matter is I don't see her getting made fun of nearly as much People probably don’t make fun of her because they instead rightfully attack here for lack of humility although she did agree with a bonkers idea of sticking incoming refugees on an island out at sea somewhere. Either way, not a fan of either. |
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 30, 2020 14:11:15 GMT
No one deserves abuse but equally Dawn Butler & Abbott can not play sympathy cards when they were perfectly happy working for a pro IRA, Hamas loving leader especially the latter who has been at Corbyn’s side since the 60’s & 70’s in both work & personal circumstances. David Lammy is another one as well. I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. The comment about Diane Abbott concerns a single television interview, after which it was revealed that she had been suffering an episode of illness linked to an underlying health condition (she has type 2 diabetes). And before you call for her to "go" (where? she's already left the shadow cabinet) remember that she has one of the biggest and most unassailable Labour majorities in the UK - she had more individual votes in the 2019 General Election than all the Brexit Party candidates combined. By all means be critical of her beliefs, actions and arguments, but you can't have legitimate politicians "go" just because you don't like them or agree with them. |
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Post by John tuthill on Oct 30, 2020 15:57:10 GMT
I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. The comment about Diane Abbott concerns a single television interview, after which it was revealed that she had been suffering an episode of illness linked to an underlying health condition (she has type 2 diabetes). And before you call for her to "go" (where? she's already left the shadow cabinet) remember that she has one of the biggest and most unassailable Labour majorities in the UK - she had more individual votes in the 2019 General Election than all the Brexit Party candidates combined. By all means be critical of her beliefs, actions and arguments, but you can't have legitimate politicians "go" just because you don't like them or agree with them. Or the fact that so called left wing socialists send their son to a public school, rather than a shi**y comprehensive in her constituency  |
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Post by MKAY315 on Oct 30, 2020 16:53:29 GMT
Knowing the way Starmer acts he hasn't done much to give many people confidence. If he was stern with his views and knew how to fully defend himself maybe people would take him seriously, but now I think it's too late if he was to try and do something now the damage has been done. He doesn’t need to be stern he just needs to choose which side of Labour he wants to appeal too and it’s not a hard decision. We have over 3 years to next scheduled general election under the current laws and he’s been leader for a few months. He has the time now to overhaul and rebuild. If we were a year away than I would agree with you but there is plenty of time to do this now. He does need to be stern with things otherwise you get taken for a ride. Where is Ed by the way? That guy hasn't been on the spotlight for a while now. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Oct 30, 2020 17:05:31 GMT
I can't stand Dawn she was basically calling the police racist in that video do you think she should stay? And Diane can't count the sooner those two go the better. I haven’t watched it but I feel very uneasy about this situation where it seems in vogue to call police racist. No matter what institution you have, you will always sadly get a minority who genuinely are racist but I’m not convinced the police as a whole are racist - they’ve come a long way since the days of Thatcher when the police really were racist as a whole. What I'm going to say is going to sound very controversial. The reason why people have lost faith in the police is because of the way they carry themselves in some areas. Institutionally there's some stuff that needs to be sorted but that's a story for another day. As for labour right now it's a sad sight to see all this unfold. |
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