|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 8, 2020 7:51:23 GMT
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. Just to follow on from that testing also allows us to see what parts of the country have been affected most (and also those affected least). Therefore if we find that some areas have hardly any cases we could have continued with the containment strategy in those areas rather than having a lockdown across the entire country, allowing part of the economy to function as normal. Of course London would still be under lockdown but even so, had the government tested everyone within the first few weeks like South Korea did, we would still be following the containment phase rather than being locked up at home. It’s very easy for me to critique the government for their handling of an unprecedented situation and I have no doubt they are doing their best with the resources available, however, they would be in a much better position to combat this outbreak had the resources not been stripped away at and run down to the bare minimum over the last 10 years. It's been a bit more than 10 years. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 8, 2020 12:54:53 GMT
Just to follow on from that testing also allows us to see what parts of the country have been affected most (and also those affected least). Therefore if we find that some areas have hardly any cases we could have continued with the containment strategy in those areas rather than having a lockdown across the entire country, allowing part of the economy to function as normal. Of course London would still be under lockdown but even so, had the government tested everyone within the first few weeks like South Korea did, we would still be following the containment phase rather than being locked up at home. It’s very easy for me to critique the government for their handling of an unprecedented situation and I have no doubt they are doing their best with the resources available, however, they would be in a much better position to combat this outbreak had the resources not been stripped away at and run down to the bare minimum over the last 10 years. It's been a bit more than 10 years. Austerity has been running for roughly 10 years just after the financial crash when the resources were cut to the bare bones by the Cameron & Clegg coalition. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 8, 2020 13:52:49 GMT
It's been a bit more than 10 years. Austerity has been running for roughly 10 years just after the financial crash when the resources were cut to the bare bones by the Cameron & Clegg coalition. Under funding of the NHS has been going on for a lot more than 10 years. |
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Apr 8, 2020 14:26:20 GMT
Austerity has been running for roughly 10 years just after the financial crash when the resources were cut to the bare bones by the Cameron & Clegg coalition. Under funding of the NHS has been going on for a lot more than 10 years. The % of GDP spent on health has been steadily increasing ... trouble is expensive medicines and treatments available on the NHS lead to people living longer needing treatments for longer. The Health service is the public spending basket case ... that will just keep spiralling out of control. |
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Apr 8, 2020 16:24:36 GMT
Austerity has been running for roughly 10 years just after the financial crash when the resources were cut to the bare bones by the Cameron & Clegg coalition. Under funding of the NHS has been going on for a lot more than 10 years. I believe the last Labour government put some gradual cuts to public spending in place and had an agenda by where it would gradually fall each year which is why Gordon Brown looked ridiculous for saying there would be a ''0% rise'' in public spending by 2013 had Labour kept the keys to No. 10. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 9, 2020 11:46:55 GMT
Under funding of the NHS has been going on for a lot more than 10 years. The % of GDP spent on health has been steadily increasing ... trouble is expensive medicines and treatments available on the NHS lead to people living longer needing treatments for longer. The Health service is the public spending basket case ... that will just keep spiralling out of control. Then we had the abuse of people using the NHS which costs millions, wasted appointments, certain senior staff getting extreme pay plus bonuses, while frontline gets peanuts. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 9, 2020 11:55:14 GMT
There was enough PPE to start with, trouble is the logistics of it, that it was stuck in warehouses, most of the usual medical delivery firms were not up to the scale of shifting it en masse, then some were also sick or isolating, it took the army to get most of it out. The next problem the world got punished with is so many products come from China, over the past few months a lot of supplies were cut back due to the epidemic they initially had.
I think the tests do nothing imo, if I already have symptoms there is nothing the test can do for me, it is not a cure. I have seen it been said so much times about testing, but really cant see much coming out of it. The one thing many countries are not doing what the Chinese did, apart from testing, is masks for the public.
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 9, 2020 12:13:47 GMT
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
You are right, if you selectively look at the evidence. There are some, and I stress some studies that show masks work. However there are also many that show the opposite. Viruses are among the smallest pathogens out there, the only barriers that would be effective are masks which have appropriate filters, the quality of these filters would need to be higher than the quality found in gas masks. If you can breathe through a mask, the chances are the virus will just as easily get through those holes. The masks are only going to be effective when the person using them is infected, coughs frequently so releases the virus mixed with water droplets which will get caught by the mask. If you are not infected then wearing a mask isn't going to do much. Another thing is you're very unlikely to catch the virus by breathing it in through the nose, the nose is the most common sight for pathogen entry to the body and there's naturally a lot of mucus membrane and lymphoid in the area to combat this. If you have already inhaled Covid-19 through your nose you're likely to get by without it causing an infection in the body. The biggest issue is it going in through the eyes, this is why you are always advised to not touch your face. The mouth is another point of entry but this is much easier to keep closed than your eyes. It's important that we do not go around spreading incorrect information here. It just increases risk on the whole. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 12:34:53 GMT
It’s quite clear that there hasn’t been enough PPE for whatever reason as many hospitals & care homes continually raise this issue almost daily - some care homes have as little as 1 days supply left which has led them to go to other sources to try and get some PPE. Testing is vital - by doing testing, it allows you to see who actually has the virus and who doesn’t as symptoms can overlap between coronavirus and other illnesses. This is especially helpful for getting key workers, particularly NHS workers, identified so they can return as quickly to work as possible. One of the issues in the NHS right now is, due to a lack of testing, many staff are off sick or isolating even though people might not have the virus which stretches the workforce. Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
My major concern with the NHS is the sheer amount of bureaucracy and senior management involvement. If the NHS cut the number of managers and administrators down it would be far more efficient and would have more cash to spend. I won’t profess to know how many managers/administrators there are to frontline staff but I can bet it is a lot. Cut them by 50% and it would help. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 9, 2020 12:53:24 GMT
Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
You are right, if you selectively look at the evidence. There are some, and I stress some studies that show masks work. However there are also many that show the opposite. Viruses are among the smallest pathogens out there, the only barriers that would be effective are masks which have appropriate filters, the quality of these filters would need to be higher than the quality found in gas masks. If you can breathe through a mask, the chances are the virus will just as easily get through those holes. The masks are only going to be effective when the person using them is infected, coughs frequently so releases the virus mixed with water droplets which will get caught by the mask. If you are not infected then wearing a mask isn't going to do much. Another thing is you're very unlikely to catch the virus by breathing it in through the nose, the nose is the most common sight for pathogen entry to the body and there's naturally a lot of mucus membrane and lymphoid in the area to combat this. If you have already inhaled Covid-19 through your nose you're likely to get by without it causing an infection in the body. The biggest issue is it going in through the eyes, this is why you are always advised to not touch your face. The mouth is another point of entry but this is much easier to keep closed than your eyes. It's important that we do not go around spreading incorrect information here. It just increases risk on the whole. But what you have said is part incorrect information. The masks can stop the spread and also gaining infection. One of the measures done in China and even in Wuhan where it started, and look at their rates now. The main reason for the mask is to stop infected people spreading it further. To say you are unlikely to catch it by breathing it in is a sick joke. This is how a lot of people have got it, or via the eyes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 9, 2020 13:25:48 GMT
You are right, if you selectively look at the evidence. There are some, and I stress some studies that show masks work. However there are also many that show the opposite. Viruses are among the smallest pathogens out there, the only barriers that would be effective are masks which have appropriate filters, the quality of these filters would need to be higher than the quality found in gas masks. If you can breathe through a mask, the chances are the virus will just as easily get through those holes. The masks are only going to be effective when the person using them is infected, coughs frequently so releases the virus mixed with water droplets which will get caught by the mask. If you are not infected then wearing a mask isn't going to do much. Another thing is you're very unlikely to catch the virus by breathing it in through the nose, the nose is the most common sight for pathogen entry to the body and there's naturally a lot of mucus membrane and lymphoid in the area to combat this. If you have already inhaled Covid-19 through your nose you're likely to get by without it causing an infection in the body. The biggest issue is it going in through the eyes, this is why you are always advised to not touch your face. The mouth is another point of entry but this is much easier to keep closed than your eyes. It's important that we do not go around spreading incorrect information here. It just increases risk on the whole. But what you have said is part incorrect information. The masks can stop the spread and also gaining infection. One of the measures done in China and even in Wuhan where it started, and look at their rates now. The main reason for the mask is to stop infected people spreading it further. To say you are unlikely to catch it by breathing it in is a sick joke. This is how a lot of people have got it, or via the eyes.
Any scientist know the last person in the world to put out a believable study is China. They have very different ethics laws there and different standards to get work published. There's an extremely high chance that the figures there reporting are really inaccurate. China seem to be including Taiwan and Hong Kong out of all their statistics, despite always fiercely claiming they are part of the country. Funny how they can turn the tables when it suits them. How on earth do you know that people have mostly been affected through the nose? There's no test for that at all. The only data we have at the moment is pure virology and it's known that the human body is extremely effective at keeping infections through the nose a minimum. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but I have spent years studying infection, of which a good deal was viruses. The information you are claiming is just not backed up and we cannot spread false information around like that. It is what leads to a greater infection rate, and which is why a lot of social media sites such as WhatsApp are now restricting the spread of information because most of it is false and is doing a far greater deal of damage than good. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 9, 2020 13:28:53 GMT
Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
My major concern with the NHS is the sheer amount of bureaucracy and senior management involvement. If the NHS cut the number of managers and administrators down it would be far more efficient and would have more cash to spend. I won’t profess to know how many managers/administrators there are to frontline staff but I can bet it is a lot. Cut them by 50% and it would help. Cut them by 50% and the NHS will fail apart, comments like that are an affront to the NHS management teams all over the country who are working flat out at the moment. |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Apr 9, 2020 14:26:17 GMT
Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
My major concern with the NHS is the sheer amount of bureaucracy and senior management involvement. If the NHS cut the number of managers and administrators down it would be far more efficient and would have more cash to spend. I won’t profess to know how many managers/administrators there are to frontline staff but I can bet it is a lot. Cut them by 50% and it would help. That is ill-informed comment, especially as you freely admit you do not know the actual numbers involved. It's all very well saying you don't need so many managers and administrators, but if you get rid of them who makes sure there are adequate medical supplies where and when they are needed; who makes sure there is bed capacity in the right places; who does the overall future planning; who makes sure the staff get paid for the hours worked, and handles all the payroll and human resource management in an organisation that is people-intensive; who handles and investigates any patient complaints and deals with enquiries into patient deaths; who makes sure that all the patient appointments are administered, admissions and discharges are handled and the patient notes kept up-to-date? And who says that some of those people are not willing and able to transfer to the front line when needed? |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 9, 2020 15:43:16 GMT
Trouble is with testing, you can test people, then they contract it the day after, unless testing was done daily for NHS staff, it is pointless imo. Because all the advice after testing is to isolate if positive, even if you isolate doesn't mean you wont get seriously ill or even worse die. It is as bad as saying do not wear masks for the general public, but then evidence shows that wearing a mask, especially those that has it, stops it spreading onto others.
My major concern with the NHS is the sheer amount of bureaucracy and senior management involvement. If the NHS cut the number of managers and administrators down it would be far more efficient and would have more cash to spend. I won’t profess to know how many managers/administrators there are to frontline staff but I can bet it is a lot. Cut them by 50% and it would help. 50%, that is way harsh. That is as bad as Fred from RBS |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 9, 2020 16:12:45 GMT
But what you have said is part incorrect information. The masks can stop the spread and also gaining infection. One of the measures done in China and even in Wuhan where it started, and look at their rates now. The main reason for the mask is to stop infected people spreading it further. To say you are unlikely to catch it by breathing it in is a sick joke. This is how a lot of people have got it, or via the eyes.
Any scientist know the last person in the world to put out a believable study is China. They have very different ethics laws there and different standards to get work published. There's an extremely high chance that the figures there reporting are really inaccurate. China seem to be including Taiwan and Hong Kong out of all their statistics, despite always fiercely claiming they are part of the country. Funny how they can turn the tables when it suits them. How on earth do you know that people have mostly been affected through the nose? There's no test for that at all. The only data we have at the moment is pure virology and it's known that the human body is extremely effective at keeping infections through the nose a minimum. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but I have spent years studying infection, of which a good deal was viruses. The information you are claiming is just not backed up and we cannot spread false information around like that. It is what leads to a greater infection rate, and which is why a lot of social media sites such as WhatsApp are now restricting the spread of information because most of it is false and is doing a far greater deal of damage than good. Well I know that is how I contracted it. Prior to being infected, I would not touch my face as you say, I had anti-bacterial sprays. I would spray down my clothes and shoes before going into house, leaving clothes etc. I was sanitising my hands all the time, washing my hands in hot water etc with soap. At my office, various people were getting ill with symptoms. The worst thing was that one of my colleagues came in to work and was "feeling hot" and a few of us were asking him if he is sure he doesn't have the virus, he was saying no. Then to make matters worse he was playing the fool joking saying he had the virus, then pretending to cough and blow in the air. There is a lot of scientific evidence posted on credible news websites over the past few weeks and even some university studies showing how the virus can be spread from through the air and breathed in. Later the same day he was ill then sweating, the next day he was sick, headache etc. fever and vomiting. The day after I started to get headaches, the day after that I was getting dizzy, then high temperature, cold shivers then started to get ill. Hence I was hardly even on here posting for almost a week. Then I ended up with severe back & chest pain, affecting my heart, taking so much pain killers, couldn't taste much and cannot smell anything. Then testing you would probably say, not much it can do. Local hospital is FULL, they can only admit me if my breathing becomes difficult etc. A few people who I know tested positive with tests and there isn't much they can do unless they have breathing problems. As for whats app & facebook, many of the crap spouted on there with conspiracy theorists and 5G I do not even read it, it is sad people just chose to now always think if anything happens there is an agenda for it.
|
|
